Forum menu
And an AK for special occasions?
Expensive caliber so not sure when they use that.
There is an import ban on original AK so most of the new AKs are now made in America.
What gun issue? It is the norm there.
America has to be seen as the tough guy as they are Western democracy last resort.
I think hamdguns are more worrying than AR-15s. To think how many may be swinging around in purses or pockets with a round in the chamber, pointing anywhere. Then if they do get used, those rounds land all over the place - it's easy to shoot a rifle accurately, not a pistol.
Don't get me wrong, I still think owning an assault rifle is mad - just that pistols are a lot more dangerous and accident prone, and assault rifles shouldn't be the main focus.
God Damn
The news is on daily mail rather often.
A paper known for its factual, honest & unsensational reporting style.
You do realise quoting the Heil as your source of news renders your opinion pretty much worthless?
You do realise being chewkw renders your opinion pretty much worthless?
Please don’t feed the troll.
“They need license to carry conceal but training is individual preference.”
As I said Chewk, that’s due to change here in Texas:
Texas Republican leaders promised action on gun safety after the El Paso shooting. Instead, they passed permitless carry.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/06/04/texas-constitutional-carry-el-paso/
A paper known for its factual, honest & unsensational reporting style.
You do realise quoting the Heil as your source of news renders your opinion pretty much worthless?
Same news also appear on BBC website on knife attack but there are just more often on daily mail. Some are on video too. Worthless or just to ignore?
As I said Chewk, that’s due to change here in Texas:
Perhaps Texas but not every place.
And in the UK, this is what you are allowed to own, but unlike the US we'll have far more stringent laws on licensing.
And in the UK, this is what you are allowed to own, but unlike the US we’ll have far more stringent laws on licensing.
Yes, you can but too expensive.
Please don’t feed the troll.
This bears repeating.
And also straight pull as any thing semi-auto over .22LR is illegal.
The AR15, as a platform, is just a really poor choice for the U.K. market. It’s designed to be semi-auto, so making it into something that requires a bolt movement every shot ruins it for practical shooting and the action/platform itself is a poor choice for longer range accurate shooting. .223Rem is also a pretty crap choice for vermin as (I think) it is only cleared for Fox and muntjac/CWD.
If I wanted an accurate rifle for that caliber, I’d go bolt action with a longer barrel. If I wanted a vermin rifle, I’d go .243 or .308. Neither of those is good for home defence.
If I wanted a home defence weapon, I’d use a shotgun. Rifle calibre _will_ overpenetrate and can go through a lot of things before they stop.
If I wanted a rifle for battle (as much as I like the ergonomics of the AR and as much as I hate the ergonomics of the L85) I’d go for something that was in a bigger calibre, had a longer barrel and did not use direct gas impingement, something like the HK417 for example. Depending on the place I was in, I’d go AK. The ammunition is everywhere and cheap as hell.
TL;DR… America is a ****ed up place and people will buy AR’s because they can, even though they are a poor choice for both battle and home defence.
Guys I was working with in Pensylvania took me out one night shooting in one of their back yards. They all turned up with their arsenal and we shot the shit out of some targets. Got a shot of a magnum and an ar15. The guy that had bought the ar15 bought it because it looked cool and he seen it as an investment as thought they would get banned from sale soon. That was 3 years ago. Was a good night but scary to think that between 5 guys they had enough guns to do some real damage.
.223Rem is also a pretty crap choice for vermin as (I think) it is only cleared for Fox and muntjac/CWD.
.223 Rem is an excellent choice for vermin, and just as popular is the similar but slightly punchier 22-250. They are very much the choice of professional controllers- more gamekeepers use those calibres than any other. Accurate and very cheap to feed .
Legal for CWD and Muntjac in England and Wales, but in Scotland they are also lawful for use on Roe. Again, very popular amongst contractors and keepers.
The Gun Control debate in the US shut down when they decided not to do anything after Sandy Hook.
If a country isn't going to make meaningful change after 20 primary schools kids get shot then it will probably never make that change.
The Gun Control debate in the US shut down when they decided not to do anything after Sandy Hook.If a country isn’t going to make meaningful change after 20 primary schools kids get shot then it will probably never make that change.
Yeah but as @dannyh mentioned above, the only answer* now with that many guns in circulation is "more guns".
Load of kids been murdered at school? Employ some heavily armed guards.
Risk that a burglar is armed? Have more/bigger guns of your own.
Violent crime a problem? Arm the police force to the teeth.
*I know it's a bollocks argument, I'm not advocating it myself but it's "the answer" that is given every single time and you can sort of see the twisted logic that is behind it.
It's not too dissimilar to the ever-growing use of SUVs to ferry kids the half mile to school because it's too dangerous to walk because of all the big heavy vehicles around. Answer: buy a bigger, heavier vehicle to "protect" your little cherub.
That’s the purpose. It’s the equaliser.
You're thinking of Edward Woodward, or perhaps Denzel Washington.
