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Professing love for a bit of cloth doesn’t define most people’s national identity
No but it definitely covers 328m of us.
It should serve as a reminder that despite your current levels of introspection about some of the not so savoury aspects of the British Empire, rightfully not present in the curriculum, that this great nation was once a civilising force in the world.
C'mon DD you need to do better than that. Almost had me.
My favourite place to see the Union Flag is on the roof of a Mini. (and the rear light clusters).
I chuckle every single time I see one as it’s basically the Germans trolling.
Cracks me up every time. I wonder if there is an alternative cluster available with the indicator and tail light arranged either side of the fog /reverse light.
I want to keep “supporting” both flags to show that they are not the exclusive possession of rabid racist Brexit loons, but I’m aware that having them on our kit, or flying in the garden, does leave you open to the automatic assumption that you are.
I genuinely feel sorrow at this.
C’mon DD you need to do better than that.
Gimme a break. I’d only had one coffee. 😀 🇬🇧
4th july … stars n stripes
14 july … tricolore
A team goes on a good run in the football/rugby/cricket world cup … their flag
etc
Yeah, I'd do this too, and would have the Union Flag, (isn't the term Union Jack somthing to do with it being flown on boats? Anyhoo, I digress) on days when there was no other countries national dates to celebrate. But the missis isn't keen.
There is an erroneous myth that has built up that it is only the Union Jack when flown on a ship, but this is wrong, even the Admiralty said so...
Yup. See my post on p1
yes we did some bad things in the name of empire but also some good things
Yeah I mean, people hate on the Nazis but they had great uniforms.
I really want a Hugo Boss suit.
I don’t see much to be proud of with the UK right now – sure, some standouts like NHS staff and the good Captain Tom, but the contrast with 2012 is stark, an unstoppable slide to the right led by a narrow-minded nationalism with the Union flag front and centre.
It makes me very sad.
To be honest you need to get out more and give social media a rest. More than likely your friends aren't how you portray the UK.
It's clear that everytime one of our great BAME athletes drapes themselves in the flag it is changing what it means, who it represents, and gives clear signals that there is a better future for all that call the UK home. It's still work in progress but it's not what you portray
some of the not so savoury aspects of the British Empire, rightfully not present in the curriculum, that this great nation was once a civilising force in the world. And that plenty of it is still thankful for that
Dear god, where to start!!
I grew up in Glasgow. After living in Yorkshire for years I realised why I felt nervous every time I saw a Union Jack - basically waiting to see if it was all going to kick off.
I associate it with sectarianism and Brexit has probably just reinforced that with a whole new sort of secular sectarianism.
some of the not so savoury aspects of the British Empire, rightfully not present in the curriculum, that this great nation was once a civilising force in the world. And that plenty of it is still thankful for that
"that this great nation was once a civilising force in the world." WOW! Must. Not. Get. Triggered.
Can you just like... clarify what you mean by civilising force in the world?
Yup. See my post on p1
Sorry, skimmed past it! Annoys me when people jump from first post to reply with information that's already been given, especially when it's wrong so I shall now go and iron my head like a bad house elf.
To be honest you need to get out more and give social media a rest.
Now that I DEFINITELY agree with! 🙂 Not so easy at the moment, though....:(
More than likely your friends aren’t how you portray the UK.
It’s clear that everytime one of our great BAME athletes drapes themselves in the flag it is changing what it means, who it represents, and gives clear signals that there is a better future for all that call the UK home. It’s still work in progress but it’s not what you portray
Maybe it IS a social media thing, and I accept that, as much as my individual view of the world looks *like this*, other people may see it *like that* and the only difference between us is perception and opinion. But it just seems like there's such division and intolerance out there - how much work has been done to counter racism, and STILL Marcus Rashford and other footballers get racist abuse, you have the BLM marches which were overwhelmingly peaceful and the next week London shuts because it's full of thugs desperate to kick off with the police, you talk about BLM online and people tell you it can't be supported because it's Marxist and wants to cancel the police. I dunno - I look back at *dons rose-tinted specs* 2012 and there was such unity and joy in the country, it felt. Now we're 9 years further on, people are outraged - outraged! - that the BBC want to cancel Land Of Hope And Glory at the end of the proms, they're outraged at the idea of revisiting our history and reconsidering whether we SHOULD have statues venerating people who profited from the slave trade, and if you're not fully, positively behind Brexit then you're a lefty hand-wringing bedwetting remoaner. We've got a government that are frankly dishonest, corrupt and incompetent, who want to slash the aid we give to poor countries and those in need, we've a Home Secretary who is nudging right up to the line of persecuting refugees, and I think to myself - this is not a country I feel particularly proud of, right now.
The Union Jack is indelibly linked to the British Empire.
The British Empire, like most empires, was based on supremacism - the belief that English/British/Saxons were superior to other peoples.
That's what was used to justify slavery, invasions, the plundering of resources etc.
Over the years that basic belief has become more nuanced but it has never gone away.
It was a belief held by one of the most revered figures in British nationalism - Winston Churchill.
It's what drove much of the Brexit campaign - we're better than them.
Even the bright, shiny Britpop stuff of Tony Blair was based on the basic idea that Britain is the greatest, most creative etc.
There's fundamental toxicity to British nationalism and that's represented by a flag.
To be honest you need to get out more and give social media a rest. More than likely your friends aren’t how you portray the UK.
It’s clear that everytime one of our great BAME athletes drapes themselves in the flag it is changing what it means, who it represents, and gives clear signals that there is a better future for all that call the UK home. It’s still work in progress but it’s not what you portray
Very valid point - it's a question of perspective and lived experience I know, but there's a colossal amount of good people doing great things in this country that get overshadowed by idiots being arseholes.
