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"I was concentrating on the full dictionary definition of the word repulsive, rather than sticking purely to the politics Ernie"
So attacking people based on what they look like now?
Classy 🙄
Pigface - MemberI heard a bit of "call me Dave" speech, he claimed to of built 600,000 houses in the last 5 years, is this true?
No they plan to build 600k houses in England in the next 5 years - they're to be 'affordable' and only offered to first time buyers under 40 - there's been a similar thing going on (smaller scale of course) in South Wales, centred around Cardiff mostly for a while.
It will help 'generation rent' of which I am, unfortunately it doesn't quite fix the secondary issue of deposits, I personally have been offered in principle a mortgage that would be more than enough, in fact it's so large I don't think I could comfortably pay it back - but trying to find the £10k-£15k deposit I'd need whilst paying £1k a month in rent is pretty tough.
hugo - MemberThey were democratically elected. The outpouring of grief and whinging by the left is staggering.
Perhaps people like lower taxes so they get to choose how to spend their money. I know I do. In fact that's why I moved abroad.
So you support the Tories because you like their policies on taxation....in fact that's why you've moved abroad.
I don't expect Tory supporters to make much sense but that comment really is a little beauty.
We are sensitive today, aren't we petal? Are you sure you're cut out for this whole internet thing?
I wasn't referring to his looks actually. Iwas referring to what an arrogant, oily little bastard he was, and still is.
You bought the word 'Classy' up.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/29/david-mellor-apologises-verbal-abuse-london-cab-driver ]Stay classy indeed[/url]
Do you live in London Op? Boris has actually done a pretty decent job of most things
Really? Like the garden bridge, the Emirates cable car, the broken Routemaster buses, the tube strikes, the ongoing housing crisis ...
they're to be 'affordable' and only offered to first time buyers under 40
If 250K outside London is what you call affordable. So, a bonanza for developers, on top of the bonanza for folk with spare cash lying around to snap up LloydsTSB shares. Oh what a lovely country!!
They were democratically elected.
I don't get why this is relevant. Plenty of rather unpleasant people have been democratically elected in the past (Godwin's law anyone?).
No they plan to build 600k houses in England in the next 5 years -
Except, AIUI, there is no Government money for this, so they're hoping that someone else will pay for and build these as part of other developments.
was pondering similar to the OP today, would like to ask anyone who voted tory and is a pensioner and/or makes use of the NHS how they feel now?
hugo - MemberThey were democratically elected. The outpouring of grief and whinging by the left is staggering.
Perhaps people like lower taxes so they get to choose how to spend their money. I know I do. In fact that's why I moved abroad.
It's only right and proper than the electorate can, and should criticise the plans of their government - "People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Governments should be afraid of their people"
What's probably more 'staggering' to me is the way the Tories are tearing into Jeremy Corbin and the Labour party, they've gone the 'full Republican' claiming Socialism is a danger the [s]American[/s] British Way and Comrade Corbin will sell us all the Europe, but not before he's given all our money to those thieving immigrants.
Ultimately CMD did best, like all good* Tory leaders, he promises for all, but in the end - they act for the few, what they're good at though is blagging the general public that, despite their income, or their circumstances or background they're middle class
This. I tried to make this point a bit ago. The Tory genius is to convince people that they are benefiting from the nasty medicine even as the Etonians are glugging champers.
"I wasn't referring to his looks actually."
Why post a pic up then, why not just the link? Looks like back pedalling to me.
I'm somewhere in the middle between right and left, I don't have any particular views either way, but the attitudes the lefties have with their bitter vitriol and deep chips on their shoulders just puts me off leaning that way. If you could understand what these Tory bashing threads actually read like (through the permanent red mist you guys seem to have) you might understand.
Ok I apoligise for being nasty and horrid. Comes naturally to us lefties. We're so frightfully uncouth. Its the lack of educashun, see
I take it back. Tory's are all lovely. As they've exhibited so thoroughly this week. And are undeserving of such vitriol.
