[Closed] The trial of Anders Breivik

Awwwwwwwwww, binners you big meanie.

People are allowed to have differing opinions, you know? You're getting confused again. What you're thinking of is fascism.

Which, if I'm honest, is disappointing at this juncture, as up to then you'd been coming across as reasonable and thoughtful. Especially about the tigers. A much under-utilised tool in the armoury of the criminal justice system

I am appalled that the Norwegian authorities have failed in their responsibilities to the international community and have allowed Breivik a platform to promote his views globally. He might well be just one individual but his views will have significant support among the far-right throughout the world.

Pretty much my view - we have given him a platform when everyone knows he is guilty as charged..it is a show trial and rather than the state doing it he is doing it...It is not great idea IMHO and he has already published a huge manifesto. Re the Guardian quote - it is hardly surprising the media gave a quote supporting the views of the media.. I have no idea what the consensus view is re the survivors or those directly affected.

hope that the media also gives an opportunity to interview Hora and Derek, on the courtroom steps, arguing the relative merits of being thrown out of a window, or eaten by tigers

hora - Member
If someone disagrees with you in person do you keep at them until they change their opinion to yours?

Hello hora, we've never met but well said anyway, oh and how do you do by the way..

As to 'them' we've committed that fateful error of 'being wrong on the internet' it'll keep em going for days..

Even though in my instance I've been polite enough to acknowledge I accept their views and understand it is so much better to publicise and endlessly discuss a mass murderer such as this than the simple expedient of dealing with him in similar vein to the manner in which he despatched his victims..

But then that is the Socialist Society Leftist way, unless you keep fear of the bogey man present, you cannot justify government, nor the huge expense of it...

oh good a circular argument

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwww bless. The 'special' children have gravitated naturally to one another. Play nice now boys

Special children?

derekrides - Member

But then that is the Socialist Society Leftist way, unless you keep fear of the bogey man present, you cannot justify government, nor the huge expense of it...

What tosh.

Hang on a minute? Someone agreeing with you? Hmmmmmmmmm. Very suspicious?

Have you stopped taking your medication? Is this schizophrenia live on the internet? Actually.... reading 'both' your posts, that would explain a lot

I reckon they are two new Elfin identities.

But then that is the Socialist Society Leftist way, unless you keep fear of the bogey man present, you cannot justify government, nor the huge expense of it..

The state [ government] existed due to the King [often to simply provide a military army for said monarch ]- I am pretty sure the monarchs were not socialist lefties judging by the way they amazed wealth and power in the hands of a hereditary peerage

Could you expand on your reasoning please as to your claim [ it seems to be right wing rhetoric that is very poorly thought out - you will be telling me that America - biggest army spending in the world are a bunch if lefty socialist no doubt or perhaps using an explanation involving Tigers?

Special children?

Lifer - Member

What tosh.

Sorry chap you are wrong, fear is what drives all governments of left or right persuasion, it is fundamental to their existence, dates right back to feudalism. It also drives economies, it is driving our economy right now, do you really think we are at that huge a risk of terrorism at our airports for example.

The 'war on terror' if it really were a war it wouldn't have been that difficult to win now would it?

We are all constantly manipulated and fear is an essential ingredient of society, always has been and always will be.. So simple solutions are too cheap, far better for long drawn out wealth and job creating ones.. Oh and of course humanitarian, lets not forget that..

Wow, I stand back and applaud the way big hitters are revealing themselves on this thread

[img] [/img]

The Norwegian authorities aren't giving Breivik a platform they are exposing his deluded fascism to the world in the hope of demonstrating where it can lead.

In the same way that 9-11 essentially ended Irish terrorism hopefully exposing Breivik for what he really is in the full glare of an open media will actually set back the facist cause.

Groups on the fringe of respectable politics with a thinly veiled (very thinly in the case of some) ultra right wing / facist agenda will be forced to moderate their views in light of Breivik actions as they know that openly fascist views will not be tolerated.

What do you think this trial will do for the ability of the likes of the BNP and EDL to raise funds?

It's a lot easier to deal with something like that if you dismiss it as the work of 'madness' or 'evil' rather than confronting the scary proposition that someone in possession of all their faculties can commit these horrific acts. And helps to dehumanise the perpetrator so calls for 'elimination' or 'termination' (ie killing) are more palatable.

It's clear to anyone that in the common use of the word anyone who could do something like he has is "bonkers". I'd be more interested in what led him to his views and actions though.

