Thing is with wearing things "Ironically" or trying to "reclaim" them, is that you're still wearing the chosen uniform of ultra right wing American bullys. Although to be fair, how many folks would know that is probably anyone's guess. But every time you put it on...a bit of you will die.
Pedantry. Learn some.
That really isn't pedantry, it's basic bloody knowledge!
What's your point though?
What’s your point though?
Learn some history. It's important. Just because someone points something out to you that you didn't know before, doesn't make it automatically pedantry, it just means you were ignorant, now you're not. You learned something new. That's a good thing in of itself
dyna-ti
Free MemberTo me the confederate flag represents the Dukes of Hazard, and in particular Daisy Duke. 😀
It did for me too, at one point, but then I learned a bit more and painted over the confederate flag on the roof of my Ford Focus. I do still wear tiny denim shorts though
History. Learn some
Its not pedantry, it is somewhat snide and condescending, insulting almost. I assume the "some" history I should learn isn't the flags bit, since I now already know it. The trouble with history is, there is so much of it, I can't learn it all. So I will choose for myself which other bits to learn, thanks. I have to say, few, if any of them, will be flags. Chaque un a son gout.
It's not even the Confederate flag, Its the Battle flag of General Lee (ergo DoH) and was only flown by his troops until it was resurrected during the emergence of the KKK. That about covers it really.
Until the late 1979's, when the South felt a new sense of optimism when the 'peanut farmer's from Georgia was elected to office. The flag re emerged with Lynrd Skynrd, DoH and Smokey and the Bandit etc where it assumed the mantle of representing 'the rebel'. That's how we first abdpsorbed it over here, through popular entertainment.
It's interesting to note that by the time of Smokey and the Bandit 2 Burt Reynolds was no longer sporting the Confederate battle flag, the penny had dropped that inserting the flag into popular culture was probably not a very good idea. Smokey and the Bandit 2 was released in 1980, so if you're still confused as to what the flag represents then you are literally stuck in the 1970's.
Learn some history. It’s important.
I have a degree in history, will that do? I still have lots of blank spots though, as does everyone, so there's no need to be so pompous.
History. Learn some
OK. What you posted I already knew. But what I don't know and perhaps you can enlighten me on is, why does one of those flags have 13 stars and the other 14? Presumably they're representative of states a la the Star Spangled Banner so, what, did one leave or join between flags? Who's the outlier here?
(Sure, I could google it, but then we could google everything and close the forum as we've made discussion obsolete.)
I hadn't even noticed the discrepancy in stars!😐
Union Jack as well ?. Many peoples around the world did at one time view that as a flag of oppression.
Only at one time? I’m sure some/plenty still do.
It’s not even the Confederate flag, Its the Battle flag of General Lee (ergo DoH) and was only flown by his troops until it was resurrected during the emergence of the KKK. That about covers it really.
Since we're ok with a bit of pedantry, it is neither the confederate flag, nor the battle flag of Lee's army. It's the former battle flag of Lee's army. Lee withdrew this flag, replacing it with a white one at Appomattox.
That really isn’t pedantry, it’s basic bloody knowledge!
I actually already knew that about the flag of the Confederacy. But it's not terribly important, is it? I mean as also pointed out (and another historical fact I knew) the flag was adopted by racists many years after the Civil War as an explicitly racist gesture, and that's what this discussion is about.
Slightly off topic, but a huge proportion of Americans are living in a fantasy world. This guy is a federal judge.
https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1372922509008461824
https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1372919035168485386
He was told to flag up the Transatlantic Alliance:
I'm outraged that there are only 4 Union Jacks as the backdrop for the new no 10 briefing room, only a remoaner traitor would have less than 12.
So ironic coming from a party that has done so much to break up the UK.
Apologies, I was obnoxious last night, bad day. Should've gone to bed instead.
In a similar kind of way, I am finding myself torn over my favourite Fred Perry polo.
I'm sure you posted that before and again it has actual made me laugh aloud.
Why on earth would you not wear it ? That really is looking for a way to jump on a cause.
Hopefully the black and yellow ones get cheap because of folk like this and I can snap a couple up lol.
Apologies, I was obnoxious last night, bad day. Should’ve gone to bed instead.
Nice one Nick, aplogies if I responded harshly. And we all know more about flags. From now on I will never wave a flag or wear a garment without due diligence. Naked is safest I guess...
Now that I have said so, though, I also want to say that I spent every Christmas driving from Winnipeg, Canada to Brownsville, Texas to spend time with my grandparents from the age of 7 to 21. In the course of those journeys, we passed through many of the southern states, and I saw countless Confederate flags. They were just part of the landscape, and to me, they were as harmless as the Dukes of Hazard.
The sad truth is that a high proportion of those flags were probably proudly flown by racists to show their racism. As a tourist You didn't feel threatened at the time but imagine being a poor black man living amongst that. It's heartbreaking and terrifying on a level I can't begin to appreciate.
Why on earth would you not wear it ?
He already explained that. I guess you're ok with potentially being associated with a far right organisation. Mind you I've always associated Fred Perry with 'bovver boys' with racist tendencies. Maybe wrongly I dunno.
Naked is safest I guess…
At least wear a sack 😀
I can snap a couple up lol.
They’d really suit you.
Hopefully the black and yellow ones get cheap because of folk like this and I can snap a couple up
Well, you know, if the cap fits...
Oooh flags
To me the confederate flag represents the Dukes of Hazard, and in particular Daisy Duke. 😀
Dah dah da da dada da.
I think I er had the er horn on my Austin Marina but it wasn’t flagged.
Ahh isn’t it all kicking off this side, gotta have your flag and portrait of the queen an woe betide anyone commenting on it.
