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Jesus, 12 years for making a mistake.
Seriously? Does that not seem a little trite to you?
Seriously? Does that not seem a little trite to you?
Well it's not the finest sentence I've ever written and I could have devoted more time to finding a better way to put it but I'm pretty sure most STWs will be able to work out what I mean from it.
The point is there was zero intent, they both got spooked and one of them fired his gun.
Poor delicate blossom - should have let him off, right?
In many states in the US, they can charge for different murder degrees at the same time. So he was charged for second, but convicted for third. From my quick read it seems, that he discharged his firearm, without getting a clear view of what was happening. Much life the cop that killed Floyd has been charged with second, but probably will be convicted of third.
His refusal to cooperate with the investigation and not wearing any body cam did not help with his situation.
His partner tried to use the "feared for his life" defense. This is basically trying to invoke the get out of jail card that cops get if they can prove at any moment that they feared for his life. Even if they got themselves in a bad situation out of their own negligence. Unfortunately I can't find at the moment any balanced/non-click bait article that explains it.
Its a really shitty situation. He got jumpy and shot his gun. However, from the little evidence there was, it seems there was absolutely no reason to get spooked. Hence the "disregard for human life".
Many of the protesters don’t really seem to know why they are there and of those that do, their position seems conflicted by their own bias.
Really, what's your evidence for that? There are tens of thousands of people protesting, and your special knowledge reveals to you that many of them don't know why they are there, and are "conflicted"?
Speaking of bias, I notice the chap in your video conveniently ignores the person who succinctly explains the difference between the Justine Damond case and George Floyd. He doesn't seem keen to engage with an opinion that contradicts his reductive argument, does he? I had a look at his "TR News" website, and it has a story about Stephen Yaxley Lennon being "arrested for doing his job", which doesn't really encourage me to take it very seriously as a news outlet. I think Yaxley Lennon gets arrested for being a racist criminal, and he doesn't have a proper job.
Oh, and when someone entitles their report "the only video you need to see", don't you automatically wonder why they don't want you to listen to any other views of the situation?
This has just developed in to middle class white guy chat hinit? Conversation here is pretty pointless tbh... the ones that have made up their mind there's no case to answer aren't going to change their minds...
I don't know the class or ethnic background of everyone on here, so can't comment on that.
I do know a crap argument when I see one.
I had a look at his “TR News” website
TR News is Tommy Robinson's "news" channel. Avi Yemini (the reporter, and convicted of assaulting his ex-wife) is just another right wing grifter.
That's the only thing you need to know about that video...
Saw what seemed to me to be a dozen EDL types defending the war memorial
Yeah, the apparently un-ironically named Democratic Football Lads Alliance have organised a protest apparently. They're going to spend just as long as it takes guarding a statue no-ones cares about; to get in the local newspaper.
Just listened to Akala's Insta chat from last night - he warned there'd be counter-demos, looks like the man was on the money again.
He also warned BLM protestors not to engage as it plays straight into the hands of of the right-wing media.
They’re going to spend just as long as it takes guarding a statue no-ones cares about; to get in the local newspaper.
Let's see how many racists complain about THEM not social distancing.
I think the debate will soon move on from the statues to address other issues. Its hard to underestimate the significance and symbolism of the events in Bristol.
If statues have become the sites where a culture war is being fought, the toppling of Edwarh Coulston into the harbour was the sinking of the Bismarck, dafacing Churchill's plinth was the scuttling of the Graf Spee and removing Cecil Rhodes will be the sinking of the Turpiz.
The big battleships will have all been sunk and as nickc suggests, the hooligans are going to be left guarding statues no one cares about.
EDIT.
Easy to underestimate!
inkster
Member
I think the debate will soon move on from the statues to address other issues. Its hard to underestimate the significance and symbolism of the events in Bristol.If statues have become the sites where a culture war is being fought, the toppling of Edwarh Coulston into the harbour was the sinking of the Bismarck, dafacing Churchill’s plinth was the scuttling of the Graf Spee and removing Cecil Rhodes will be the sinking of the Turpiz.