The 'war on terror' if it really were a war it wouldn't have been that difficult to win now would it?

Why is that exactly ?

Utter genius! I bet you've even missed the irony of that clip haven't you? You really couldn't make it up 😆

derekrides - Member

"Lifer - Member

What tosh."

Sorry chap you are wrong, fear is what drives all governments of left or right persuasion, it is fundamental to their existence, dates right back to feudalism. It also drives economies, it is driving our economy right now, do you really think we are at that huge a risk of terrorism at our airports for example.

So not the 'Socialist Society Leftist way'?

I reckon they are two new Elfin identities.

He might not have been to everyone's taste, but please, credit him with a little more intelligence...
(edit) And can we have more tiger based solutions, please.

Once again the Big Hitters flounce in to ruin what could have been an interesting thread rather than the usual hair pulling handbag slinging nonsense it becomes.

A lot of mountain bikes getting dusty in garages

[img] [/img]

9-11 essentially ended Irish terrorism

Edit: and it certainly wasn't cutting off (cough) the oxygen of publicity from Gerry Adams, having closed Diplock Courts, internment (imprisonment without trial) and allowing the police to bang up people who "obviously done it" (Guildford 4, Birmingham 6) that did it!

Lifer - Member

So not the 'Socialist Society Leftist way'?

Well if I'm not mistaken Norway is a Socialist Society is it not? I could be wrong, but were the kids killed not members of the very leftist party our esteemed and now famous 'hero' eliminated? Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this.

Now I'm not saying the 'right' are not equally bad ( in truth I have a tendency toward anarchy personally, I think in this enlightened and better informed electronic age it could serve us better than our current Governmental systems) but they do things slightly differently and I wouldn't be so crass or insult your intelligence by suggesting the difference to you, I'm sure you are already very aware.

[b]I could be wrong[/b], but were the kids killed not members of the very leftist party our esteemed and now famous 'hero' eliminated? Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this.

derekrides - Member
Well if I'm not mistaken Norway is a Socialist Society is it not? I could be wrong, but were the kids killed not members of the very leftist party our esteemed and now famous 'hero' eliminated? Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this.

He didn't 'eliminate' them he 'killed' them.
Why is it ironic that they want to 'understand' him?

Or rather why are you so against people trying to learn something from this tragedy that could prevent something similar happening again?

Ironical they now want to try and 'understand' him, such is the naivety of the 'left' in matters such as this

No, it didn't. Good Friday agreement and the decade of unglamorous negotiations with and between terrorists did, followed by the terrorists' political wings absolutely nuking their support bases with ineptitude in government and splittism.

I know that negotiations were well under way and that the Good Friday agreement had done a lot of the groundwork but the IRA were still procrastinating over decomissioning their weapons.

After 9-11 all but the most vehement of hardliners knew that the gun had to finally be removed from Irish politics. Terrorism was the dirtiest word on the planet at the time and this and the fact that the IRA's North American funding stream was effectively over brought the peace process in Ireland to a faster swifter resolution than it would have otherwise.

But this is all a bit OT

BigButSlimmerBloke - Member

Why is it ironic? They are simply bigger, better people than some halfwit with a gun.

Well there once again I have to say is where we shall have to beg to differ.

[i]"oh he's killed some of us and our kids.. lets try to understand him and why..." [/i] FFS and that's not the blackest irony? Or is that just plain naive. I'm not going to say stupid, I'm assuming it is grief warping the judgement of whomever it was that gave that quote, I'm sure whoever it was there are four or five times more who would simply shoot the ****er on sight.

I think Norway is showing remarkable dignity in the way they are handling this terrible affair.

If we (and by this I mean European nations) want to see an end to white supremacism and people signing up to extreme right wing philosophies, then we need to understand why these people come to think and believe what they do. Is it that it appeals to people who are already a bit unhinged (like Breivik possibly is) or does the participation in it unhinge people and make them start thinking stuff like it's OK to massacre people who don't believe the same thing? There's a lot of brainwashing particularly of young people that goes on in these sort of groups.

they want to prevent it happening again Derek why is that stupid?
Your assessment of what they want to do is a lazy and stupid caricature of their goal and even you know this.They want to prevent it happening again and believe the best way of doing this is to understand his motives. It may not work but it is more likely to work than your throw him out a 3 rd story window approach.

