[Closed] The Godfather... Dilema

Just to clarify the title - you do understand that being A godfather doesn't make you THE Godfather, right? "you come here and ask me for a piece of wedding cake, on my daughter's wedding day" and all that...

As I was never christened & don't do the religon thing, I'm a "sponsor" to my sister in laws daughter.

I don't understand why those that don't go to church have their children baptised and I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.

I say this as a non-Christian who has had a lot to do with Christians and church over the years. Maybe I find it more significant an event than non-Christians who see it as one of those things that you do like getting married and having birthdays? Also, maybe a lot of non-Church goers kinda think they believe in God?

I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.

For the same reasons that most non-Christians still celebrate Xmas - it's about much more than what it originally was/is supposedly meant to be.

My friends asked me to do it because we're very good friends and it's a nice thing to involve friends in your family. I don't take any issue with it because it's nothing more than a nice thing to do (I'm not expected to look after the kids should anything happen to the parents - their aunt/uncle would do that) and to kick up a fuss would have been stupid and petty, frankly. If they'd asked on the basis of taking the kids in should the worst happen, I'd have been fine with that actually. I wouldn't have agreed in the unlikely event that there had been a requirement to bring them up through the church system because that would be silly considering my own position.

I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.

Cant you get over yourself and think a little outside of the box? Take what Clubber has said and think it over maybe..

As a non-Christian I could not say what I am supposed to say at a baptism as a parent or God father. Other people aren't so conscientious and that's there problem but doesn't mean I get why.

So don't say it (ok, this won't work if you're the only god parent) - or at least not the prayer bit. In fact, thinking about it, that might be what I did. I don't ever do the prayer bit if I'm in church - just sit up and keep quiet. Though really, if I had do I wouldn't have much of an issue. It's just words and the great bit about being non-religious is that I only have to justify my conscience to myself...

If you're asked by a non-Christian to be a God parent then I suppose it doesn't matter as it's all a sham anyway. I suppose the thing is atheists would want to stick to what they believe and refuse to go along with this sort of thing whilst agnostics - are most of us agnostic to some degree? - might be happy to join in.

scotia you have an odd attitude always telling people to think etc

Im a godfather to the child of one of our best friends, and i never even thought about the religious side of it. Before you accept it maybe have a think..

the thing is atheists would want to stick to what they believe and refuse to go along with this sort of thing

No. You're wrong. Atheists can do what they want. There are no rules. If they chose to go to church every week and play along despite not believing a word of it because they enjoyed it then that'd be fine.

Of course, just as there are religious fanatics, there are atheist fanatics who like to tell you how you have to behave. They're arguably even worse than religious ones.

If you're asked by a non-Christian to be a God parent then I suppose it doesn't matter as it's all a sham anyway. I suppose the thing is atheists would want to stick to what they believe and refuse to go along with this sort of thing whilst agnostics - are most of us agnostic to some degree? - might be happy to join in.

Without adding too much fuel to the fire Dawkins calls himself an agnostic. Mainly because you cannot prove a negative (i.e. you cannot prove that something does [b]not [/b]exist, only that it does). Like me he's agnostic about the christian gods the same way that he's agnostic about Zeus etc.

I was asked to be a godparent and responded that as long as the kiddie was within reach (they've now moved to the other side of the country) then I would teach it about all religions and none so it had a broad view of belief and bollox to the church rubbish. When it grew up it could decide for itself. I went through with the ceremony but crossed my fingers when it got to the god rubbish. 😀

What really got me though was that the parents were simply getting the child christened because the families would like it and it was 'the done thing'. They were atheist themselves but had to have the big church wedding and all the bells and whistles. If I were a christian I'd find that quite demeaning.

Saying that, they have wound me up recently (christians, that is). Just come back from Keswick on holiday and the place was crawling with them (some sort of conference). Kumbya morning, noon and night!

No. You're wrong. Atheists can do what they want

They can do what they want but they aren't being true to themselves which in turn could/should lead others to doubt their integrity IMO.

Junkyard - Member
scotia you have an odd attitude always telling people to think etc
Im a godfather to the child of one of our best friends, and i never even thought about the religious side of it. Before you accept it maybe have a think..

Perhaps as it was you who failed to think about the religious side of being a GODparent perhaps it is you who needs to go and have a think?

Junkyard...what i mean was that i never let the fact that i am not religious cloud my judgment on whether or not i'd accept to be his godfather. The friends in question dont have any request that i do anything in the way of teaching religion so i dont think it needs to be even brought up. I believe that you are stuck a bit with a name..

maybe my attitude in telling people to think is a bit strange, but often on here alot is said without thinking..

