[Closed] The European experiment is over.

Best I spend my pile of Euros then!

Next year they will discuss it and absolutely no references or sourcing to anyone German at all
Is this usual for City AM ?

Yes, I think the Eurozone experiment was a big mistake! We don't need a common currency for trading between European countries. Fluctuations in currency rates are a bit of a pain, but not enabling individual countries to set their own interest rates has been a disaster.

As EU tax payers not part of the Eurozone, the UK is still supporting the failing countries in the EU. We are still part of it! Pro European people will come on here and bang on about how trade with Europe is vital to our economy, but we don't have the Euro, so why does there need to be a common country? I am not anti-Europe, i'm anti bureaucracy!

We have enough unjust disparities within our own backyard (Scottish getting free prescriptions, no student fees etc). Then there's the basket cases of Europe that the rest of us have to pay to support; 43% of working people in Ireland don't pay any income tax whatsoever! WTF! Who does pay their share of taxes then? YOU do! Greece, Prtugal, Spain and others. All broke!

The notion of a federal Europe was commercially niaive and a total waste of money. It's also damaging to Europe's competitiveness with all the ridiculous red tape Brussels imposes on us. All we need is a chamber of commerce for the EU zone which ensures that the continent thrives as a result of inter-country trade links. Let each country govern itself, but whilst maintaining diplomatic links.

In essence the parliament in Brussels needs to be hugely cut down to size and the currency of each EU Zone country restored.

With any luck, we'll get some cheap holidays in the Eurozone when the value of that currency falls out of bed. 🙂

Your right Spongebob, but since no one votes for Euro MP's nothing will happen to change that. We moan about our MP's and the media exposed the various scandels they are involved it, but it doesnt seem to happen for the European ones.

Turkeys dont vote for Xmas, so I wont expect anything to change, unless several of the poor EU members goes bust.

True, we don't get told anything about what is happening in Brussels. I suppose out government doesn't want to ruin the illusion that they are in control.

And yes, several of the EU members would be bust if it wasn't for EU tax payers (us) bailing them out.

Like we haven't got any problems of out own!!

Can someone please explain who supports the IMF?

unless several of the poor EU members goes bust

Watch this space. Its not just the smaller economies that are basket cases. Spain defaulting could be next on the Agneda. And not even Germany has the spare resources for a bail-out if that happens.

In which case it'll all implode like a pack of cards. Thus rendering all the previous squillions poured into propping up the previous basket-cases utterly redundant

Try this then.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/nigel-farage-european-parliament-euro-game-just-who-hell-do-you-think-you-are-you-are-very-d

The European experiment is over

Come on, it's just an opinion piece from a presenter nobody's heard of. A rather fluffy and fact-free piece at that.

No, what will happen is Germany will be forced to prop up these failing economys - by invading. Its the financial equivalent of WW2.

but since no one votes for Euro MP's nothing will happen to change that

Germany invading 🙄

The European experiment is over.

I'm not sure the whistle has gone yet but it's in injury time

Two things
1 - according to the internet, next year, germany will "start to talk" about leaving the Euro. not now, not yet, but sometime in the future we can exclusively reveal. Hardly means it's all over now when for all I know that's just the financial equivelant of the Daily Mail

2 -

Yes, I think the Eurozone experiment was a big mistake!

I think the fact that the other economies of the world have been completely untroubled by global financial instability is a huge indicator that the Euro is finished.

Spongebob - Member
...We have enough unjust disparities within our own backyard (Scottish getting free prescriptions, no student fees etc).

No that's just. Our government is different from yours.

Just make sure you tell your government that's what you want.

Is the euro really a failure? Its still a lot stronger against the pound than when it was introduced so what does that say about the pound?

The mistake is in allowing the free trade of currency, this will continue to create currency "disasters" across the world, irrespective of currency. In fact the euro zone has shown that by coming together they can share the pain.

but Putin says it's more reliable than the dollar?

No that's just. Our government is different from yours.

Just make sure you tell your government that's what you want.