The big battleships will have all been sunk and as nickc suggests, the hooligans are going to be left guarding statues no one cares about.
no offence, but what the f are you gibbering about? 😆
I think he's just talking ship
no offence, but what the f are you gibbering about? 😆
He is equating taking down the statues with an ideological victory.
In his mind, and many that think like him, take down a controversial/offensive statue = advancing social justice.
That’s what I interpreted from it.
I know what he was meaning, it's a tiny part of it, but it's just indicative of how this conversation here has inserted heid up it's own arse. 😆
Well I understand Inkster and agree with him that the debate wil move on to address other issues (that need to be addressed). Gone with Wind, Old soaps, literature, comics... .
Going for the person as usual when reasoning fails you, Seosamh77. The smileys don't negate the insult.
I'm insulting the general conversation edukator, not the individual.
I'm happy for statues to come down it's not like I disagree with the point, just that making the whole thread about that, and arguing with individuals that are against it and won't ever change their mind, is an utterly pointless merry-go-round. And leads to utter irrelevances like comparing the events to ww2 events in a futile attempt to win them round.
I think facing up to our colonial legacy is absolutely part of dealing with racism in the UK
Glorifying what at best was a mixed bag of achievements & at worst genocide is shameful
But don't forget....
"At least we weren't as bad as the French or the Belgians" which is another fave of the "let bygones be bygones" brigade.
Yep, according to the Grauniad the ‘Lads’ are mobilising.
Get those flat-roofed pubs open again FFS. Give the twunts something to do.
take down a controversial/offensive statue = advancing social justice
That one symbolic act has achieved more for racial equality than the past 50yrs. It has opened up conversations about education and justice, which could be quite revolutionary.
One example for starters is that we're 21 pages in on a thread about racism and it's been largely civil and informative, I'd say that's progress.
Yes Faerie. All from a symbolic act on a symbol.
Amazing really.
arguing with individuals that are against it and won’t ever change their mind
What makes you think you are right? You have no clue if this action will matter 50 or 100 years from now, or if the impact was good or bad. We can only speculate.
This just reads like it’s you who will never change his mind.
This polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude is cancer to our modern society.
pseudo intelectual
If you're going to use that term as an insult you would be much better off spelling it correctly.🙂
baboonz
Member
arguing with individuals that are against it and won’t ever change their mindWhat makes you think you are right?
Well cause... slavery. It's the proverbial no brainer.
What makes you think you are right? You have no clue if this action will matter 50 or 100 years from now, or if the impact was good or bad. We can only speculate.
This just reads like it’s you who will never change his mind.
This polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude is cancer to our modern society.
Colston's statue is never going back on that pedestal, and it looks extremely likely it will end up in a museum with contextual information providing a much more rounded description of who he was and what he did. After years of ineffectual discussion about what to do with the statue there is no doubt this has been a significant event.
I don't understand where you are seeing "pseudo intellectualism"? Can you explain, please?
Farage is gone from LBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-53006006
"This week the 56-year-old compared Black Lives Matters protestors to the Taliban, for demolishing statues of slaves traders."
Jeez did he really say that?
I don’t understand where you are seeing “pseudo intellectualism”? Can you explain, please?
Yes, I'd simply love to see that too...
Well cause… slavery. It’s the proverbial no brainer.
Being for or against taking down a statue, has nothing to do with being pro or for slavery. Are you being silly on purpose?
There are valid points for taking a statue down, and valid for leaving it there. There have also been valid points to why a mob/protesters taking down a statue may be a bad idea or not.
Is it really that hard to understand? Do you ever question your own beliefs?
What makes you think you are right? You have no clue if this action will matter 50 or 100 years from now, or if the impact was good or bad. We can only speculate.
surely that is always the case
This polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude is cancer to our modern society.
be honest now, the Colston statue furore has done more to educate many people about slavery than any number of government initiatives
the fact that it will be moved to a museum & placed in display with placards from the BLM march, is a great victory for this 'polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude'
Babbs,
To imagine what things might look like in 50 or 100 years time you only have to look back in time using the same proportion.