30 years ago I lived and studied in Mississippi. In January 2021 the state changed its flag.
Fred Perry with ‘bovver boys’ with racist tendencies. Maybe wrongly I dunno.
Skins innit,end of 70’s ,bearing in mind that a short haircut was rather daring and against the system as well.
Topped of with an ma2 or Harrington jacket an some doc m’s
It’s funny how these things stick with us throughout our lives
(I do wonder where the old people thing for too short nylon beige trousers comes from thou.)
Skinheads had an interaction with bluebeat,ska and reggae and much of the style was copied from rudeboys, real tasty geezers. A defence of imaginary communities but they weren't all racist. Nicely looked at in 'Resistance through ritual' (OU). Punk and RAR did a lot to unite youths (and subvert flags).
To cougar's point - if a massively offensive bunch on nobs co-opt the Queen's face as the symbol of their socially unacceptable cause,how long before we have to destroy all the currency and stamps? At what point do we stop?.
Equally the skins at the end were associated with racist neo Nazis but started before the mods and mingled with and borrowed from cultures around the Caribbean and Jamaica. The racists co-opted the look but the origin of it was pretty inclusive.
The Confederate flag debate, even the whole civil war discussion has been largely reduced to a north not racist, south racist. Which suits the modern desire for black and white polarised positions but ignores a lot of the facts. It's not exactly historically inaccurate but it is viewing it through a spectacularly narrow lense.
I’m now torn as to whether I should continue to wear it in public, or consign it to the back of a dusty
Blinkin 'eck, you've taken your time about it 😆 .You could say early Eighties were the time of the BNP(actually formed 1982), and the adopted look of the racist skinhead,( an persona probably more akin to the psychopathic supporter type of the Nazi party than a true Englander.) Their 'uniform' at the time was a Pilot jacket(Green or Black)Perry, skinny denims(they were denims back then, not jeans)faded patches preferred, braces also optional,14H doc martens. And there were those more working class look about some of them, usually a Perry, but more the hob nail boots and donkey jackets of the working class racist who wears his Perry on a hot day..
So you've had about 50 years or so to do it 😆 😆
if a massively offensive bunch on nobs co-opt the Queen’s face as the symbol of their socially unacceptable cause,how long before we have to destroy all the currency and stamps? At what point do we stop?.
It's not the same though - that flag is about one thing and one thing only. It's not representative of anything else.
that flag is about one thing and one thing only.
The only context I have personally seen it used in is pop-culture, specifically Dukes of Hazard and Kid Rock.
Meanwhile in NI:
https://www.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/m698lx/caught_in_my_estate_stay_classy_lisburn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
They’d really suit you.
Why is that?
Well, you know, if the cap fits…
What cap ? what do you mean ?
To be honest I find that attitude a bit pathetic, it's like saying I don't have a Nazi flag to burn but I've thrown out all my brown shirts !
I guess you’re ok with potentially being associated with a far right organisation.
Grow up, seriously, actually do grow up. Who on earth is going to associate some bloke walking about a little village in the UK with a US based far right (allegedly) political group because he has a Fred Perry on ?
I can answer that for you, no one, that's who.
s not the same though – that flag is about one thing and one thing only. It’s not representative of anything else.
Now, 1861, or somewhere in-between? What is the one thing. It's a genuine question,not a piss take
Battle Flag of the Confederacy.
History. Learn some
The ANV only become the battle flag of the confederacy in 1904. Before that there were many. The Confederate flag was also the battle flag of many of the armies of the confederacy in 1861 but quickly fell out of favour because in battle it too closely resembled the Unions take on the stars and bars.
Also the flag in your picture is oblong not square and was therefore never the battle flag of the confederacy.
History. Learn some. Not just from Wikipedia.
Well someone climbed the lamp post outside my house last night and hung a huge Union flag from it. Its aimed at catholics because of the celtic ranger game but should nicely offend the two Asian families living here as well so double hit.
How to use a flag offensively 101.
Not sure it should be banned though
should nicely offend the two Asian families living here as well so double hit.
Are they catholics as well?
The street was historically predominantly Catholic thanks to the council having loads of Catholic councilors, still a lot here and it was only a few years ago the orange flute band were stopped from pausing outside to attempt to burst their drum.
These Imbiciles still live amongst us unfortunately.
still a lot here
That’s because we breed like rabbits and are a much better ****
Lol the first part is true for sure haha.
I'm sure the second improved once I gave Catholicism up and shrugged off the guilt 😅😅😅
Who on earth is going to associate some bloke walking about a little village in the UK with a US based far right (allegedly) political group because he has a Fred Perry on ?
Last year? No-one much. This year? Hmm, not sure if you’re aware but there was an attempted insurrection and overthrow of a legitimately elected US president you may have caught something about this on the news in January.
considering the Proud Boys were fairly high profile in the ‘action’ and are likely to feature in prosecution cases in the coming months to a fair chance their profile will rise in the general public. If you are suddenly sporting an ‘affiliated’ look some might think that it’s a deliberate act and that you’re, well, you know, affiliated...
if a couple of randoms on a bike forum are twisting your melons I’m not sure you’ve thought this through properly for the real world.
Edit: plus, I wonder what the Asian families might think, especially considering the Union Flags (and recent events in Atlanta).
Would have thought that the FP 'look' was more linked to football casual thug types in this country than Proud Boys.
I’d say a lot of people bought FP’s to match their cut out wiggo sidies back in 2012.
I bought one (ironically the black and yellow one) but I avoided the ‘RAF’ one as I didn’t (double irony) want to be associated with pro cyclist dopers.