The devolution experiment didn't take into consideration the needs of the English. We English aren't all power brokers in high places you know. It mystifies me why there is such intolerance of the English from others in the Union. I expect it stems from what happened a few hundred years ago. Talk about being stuck in the past! What has the actions of someone in power eight generations ago got to do with anyone alive today, let along mr average living in the south of England?

Most people are just like anyone else except English people don't have a strong sense of identity, we don't seek to segregate ourselves. This "culture" thing which is so prevalent elsewhere is just divisive.

In effect, the English are now discrimated against because we are not allowed representaion, or to even make our feelings known about the clear injusticies of the devolution experiment.

But UK tax payer supports whatever your government decides. We paid a significant proportion for your expensive parliament to be set up too.

You still keep peddling this canard. The flow of money is the other way. Scottish money supports England. This is a fact.

The south east are the subsidy junkies sucking money out of the rest of the UK, Scotland is a net contributor to the UK.

Whilst some resentment is over what happened generations ago, some is over recent events where the English have asserted their dominion over Scotland and attitudes like yours - ignorant and full of bile - continue to raise hackles.

Nothing that is decided by the Scottish parliament has any cost implications for England.

As for the euro "experiment" being over.

It is not an experiment, it is remains strong and there is absolutely no chance Germany or any other country will leave it.

Just piffle

Nasty " little Englander" attitudes. Small minded and ignorant.

Spongebob - Member

"The devolution experiment didn't take into consideration the needs of the English."

It certainly did- the English have just chosen not to have a devolved English parliament. People who're unhappy about this blame the devolved parliaments for some reason, I assume because it's easier to blame someone else for your grievances.

Everyone stand back and shut up. A proper economist has arrived.

Rumour has it that Gideon has been popping round to your house for pointers TJ. Any truth in that? 😉

We need to recall some history when lookign at the European "experiement".

Britain is, rather like states like Congo, somewhat presentational in its self styling: Congo is the Deomocratic Republic of, although it is no such thing; Britain is allegedley great, in spite of an empire that finally ceased in the late 1940s.

Over the centuries, Britain has variously fought with several European states. the simple reality was that, in order to maintain otherwise naturally weak trading routes, it has been essential for Britain to ensure that no other nation within Europe becomes too strong.

So, the same game applies now, though nations tend to rely less on gunpowder, and more on complex economic structures.

Ergo, the "experiment" is nothing of the sort: it's just more of the same.

The south east are the subsidy junkies sucking money out of the rest of the UK, Scotland is a net contributor to the UK.

So what? You don't think the proceeds of British industry should benefit all the people of Britain, then?

Elf - I just think the truth should be told.

You still keep peddling this canard. The flow of money is the other way. Scottish money supports England. This is a fact.

The south east are the subsidy junkies sucking money out of the rest of the UK, Scotland is a net contributor to the UK.

Can you back this up TJ?

You still keep peddling this canard. The flow of money is the other way. Scottish money supports England. This is a fact

Even if it were, has it always been that way ? I doubt it, but now it suits to jump ship............

With friends like that................

Elf - I just think the truth should be told.

So do I. North Sea oil and gas is a British industry; the people of Cornwall have as much entitlement to any proceeds as anyone is Scotland. It's British oil and Gas, not Scottish. Like the Cornish fishing industry provides food for the whole nation, not just Cornish people.

Take away oil and gas from the 'Scottish' economy, and what's left? Some nasty itchy wooly jumpers, a bit of Whiskey and a few Haggises.

Your parliament was designed by a Catalan. Although I suspect he'd spent some time with some of the locals sampling the local beverages, by the looks of things:

[img] [/img]

I mean, come on; it's a bit rubbish, isn't it? And it's falling apart. And it cost what, almost eleven times the original estimate???

Look, beautiful (designed by Englishmen that's why) and built propply:

[img] [/img]

I win because picture is more beautiful.

Elf - the oil actually is Scotlands legally - same as most of the gas is Englands. The north sea oil fields are divided into Norwegian, Scottish and English zones.