More than likely your friends aren’t how you portray the UK.
Isn't this true for all of us? Haven't the events that have occurred since 2012 taught us that "our friends" are not as representative of the UK population as a whole as me might have once believed?
Well played deadlydarcy, you've reeled in quite a few!
the Union Jack should be regarded as the National flag
I suppose the 'jack' part is simply descriptive of the thing that we use as a flag - in the same way that the Welsh Dragon isn't an actual dragon or the Rising Sun isn't actually a giant sphere of plasma.
Can you just like… clarify what you mean by civilising force in the world?
I think the idea was the we invade other civilized countries (and pretend that they weren't civilized because they were the wrong colour) and cause a few years/decades/centuries of chaos, plunder and genocide, before leaving them with railroads and cricket. What's wrong with that? Oh, and then pretend it never happened and ask why everybody hates us.
There are apparently only 22 countries in the world that we've not invaded at some point. I haven't checked on that fact, btw!
Well played deadlydarcy, you’ve reeled in quite a few!
If by reeled you mean outed himself as a closet racist, then yes bravo.
If by reeled you mean outed himself as a closet racist, then yes bravo.
It's worse than that, I think he's just blown his cover!
Would it spoil the fun to point out that Darcy is Irish?
At the risk of stereotyping the Irish aren't known for being the biggest fans of the British empire.
I fear my assimilation has gone too far!
Only came here for the Eddie izzard sketch.
Do think the Lego version is better.
Off to watch death star canteen next
Jeff Vader?
Who?
You mean Mr Stevens?
Would it spoil the fun to point out that Darcy is Irish?
Notvreally no, posting shite still means its shite even if you try and hide behind, its a joke or trolling.
Name me a country that doesn’t have a chequered past.
Ilkeston CC is currently Cycling Weekly “Club of the Year” for all our great work with the club and community
Your new club kit looks great, our club was discussing it the other day on our club chat. I ride with South Normanton CC.
Notvreally no, posting shite still means its shite even if you try and hide behind, its a joke or trolling.
Agree. im out. this is going to become a pointless "debate."
Your new club kit looks great, our club was discussing it the other day on our club chat. I ride with South Normanton CC.
Nothing to do with me, I can assure you, but I'll pass that on 👍
Agree. im out
As, it appears, am I! 😃
It's a tricky one, isn't it.
A nation's flag is an icon representing that nation. And as flags go, there's fewer as iconic as ours. No-one should feel uncomfortable about flying their own country's flag.
But. It has been hijacked. You see a flag in someone's front garden and your immediate thought - or at least, my immediate thought - is "why?" England flag = "racist". Union [Jack | Flag] = "I'm not racist, but..." (EU flag = "best friend must be a glazier".)
And really, that's a terrible place for us to be. To my mind the rot was setting in for the England flag when I was a kid in the 1970s, the SGC being appropriated by people who think "England" has three syllables (and ironically probably don't know what a 'silly bull' is). It's represented wilful othering for as long as I can remember. But how did we lose the Union Flag? Have we, even?
Careful, now.
Name me a country that doesn’t have a chequered past.
Switzerland? Famed for neutrality, chocolate and novelty clocks, they haven't shown up to a war armed with non-locking pocket knifes for a couple of hundred years. Also, their flag is a big plus.
Name me a country that doesn’t have a chequered past.
Or, turn that around, name a country that has a worse record than Britain. We're in a very select group.
Name me a country that doesn’t have a chequered past.
I'm not sure about that, but Croatia has a chequered flag
On the flag/ jack thing - all flags flown from a jack staff are jacks. Union flag jack is hard to say and Union Jack rolls of the tongue better.
I do find the connotations of the flag awkward and would not display it when abroad because of this. Perhaps what we need is a new flag for a clean slate for what we hope to be... oh hang on.
Also, their flag is a big plus.
It is very positive isn't it.
Name me a country that doesn’t have a chequered past.
Wales.
Mainly because it has never had the powers needed to do bad stuff.
Not sure why we should be felt to be embarrased by it. Why do we have to be the only nation on earth that some feel should be embarrassed by ourselves
we shouldn't be the only nation on earth that some feel should be embarrassed by ourselves.
Plenty of other, predominantly European countries have horrific pasts in terms of slavery, colonialization, massacres of black and brown people. Plenty of countries should be embarrassed for their present too. Probably doesn't help that what we see in the media is always the tips of the spectrum.
Hand wringing lefties, trying to scrub out or attone for crimes of other people, in other times held to other standards, or the Hoolingan/Daily heil dullards who seem to be proud of it.
I like to think the wide majority of people can take a passing interest in history, make a critical assessment of it, recognize that a lot of what we have as a nation is built off the back of bad stuff some people did, and move forward as a civilization.
I've got no time for flag waving myself. Its absurd to assume form of superiority based on Geography
While we are at it, Jerusalem, as a sporting song. Always tickles/grinds my gears in equal amounts to see it sung be flag waving loons.
Its a critique on the absurdity of empire, colonialism and nationalism. Probably the last song that should be sung waving a union flag.
Switzerland?
We'll ignore all the harbouring of Nazi gold etc during and after WWII and the fact it is essentially the money laundering centre for a host of very dodgy organisations and regimes shall we? 😉
Also the considerable financial and economic support given to the nazi regime right up to the very last days of the war, the mistreatment of allied prisoners by a supposedly neutral nation, and the obstacles put in place at every opportunity to prevent plundered wealth being returned to its rightful owners families...
I’m not sure about that, but Croatia has a chequered flag
Very good.
I give you... North Brabant...
...and... rather more fetching... Antwerp...