It's not an 'equaliser' at all, it's a machine designed to kill people as efficiently as possible. That's way, Semi-Auto / Auto aside, that's why the US military use them.
Personally, I can't really believe a word the Gun lobby says when it comes to gun control, the argument has become so entrenched sense has gone completely out of the window. I'd like to say "sod them if they think it's a good idea" but what about the people who don't - do they have to accept mass shooting after mass shooting just so Billy Bob can sit in his shed, penis in one hand, AR in the other, wondered which is harder?
In that picture on the first page with all the guns on the decking, what's the second weapon to the left of the girl on the bike? It looks like some variety of LAW to me but surely it can't be?
It looks like some variety of LAW to me but surely it can’t be?
In theory you can own proper ones in some parts of the US but they are hideously expensive and do actually have some regulations making it hard to acquire. Probably not worth it for a single shot weapon like a LAW but for reloadable ones some do think its worth it.
So either they have managed that or its one which has been deactivated/fired/drill version.
Please remember that not everyone in the US is a gun nut - in fact most people aren't. I bet you get annoyed when Americans imagine every British person as being like the cast of 4 weddings and a funeral, don't you? Same thing but more damaging.
Imagine 5 people with machetes trying to do you harm
Why would they have machetes when guns are this easy to get? This is the much-overlooked issue.
Whenever they decide the lives of human beings are more important than the right to bear (fully automatic) arms it will get sorted.
No this completely misses the point. People aren't making rational evaluations of rights. That's not how people work. People are tribal above all else. Somehow gun-owning has become part of the idea of American-ness for some people so they join in and it becomes part of their identity. Add to this 'identity' the very popular idea of doing violence against those who you consider to have wronged you, and you get a huge gun violence problem.
I have lots of otherwise very reasonable and mild mannered Americans on my FB feed. The number of shared memes I see that variations on 'if you mess with me I will hurt you' is overwhelming, even from ostensibly peace loving middle aged people including women. That idea is woven into society. It's in so many well-loved films and TV shows from before about a decade ago, if you look. We were so used to it we didn't even notice.
I firmly believe that the US has already begun an inventible slide into a period of breakdown and anarchy and in the next 5-20 years will cease to exist as the country we know. I think it will break up and bits of it are going to fight over what remains. I know that a number of Americans have that view, and are taking "precautions". If iIlived in the US, I think I'd be looking to buy a gun and plenty of ammo.
If iIlived in the US, I think I’d be looking to
Emigrate to Canada
Emigrate to Canada
Too close.
Canadian joke: How do you get all the Canadians out of a lovely cool swimming pool on a really hot sunny day?
ChrisL
Full Member
In that picture on the first page with all the guns on the decking, what’s the second weapon to the left of the girl on the bike? It looks like some variety of LAW to me but surely it can’t be?
Looks like a deactivated shoulder launched munition, no yellow band on it would indicate it's deactivated.
Y'ALL QAEDA!
A good point about ammo - can have all the guns you want but no good without ammo. I bet some of these people ammo collections are even more impressive!
The US certainly has its challenges but I’m not sure it is going to decline that quickly, and this is not the first time such predictions have been made. The upheaval of the late ‘60s and early ‘70s resulted in many predictions of collapse. In fact if you read contemporary accounts it was almost a given that the US wouldn’t last much longer!
In fact if you read contemporary accounts it was almost a given that the US wouldn’t last much longer!
Oh sure, I think there are huge differences from then to now though, jobs, wealth disparity, healthcare etc but largely the Republicans weren't hell bent of holding onto to power by coercion rather than persuasion at the ballot box, and wasn't then beginning to define itself around "shared" heritage rather than ideas. There's a massive danger of the GOP sliding into Ethno-Nationalism and Authoritarianism and away from Conservatism.
The majority of people live safe relatively easy lives with jobs they need to go to. The elites are doing very well. These are not the ingredients for revolution.
Sunday Times a couple of weeks back had some amazing photos of US Gun owners each with 100s of guns!
That chubby little kid in house doorway is holding a bloody P90 for goodness sake. 1100 rounds per minute and a 50 round clip that can be changed in less that 3 seconds. WTAF!?!
They need bullet control not gun control. Every household is allowed 10 rounds per adult and you can't have more until it's proven that the last ones were used. Habeas corpus.
Ammo control is a goid idea. Only get 2 burglary attempts a year? Then you only need 10 rounds.
1100 rounds per minute and a 50 round clip that can be changed in less that 3 seconds. WTAF!?!
Its possibly the civilian semi auto variant. From a quick look P90s are post 1986 so cant be allowed under the exemption for existing full autos when the law restricting them got passed.
They need bullet control not gun control
Heard that before, keep the gun laws as they are, increase the price of ammo...
It’s not an ‘equaliser’ at all, it’s a machine designed to kill people as efficiently as possible. That’s way, Semi-Auto / Auto aside, that’s why the US military use them.
I have no problem with that especially in USA.