Right!!! You can keep your bloody gas!! And your oil!!!! I'm in Bury at the moment TJ. And you can **** right off if you think you're having any of the proceeds from the Black Pudding Empire

[i]Elf - I just think the truth should be told.[/i]
Or a version of it..

BTW What happened to your referendum, when you were all going to have a chance to vote on the concept of embracing the economic nirvana of separating from the English parasites.
I thought you were meant to be having it tomorrow?

Scotland isn't an independent sovereign nation though. It's part of the United Kingdom. So, the proceeds should benefit everyone. Bit like the fishing and agriculture industries benefits everyone, even though the industries may be limited to specific areas.

In all honesty, even if they were to gain independence, Scots would only fight amongst themselves anyway.

[img] [/img]

Funny how the Scots have stopped going on about their 'aspirations' using what used to be constant references to

"strong independent nation states existing within a European framework"

I can't think why. But who were these two dynamic economies they were so keen to replicate.

Did they both begin with an 'I'?

Elf - the oil actually is Scotlands legally - same as most of the gas is Englands. The north sea oil fields are divided into Norwegian, Scottish and English zones.

So, if the Shetland and Orkney Isles voted for and declared independence from Scotland, you'd be happy to let them walk away with all the oil revenues I take it TJ?

Let alone the Northumbrian oil fields which you've illegally laid claim to (freedom for Northumbria, reinstate the independence of Bernicia and Deira NOW!)

IanMunro

The referendum was blocked by the unionist parties. Dunno what they are scared of.

Tory government in Westminster increases the likelihood of a win on a referendum. Scotland has not voted fora tory government since the 50s

AS for the money - its been this way since at least the 70s. The thatcher " economic revolution" was funded by scottish oil. She wasted all the money on paying people not to work

Scotland has not voted fora tory government since the 50s

Neither has Tower Hamlets. Or indeed loads of other places. Your point was?

(I'll ignore the bit about voting for your local MP rather than a government...)

So, if the Shetland and Orkney Isles voted for and declared independence from Scotland, you'd be happy to let them walk away with all the oil revenues I take it TJ?

She wasted all the money on paying people not to work

And the recent Labour government turned this into an art form.....

And the recent Labour government turned this into an art form.....

In what way, Peter?

So.... if you've never voted a Tory administration then you can opt for independence. My dream of the Peoples Republic of Mancunia could be a reality.

Just out of interest TJ, do you think that none of the wealth generated by... oh I don't know.... maybe the North West of England during the industrial revolution was ever used to finance other areas of the country?

Like Scotland for example?

Neither has Tower Hamlets.

Tower Hamlets is a borough within a city, Scotland is a country. Why are you comparing the two ?

And btw, the Houses of Parliament were built 3 times over budget, and completion date was over run by 20 years. Plus the geezer who designed them was influenced by European architecture.

Or the car industry in the Midlands? Or the Welsh mines?

One thing about petty, small-minded nationalists of any description - they are, without fail.... Thick as pig-****!!

[i]AS for the money - its been this way since at least the 70s. The thatcher " economic revolution" was funded by scottish oil. She wasted all the money on paying people not to work[/i]

Like I said, that's one version. Here's another from the Scotland Office 🙂

• If all North Sea oil revenues had been allocated to Scotland there would only
have been 9 years out of the last 27 when Scotland’s finances would have
been in surplus.
• Including all North Sea oil revenues the last year of surplus was in 1988-89
and since then there has been 18 years of annual deficits with Scotland’s
spending being greater than the tax raised in Scotland.
• Even if all oil revenues had been allocated to Scotland the total deficit would
have outweighed the total surplus by £20bn since 1980-81.
• The volatility of the oil price would have a severe impact on spending plans.
The halving of oil prices in the last year has had a dramatic effect on
estimated oil revenues suggesting a fall of nearly half from £12.9bn last year
to £6.9bn this year which would make financial planning very challenging.

Often skim read these topics, but this is very very funny!

Take away oil and gas from the 'Scottish' economy, and what's left? Some nasty itchy wooly jumpers, a bit of Whiskey and a few Haggises.