I'm sure whoever it was there are four or five times more who would simply shoot the ****er on sight.

konabunny - Member
So just to be clear - in this case the dudes referred to above who actually went through being shot at and having their neighbours killed are the naive ones, and you're the well-informed one?

Stockholm Syndrome or some variant, ironical it is their close neighbours that gave title to that psychological phenomenon. Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

"oh he's killed some of us and our kids.. lets try to understand him and why..." FFS and that's not the blackest irony? Or is that just plain naive. I'm not going to say stupid, I'm assuming it is grief warping the judgement of whomever it was that gave that quote, I'm sure whoever it was there are four or five times more who would simply shoot the ****er on sight.

They're just better, more rational people than you.

Or perhpas the fact that they have not had their values distorted by decades of right wing press revelling in scary stories allows themto see it all a little more clearly.

Norway has a very different and much more successful ethos in its criminal justice system.

Just maybe its you thats out of step here Derek?

But please continue its rather amusing

Well there once again I have to say is where we shall have to beg to differ.

Don't have to beg, you're wrong, I'd say get used to it, but I'll guess you already are

What about sharks? Or dolphins. Feeding him to some sharks is a bit unimaginative, unless you did it in a sort of ironic 70's James Bond film way and had a trapdoor in the courtroom, that dropped him into a pool below. Then you could just hear his cries. But even that would look to Austin Powers maybe?

How about dolphins? The American military trained dolphins to deploy limpet mines. Surely its not that much of a leap to train them to use machine guns. Ones that work underwater. You can get those, can't you? If not, you should! Anyway.... they could release him into a fjord and give him 10 minutes head start on the dolphins with machine guns, and film it all from a mini-sub and a helicopter. Then the footage could be edited, speeded up and released on youtube with the Benny Hill music as accompaniment. I'd watch that. The Norwegian justice system needs to get with the fricking programme. Its 2012 FFS!!!

But please continue its [s]rather amusing[/s] getting to be hilarious

Stockholm Syndrome or some variant, ironical it is their close neighbours that gave title to that psychological phenomenon. Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

Au contraire Derek

binners, imagination did you say?

In Ancient Rome, Cicero defended a man accused of patricide. Cicero failed and the man was found guilty and received this punishment. He was sewn into a leather sack with a cockrel and a dog, then thrown into the Tiber.

BTW is ironic-al any relation to cynic-al?

Anyway... Hippo's? They can be right moody buggers apparently. Especially when they're not covered in mud. What about some kind of mud-deprived hippo-releated judicial sanction?

Junkyard - Member
they want to prevent it happening again Derek why is that stupid?

derekrides - Member
I'm not going to say stupid,

Junkyard you have already demonstrated lack of the ability to grasp the meanings of my posts before resulting in a ban for me I believe, now you may be a 'big hitter' here, but frankly I don't think you have the intelligence necessary to discuss stuff like this without getting upset or insulting to those you disagree with, so you will excuse me for making this the last post of yours I reply to, thanks just the same.

Stockholm Syndrome or some variant, ironical it is their close neighbours that gave title to that psychological phenomenon. Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

well as that refers to kidnap victims it would indeed need to be some variant..as you seem a an expert on psychological matters would you care to name the one you are [s]making up[/s]referring to?

why is it ironical ?

Junkyard you have already demonstrated lack of the ability to grasp the meanings of my posts before resulting in a ban for me I believe,

now you may be a 'big hitter' here, but frankly I don't think you have the intelligence necessary to discuss stuff like this without getting upset or insulting to those you disagree with,

so you will excuse me for making this the last post of yours I reply to, thanks just the same.

its not really a reply it's a refusal to reply. Surely you can support your view with just the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play? 😛

Mixtures of grief, guilt at survival, Lord knows what's going on in their heads, not straight thinking that's for sure.

derekrides - Member
I'm not going to say stupid,

"Stockholm Syndrome or some variant," not even slightly right.

Norway as a fair democratic country charges a killer with murder, he as is anyones right, pleads not guilty so goes on trial. Some of his victims being mature rational humans think that lessons to prevent the tragedy reoccouring may come out of the trial process.

How can this be "not straight thinking " Where as randomly killing people down dark alleys cos you know they deserve it is ok ??

llamas? Death by spitting?

frankly [b]I don't think you have the intelligence [/b] necessary to discuss stuff like this without getting upset or [b]insulting to those you disagree with[/b]