You've successfully defended Davids Hounour. I do hope he shows his gratitude in some suitable fashion, and not something ghastly involving his Chelsea strip
[i]attitudes the [x] have with their bitter vitriol and deep chips on their shoulders[/i]
substitute political leaning you don't share for [x]
or frankly, SingleSpeeders, Enduro riders etc etc.
was pondering similar to the OP today, would like to ask anyone who voted tory and is a pensioner and/or makes use of the NHS how they feel now?
Pensioners are doing very well, triple locked state pension annual rises, pensioner savings bond, all perks intact.
The Tax Payer's Alliance is just a bunch of arseholes with no power who would like old people to be sent to the gas chamber, but can't make it happen.
If you could understand what these Tory [s]bashing threads actually read like[/s] [u]Policies actually do to poor people[/u] (through the permanent red mist you guys seem to have) you might understand.
I'm somewhere in the middle between right and left, I don't have any particular views either way, but the attitudes the lefties have with their bitter vitriol and deep chips on their shoulders just puts me off leaning that way. If you could understand what these Tory bashing threads actually read like (through the permanent red mist you guys seem to have) you might understand.
But the endless bashing of (e.g.) Corbyn as a "terrorist sympathiser" is OK by you? Apparently you are not as equidistant between left and right as you imagine.
Sorry binners my mistake, I was sticking purely to the politics. So yeah, David Mellor was probably aesthetically objectionable. I found that gap in his front teeth and those ridiculously large glasses he was wearing in your pic quite offensive.
As I have said before, he is photogenic.
I don't seem to recall Thatcher's or Major's cabinets being this repulsive
Norman Tebbit
Totally this - Lawson and Alan Clark were pretty awful as well. To my mind it's not really 'Thatcherism' that continues to blight the tories per se it's 'Tebbitism' the "on your bike" mentality of making their own little bit of the world suit them and not really thinking in another persons shoes
[actually the Milton Friedman economic reliance "privatise and create a market" is the bit of thatcherism that should die but doesn't]
Perhaps people like lower taxes so they get to choose how to spend their money. I know I do. In fact that's why I moved abroad.
So, as a matter of interest, now you get to choose how you spend your money, how much of it do you spend on helping the sick, the elderly and the unemployed? Or do you leave that to someone else?
there is no Government money for this, so they're hoping that someone else will pay for and build these
The Private Finance Initiative (PFI) is an awesome tool for off-balance sheet debts.
Well loved and well used by those notorious Tories, Tony and Gordon...
[i]Well loved and well used by those notorious Tories, Tony and Gordon...[/i]
It was daft when they did it too.
I think the point being made is tories are folk who only think/act out of self interest
🙄 yeah of course they are nothing like a large generalisation.
whilst telling us Great Britain is brilliant.
As opposed to old school labour who are constantly apologising for GB and grumbling how poor people are. Dazh had a good analysis of this on the Corbyn thread. Blair understood it also, people want aspiration.
[i]people want aspiration[/i]
They do.
Although IDS is trying to make sure as few people continue to aspirate as possible.
'Tebbitism' the "on your bike" mentality
IIRC (even though it's 20+ years ago) that was a statement of contempt for the unemployed rather than a policy affecting them. IDS and TM actually put their hatred into policy and inflict it on real people.
IDS was on benefits and he aspired to be the owner of a multi-million pound property.
And he achieved that bold aspiration [s]when his in-laws gave him one[/s] through shear dedication, comittment and hard work
The Private Finance Initiative (PFI) is an awesome tool for off-balance sheet debts.
They're not offering any money (on or off the books), just tweaking the definitions and expecting private builders to build them....
In the key reform, ministers will change the definition of affordable housing to include not just properties for rent, but starter homes, as part of the government’s programme to build low-cost homes for first-time buyers so long as they are under 40 years old. It will mean developers will have fulfilled their obligations to a council if they build homes for purchase.Under the scheme, houses must must be 20% below the market rent and capped at £450,000 inside London and £250,000 outside.