Sorry but no. I can say and do whatever I want since I don't have to justify it to a higher power and certainly not your or anyone else's views. If I choose to go along with a religeous ceremony then I can do that. I'm being true to myself. I know what I believe, my friends do and I'm not making a big song and dance about something inconsequential. That's exactly who I am and so I'm being completely true to myself. Maybe you like to make a big fuss about your atheist 'beliefs' so that's what you have to do to be true to yourself I guess. Seems silly to me but then if were all forced to agree we'd call that a religion 😉

Maybe I'm assuming someone who states that they are an atheist wants to be perceived as such and not just an agnostic. BTW, I am agnostic and don't want people to think I am something I am not - that's integrity to me.

I've been asked by both friends and family to be a godparent, and in each case I've been incredibly flattered, but declined. I think that to make solemn vows about bringing up the child in the ways of the church, vows that I have no intention of keeping, in front of people who believe those vows to be important, is at the very least incredibly disrespectful.

Interestingly, those that asked me that actually knew why they were getting their child christened understood and accepted why I declined. And I'm still a part of their children's lives, and in some cases will be their guardian should the worst happen.

[i]What really got me though was that the parents were simply getting the child christened because the families would like it and it was 'the done thing'. They were atheist themselves but had to have the big church wedding and all the bells and whistles. If I were a christian I'd find that quite demeaning.[/i]

Exactly

[i]I don't understand why those that don't go to church have their children baptised and I don't understand why anyone would ask a non-Christian to be a God-parent and I don't understand why a non-Christian would want to be one.[/i]

Agree with that. Have turned down offer to be a godparent (I think it was my brother's kid) for that reason. And I can't stand being in bloody churches, so why should I go through one of those bullsht ceremonies? Yeah, maybe I should "get over myself", whatever that means.

Sorry but no. I can say and do whatever I want since I don't have to justify it to a higher power

I've been asked by both friends and family to be a godparent, and in each case I've been incredibly flattered, but declined, for exactly that reason.

Thats very good, well done you win a prize.

My case is exactly the same as clubbers above - have i been bad in the eyes of the lord?

Including standing in the house of the deity you don’t believe and telling it and its followers that you will bring a child up in their ways...yes you can openly lie if you choose too. Why would you ? Why would your friends want you too?

Technically, I don't think I did actually say the words but even if I had since pretty much everyone there knew me well and knew full well that I was a hethen who'd been to church about three times before (the parents' wedding being one of them where I was best man) I just don't have an issue with it. Lying, yes I guess technically but the great thing about not being tied into a religion is that I can define for myself what I think is reasonable. You may or may not agree but clearly plenty do and as such I don't think I'm way off centre on this.

I didn't think it was nice or reasonable to say no to being godparent to my close friends who were keen for their close friends to be godparents since the act of going to church just isn't a problem for me as a one off and especially since for most of us there I reckon, the religion was largely incidental - it was about welcoming the kids into the world.

[i]My case is exactly the same as clubbers above - have i been bad in the eyes of the lord?[/i]

I think your missing my point. I don't believe there is a lord, but there are plenty of people that do, and they are quite entitled to that opinion. I'm talking about not being disrespectful to their beliefs and not being hypocritical regarding my own. And, as someone has said, basically not lying.

[i] since for most of us there I reckon, the religion was largely incidental - it was about welcoming the kids into the world.[/i]

And there's no other way of doing that than a sham-religious ceremony?

Probably so but that's not what the parents wanted. Clearly those of us there were able to put our friends first since we didn't have any major issues with it. I guess maybe we should have heeded our consciences and insisted that the parents do what suited us better.

[i]Probably so but that's not what the parents wanted. Clearly those of us there were able to put our friends first since we didn't have any major issues with it. I guess maybe we should have heeded our consciences and insisted that the parents do what suited us better. [/i]

I never suggested that you should. I just don't understand why you'd actually take an active part in a ceremony for a religion of which you are not a member, indeed one you actively believe is nonsense.

I think a lot of this comes down to people thinking that Christianity is their de facto religion because they are (generally) white and British, even though they do not actually have 'faith'. So they get married in churches, have their children christened etc because that's what you do, rather because that's what they believe.

No doubt that's a part of it for many.

I've explained. I took part because my friends wanted me to and I had no issue doing it. It was a really nice day as it happens.

I have not read the whole thread but another aspect is if like me you are not baptised / christened you cannot be a godparent.

As I said earlier I am a [i]godless[/i] parent to several children in that if anything happened to the parents I would take the kids. they also had official godparents who were at the christening but would not have been in a position to take the kids.

You're wrong TJ - I am 😉 maybe I'm not supposed to be.

I can't actually believe that many agnostic people are so petty and small minded that they refuse their friends requests. My father did the same to his sister years ago, he's a big Dawkins fan, an extremist agnostic I like to call him.

My wife and I are godparents and agnostic, we had no problem in going to the church and going through the ritual to please our friends, there is no comeback, their god isn't going to strike me down (I dont think ;-)) and its a nice day spent among friends in a nice building.

your [s]lack of principles[/s] flexible morals makes you an ideal candidate for any parental role 😉

I'm an Atheist. I will not tell lies about my opinions and cheapen them by being a hypocrite. I would expect the hypothetical friends in this scenario to respect my honesty.