I like traditional stuff with bolt action and revolver. Manurhin MR73 anyone? (buy one if you can as the value will only go up)
Before Dunblane i knew a fair few gun owners,I can tell you they were all f** m**.
Before Dunblane i knew a fair few gun owners,I can tell you they were all f** m**.
I bet some of them can be so don't go near them.
My Texan cowboy friend hunts ... with bow and arrow ... and AR15 (They really love hunting wild boar and deer ... ffs! Poor animals)
If I wanted an accurate rifle for that caliber, I’d go bolt action with a longer barrel. If I wanted a vermin rifle, I’d go .243 or .308.
a farmer i knew in Alberta used 223 for coyotes. a 308 would blow a dog to bits. it’s the kind of round you’d use on a moose.
i used to enjoy telling him that if you want to control coyote population and stop the killing livestock is to feed them. it’s true, but he didn’t believe me.
and for home defence a semi-auto shotgun is recommended. it would ruin your walls, though.
the thing about the USA is, if someone is going to burgle your house, mug you, carjack you or anything else, they will be armed. some people feel safer also carrying a gun. it is not a good situation, but one that is very difficult to comprehend from a UK perspective.
Its a bit old but makes very interesting reading
Here's a website that shows rolling coverage of gun violence in Chicago - year to date 267 gun murders & so far in June 17 people shot & killed
Its a bit old but makes very interesting reading
They want to help the apex predator live longer and multiply more?
I think what I find so depressing about it is the words spoken by that judge. That attitude leads directly to the sad and shocking statistics in those articles.
As the old saying goes……there are none so blind as those that will not see…
eddd
Full MemberI think hamdguns are more worrying than AR-15s. To think how many may be swinging around in purses or pockets with a round in the chamber, pointing anywhere. Then if they do get used, those rounds land all over the place – it’s easy to shoot a rifle accurately, not a pistol.
If for self defence, ranges are small by definition, spaces are often small. Ease of use is really important (automatic fire will be basically a way to miss loads). But basically the only really relevant accuracy factor will be the person using it- their skill level and state of mind.
molgrips
Full Member
Ammo control is a goid idea. Only get 2 burglary attempts a year? Then you only need 10 rounds.
If you're going to be any good at it, you need to shoot it a bunch. If you ever have to use it after being wakened up in the middle of the night, most likely either shitting your pants or jacked up on adrenaline, it needs to be absolutely ingrained- not just aiming but every bit of handling. Limits on ammo in the home make tons of sense but not limits on ammo full stop.
This is one of the odd things about "responsible gun ownership", most people who say they want a gun for self defence spend very little time drilling, they often won't get any training at all. Going to the range isn't about shooting bullseyes, it's mostly just about getting competent. But there's a big mental break between "I must be allowed a gun to defend myself" and "I will do the hard work so that I can use it effectively" and people end up introducing all of the dangers into their house without necessarily gaining much or any safety. Which is how you get that woman who shot her own child while trying to shoot a puppy the other day, that kid statistically will be shot once in their life and it was by their mum. But any talk about training or competence-based licencing is always instantly screamed down. Only 7 states mandate even basic safety training.
One of the best pieces of wisdom I have been given is that, in really stressful situations, people rarely rise to the occasion. They fall back to their level of training. If you have very little training, you will not function well.
It’s why I coached so much on the range, practiced so much when I had the time and then took every opportunity to get people to understand why it was important. Mind you, back then we were going to AFG so people were a little more focussed on learning.
Devils advocate.
Guns are fun, Guns are cool. 90s Action movies prove it.
We have loads of guns here in the UK. it isn't hard to get a license, and surely the difference in potential damage done with a semi automatic 12 gauge is negligible to that done with an AR15.
Thankfully we dont get people wandering into classrooms and shooting them up. There is nothing at all stopping people doing it!
The problem (as i see it) is the American fetishisation of them. The "having one because its my right" thing, and the severely lacking attitude to "elf and safety". Toddler killing themselves or their parents have invariably found a loaded gun lying around on a coffee table, Yet we keep bleach locked away under the sink. Madness.
I almost agree that "bad guys will still get them illegally", and that wont change till there are a whole lot fewer guns floating around.
Before Dunblane i knew a fair few gun owners,I can tell you they were all f** m**.
Cool story. I grew up with teachers and associated staff who were gun owners. In Dunblane, post shooting. They were some of the best people I knew.
Conversely I know plenty of cyclists who are judgemental *****.
One of the best pieces of wisdom I have been given is that, in really stressful situations, people rarely rise to the occasion. They fall back to their level of training. If you have very little training, you will not function well.
Yep, the exact (and truthful) opposite to the idea that the only way to take down a bad guy with a gun is lots of good guys with guns who will all miraculously rise to the occasion, identify the bad guy shooter in a crowded mall with terrified punters running for cover, draw their own weapon, challenge and fire (accurately).
Have you ever tried to get a firearms license? I haven’t, but have considered it in the past. My perception is that it isn’t all that easy but maybe I’m wrong..