So they just redefine 1000s of houses for sale as "starter homes" and solve the problem without actually building any more houses. A stroke of Genius if it actually worked (which it can't).
I don't seem to recall Thatcher's or Major's cabinets being this repulsive
Norman Tebbit
The problem is that Tebbit was just one individual he wasn't the cabinet.
Thatcher's cabinet also included the likes of Michael Heseltine and Chris Patten, both of whom would look completely out of place in today's Tory cabinet.
This present Tory government is significantly more right-wing than the Tory governments of the 80s and 90s.
Something which some people apparently choose to ignore because of their deep hatred of Thatcher. It's inconceivable to them that David Cameron could be more right-wing than Thatcher, despite the fact that he is.
Cameron gets away with things that Thatcher could not have got away with. Perhaps it's because she was a women. Or perhaps it's because New Labour have made the Tories not look that right-wing. I don't know. But I do know that if people looked at politics in a less superficial manner they would be aware of this obvious fact.
Perhaps people like lower taxes so they get to choose how to spend their money. I know I do.
Don't dress it up.
Money owed in tax isn't YOUR money, it's the state's. So what you're saying is that you want more money. You want others to suffer because you want more money. That's the definition of greed, and that's why they are called the nasty party.
footflaps - MemberIn the key reform, ministers will change the definition of affordable housing to include not just properties for rent, but starter homes, as part of the government’s programme to build low-cost homes for first-time buyers so long as they are under 40 years old. It will mean developers will have fulfilled their obligations to a council if they build homes for purchase.
Under the scheme, houses must must be 20% below the market rent and capped at £450,000 inside London and £250,000 outside.
Wait... Houses can be £250000- 20% above the average house price, even including London- and still count as "low-cost homes for first time buyers"? And I don't see any obligation to sell these only to first time buyers... Unless there's more to it, this isn't even pretending not to be shite.
Unless there's more to it, this isn't even pretending not to be shite
Of course. But they will say "look at us! helping everyone to be a middle class home-owner". And people will vote for them because ... well, because.
Where you can afford one of Camerons starter homes if you're on the living wage;
[img] 
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[url= http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/if-youre-a-family-on-the-national-living-wage-heres-where-you-can-afford-david-camerons-new-starter-homes--b1VsYqUHDe ]http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/if-youre-a-family-on-the-national-living-wage-heres-where-you-can-afford-david-camerons-new-starter-homes--b1VsYqUHDe[/url]
Unpleasant people elected by unpleasant people.
No difference between the evil, smallminded, petty, ignorant hatemongers in office and those who elected them, IMO.
Not Having had the swingometer re-calibrated since labours right wing leadership may skew the Tories far right etiquette, Corbyn should influence any future measurements on the far left. You would think that with one lot one way and the others another there would be a massive void in the Middle some where.
Personally I think they are all Vile creatures but given the choice I'd vote Dave over that **** every day of the week.
Standing up for what you personally believe in is fine just don't ram it down every one else's throat, say what you like about the Wary party, but who lead us down the path of War in Iraq and Afghanistan?
No difference between the evil, smallminded, petty, ignorant hatemongers in office and those who elected them, IMO.
Can't say I agree with this, whilst I think a lot of people vote on a pretty selfish basis, I can't believe that most who voted Tory are that nasty. If they are, then mankind is pretty much doomed!
You would think that with one lot one way and the others another there would be a massive void in the Middle some where.
What was traditionally Libdem territory before they commited suicide...
The people who voted for them are either arseholes or easily led.
say what you like about the Wary party, but who lead us down the path of War in Iraq and Afghanistan?
Doesn't matter. That Labour party has been slagged off plenty, the new Old Labour have given us a proper alternative. Blair doesn't make the current Tories any less scumbagnacious.
Why else vote for them?
It's not as if they've been pretending to be nice all these years.
Tories speaking to the voters that elected them and those who may vote for them in the future.