They might also need to think about what the child would get from me in the future once it starts asking questions about it's parent's preferred superstition...

Edit: although obviously, if they are of the "we're just doing this so we can get the kid into a "CofE school"-type, then no doubt that wouldn't be a concern, but that's not enough to encourage me to hypocratise.

The only circumstances in which I'd say something like "I believe in god" would be if I was in immediate danger of torture and death if I didn't.

[i]I can't actually believe that many agnostic people are so petty and small minded[/i]

Go on, I'll bite. I don't think that having respect for the religious beliefs of others, and a desire to not be a hypocrite, is particularly petty.

[i]we had no problem in going to the church and going through the ritual to please our friends[/i]

If your friends were truly Christian, and were having their child(ren) baptised to bring them into that faith, why did they ask you if they knew you did not share that faith? That goes back to my "do people actually think about why they're baptising their child' point"

[i]its a nice day spent among friends in a nice building[/i]

And that's absolutely the reason why one should choose to have one's children baptised.

do find it odd how many non believers view honesty as petty.

Where have I been dishonest?

There are non-religious alternatives right? Like marrying in a stately home or registry office? Not so common I guess but still.

BTW, the God(less) parent thing is a bit odd to me in terms of taking care of the kid if the parents die - you can have just the same sort of thing without all that ceremony malarkey and indeed I'm not aware of any legal status associated with it.

Ooh some people getting worked up about this, I guess it's not black and white but many shades of grey, summarised thusly

1. Rampantly religious types
2. think religion is fairly benign and like to think their chosen deity exists
3. "WGAS?"
4. Don't like the sound of that much
5. Rabidly atheist

Anyone in 2-4 are the ones saying don't worry about it turn up and do your thing, the 1s and 5s who take it all very seriously (nothing wrong with that) and say no don't do it.

for reference I'd say I'm a 2 but I seem to be heading down that list.

Happy to have flexible morals in this instance, no god to judge me, didn't hurt anyone 🙂

[i]Where have I been dishonest?[/i]

I'm not sure whether that's aimed at me or not, but during the ceremony did you partake in vows along the lines of these (quickly Googled, but illustrate the point):

Do you reject the devil and all rebellion against God?
Parents & godparents : I reject them.

Do you renounce the deceit and corruption of evil?
Parents & godparents : I renounce them.

Do you repent of the sins that separate us from God and neighbour?
Parents & godparents : I repent of them.

Do you turn to Christ as Saviour?
Parents & godparents : I turn to Christ.

Do you submit to Christ as Lord?
Parents & godparents : I submit to Christ.

Do you come to Christ the way, the truth, and the life?
Parents & godparents : I come to Christ.

If so, did you mean what you said?

Wiki

Christianity

Traditionally, godparents were informally responsible for ensuring the child's religious education was carried out, and for caring for the child should they be orphaned. Today, the word godparent might not have explicitly religious overtones. The modern view of a godparent tends to be an individual chosen by the parents to take an interest in the child's upbringing and personal development.[1]

sorry junkyard, tiger et al, maybe my friends are of the more modern idea? I hope this doesnt offend either you, your fellow believers or 'him upstairs'

in the french part of switzerland at least, this take on 'godparenting' is very common.

I said it, didn't mean it, see Donks post. I'm a WGAS, whats the comeback, god doesn't exist.

You're clearly a 5, and they are as worrying to me as the number ones.

No, IHN, I don't think I did as it happens as I said earlier but even if I had, I still don't think that playing along with a ceremony makes you a liar. That'll be the pragmatist in me but I can accept that some more idealistic sorts disagree but still struggle to see why it really matters.

If I was standing up in court and told lies that'd be different. If I told my friends that I'd look after their kids but actually wouldn't, that'd matter. Saying some words that in the exact meaning of them have no consequence that the people around me know are just that doesn't matter to me.

Exactly why is a view held and supported by cogent argument, deemed to be "rabid", I wonder?

sorry junkyard, tiger et al, maybe my friends are of the more modern idea?

Not sure that Wikipedia are representing the Church's opinion there. I would be interested to hear a conversation between a vicar and an atheist would be Godparent.

BTW, I don't fit any of Donk's slots - I think that people should be true to what they believe and see this as strength of character. Hard to to be strong though.

Saying some words of no consequence that the people around me know are just that doesn't matter to me.

This begs the question: Why are any of you doing this, at all?

You're clearly a 5, and they are as worrying to me as the number ones.

Exactly why is a view held and supported by cogent argument, deemed to be "rabid", I wonder?

Because as I said, it's effectively a welcoming ceremony for the kids. My friends are Christian and so it took the form of a christening. They're not so blinkered as to insist that all their friends are Christians so were perfectly happy to take a pragmatic/realistic view of it all and involve the people that matter to them.

Of course, by the sounds of it, you'd prefer that they took on the ultra orthodox type view and refused to involve anyone who doesn't share their beliefs which frankly I find suprising.