May's immigration speech deliberately mis-represented here, the Tories want controlled immigration. Then we can take the best and the brightest.
OECD statistics show just 14% of migrants in Europe (on their way to Germany, Sweden etc basically) are Syrians. Over 40% are from the Balkans and Germans have been placing them in camps for immediate deportation.
Cameron and others picked the low hanging fruit that is Corbyn's associations with terrorists and his weakness on defence and security. Corbin has no credible response to this so they'll keep at it.
DrJ people voted the Tories in in part as there was no credible alternative, they are in an even stronger position today.
The conference has laid out clearly that the Toires intend to take the middle ground, the focus on poverty is just one obvious strategy. Labour couldn't address poverty not least as they have no economic credibility
Standing up for what you personally believe in is fine just don't ram it down every one else's throat
Well said squoglybob, unfortunately that sound advice will be ignored by the Tories.
The Daily Telegraph seems to have gone into overdrive with the bollocks they're churning out.
The people who voted for them are either arseholes or easily led.
Or they believe that overall, the Tories will do less harm than a labour led overspend followed by recession, etc.
Not something I personally agree with but I've certainly had it put forward as a heart felt view by people who wouldn't particularly be harmed even if the above scenario did happen.
Corbyn's associations with terrorists and his weakness on defence and security. Corbin has no credible response to this
Cos it's not a credible attack!
molgrips - MemberCos it's not a credible attack!
That's the genius of it tbh. You can't respond to irrationality with logic, you can't counter it with facts. It's like trying to argue with a child who says there's an invisible dinosaur in their bedroom- it doesn't matter that there's no such thing as an invisible dinosaur, it doesn't matter that there's not enough room for one in their room, it only matters that they're in your face at 2am refusing to go back to bed because Jeremy Corbyn loves terrorists.
P-Jay - MemberWhat's probably more 'staggering' to me is the way the Tories are tearing into Jeremy Corbin and the Labour party, they've gone the 'full Republican' claiming Socialism is a danger the American British Way and Comrade Corbin will sell us all the Europe, but not before he's given all our money to those thieving immigrants.
I thought this was a bit of hyperbole but I just saw the speech and it isn't is it, it's exactly the message. Right down to "hating Britain". He's probably a muslim too. FFS.
It's not as if they've been pretending to be nice all these years.
But, but.....
Is this not real then?
[img] 
[/img]
I feel cheated. And used. And not in a good way 😥
You'll be telling me there's no substance to Georges Northern Powerhouse next!!!
the focus on poverty is just one obvious strategy.
By massively increasing it?
Life for a huge amount of the working poor (3 million families) is just about to get a whole lot shitter. The tax credits reforms mean that millions of the very poorest workers are going to lose a huge chunk of their income (some £1500 a year). And Georges modest 'Living Wage ' *(which actually isn't one) increases are nowhere near compensating for this
Is this a 'strategy' then? This their pitch to be the party of 'the Workers', and occupy the centre ground?
More Jambanomics? 😉
More Jambanomics?
More Jambabollox you mean.
jambalaya - MemberTories speaking to the voters that elected them and those who may vote for them in the future.
May's immigration speech deliberately mis-represented here, the Tories want controlled immigration. Then we can take the best and the brightest.
OECD statistics show just 14% of migrants in Europe (on their way to Germany, Sweden etc basically) are Syrians. Over 40% are from the Balkans and Germans have been placing them in camps for immediate deportation.
Cameron and others picked the low hanging fruit that is Corbyn's associations with terrorists and his weakness on defence and security. Corbin has no credible response to this so they'll keep at it.
DrJ people voted the Tories in in part as there was no credible alternative, they are in an even stronger position today.
The conference has laid out clearly that the Toires intend to take the middle ground, the focus on poverty is just one obvious strategy. Labour couldn't address poverty not least as they have no economic credibility
You do realise that you're not being interviewed by the BBC don't you jambalaya ?
There's really no need to regurgitate that nonsense.