50 years ago, civil rights era. Addressing segregation and denial of voting rights.
100 years ago, race riots (Tulsa, Liverpool, Cardif) jim crow introduced, a swathe of black Republican politicians re-elected. Confederal statues spring up like weeds.
150 years ago. American Civil War, predicated against the expansion of slavery into the western territories.
There's a pattern.
baboonz
Member
Well cause… slavery. It’s the proverbial no brainer.Being for or against taking down a statue, has nothing to do with being pro or for slavery. Are you being silly on purpose?
Trying to drag me in.
Pretty certain I just made it clear I'm not going to engage with fools like yourself while you attempt to grapple with the blinking obvious. 😆
surely that is always the case
Doesn't seem the case in this forum a lot of the times. The point I've failed to make, is that just because someone does something with good intentions, it doesn't mean its right or will lead to a positive outcome.
be honest now, the Colston statue furore has done more to educate many people about slavery than any number of government initiatives
the fact that it will be moved to a museum & placed in display with placards from the BLM march, is a great victory for this ‘polarising self-righteous pseudo intelectual attitude’
I've personally learned more about the history of Bristol than anything-can't speak for others, I'm an antisocial labrat. Like I said earlier, I am 50/50 regarding the statue. It is the way that it was done that I am very much against.
If you allow me to be cynical, it is my thought that the timing of this protests will backfire. Trump will get re-elected and people in the UK are too absorbed by Covid to actually truly care, or maybe I am wrong and this is the right timing, since councils can maybe now take unilateral decisions and flying under the radar.
My comment was for the attitude of the poster(not for you @inkster you're sticking to your guns, and I like it, although I wish you used the racist label less), where he was trying to dissuade a debate, because "they are not going to change their mind", after what was a fruitful discussion. We even heard from someone who his great uncle was part of the chinese revolution(hope he is not trolling), I myself am a Spanish immigrant, is this not the kind of diverse background/opinions liberals are all about? But no, the debate had to be belittled because it doesn't conform with his views.
To imagine what things might look like in 50 or 100 years time you only have to look back in time using the same proportion.
Thanks for addressing the actual point I was trying to make. I would argue that the system at the moment is not "directly" racist, AKA we are all equal under the law, this is different to institutional racism. Therefore it is time to make these changes in a lawful manner.
Considering we've had 4 years of Brexit, 'we'll fight them on the beaches' Victory over Europe Day rhetoric shoved down our throats I think the battleships analogy is fair enough.
Those who decry the desecration of statues as attacking history are those who are most likely to repeat it. The yobs 'protecting' the War memorial in Manchester would sooner join the SS than fight for liberty.
If you are 10 times more likely to be arrested and fined under lockdown if you're black, how are we all equal under the law?
Some of the 'yobs' protecting War memorials around the country are ex soldiers who don't want these memorials to be damaged...
If you are 10 times more likely to be arrested and fined under lockdown if you’re black, how are we all equal under the law?
Is it plausible that black people mainly live in cities, and in disadvantaged areas that have a higher police presence? I'm sure there is a racist/prejudice element in it, but I want to believe its smaller contributor than what the statistic suggests.
I'll be more specific, point me to a law that actively discriminates.
Some of the ‘yobs’ protecting War memorials around the country are ex soldiers who don’t want these memorials to be damaged…
I’m willing to bet in a Venn diagram of meatheadedness there’s a large overlap between yob and ex-soldier.
You can’t really be a useful soldier without having violent tendencies I imagine.
kcr
MemberColston’s statue is never going back on that pedestal, and it looks extremely likely it will end up in a museum with contextual information providing a much more rounded description of who he was and what he did. After years of ineffectual discussion about what to do with the statue there is no doubt this has been a significant event.
I actually really like what some states have done, creating sort of Gardens Of Questionable Statues- don't destroy them, just get them together so they can be seen and appreciated but also really unmissably understood for what they are.
Some of the ‘yobs’ protecting War memorials around the country are ex soldiers who don’t want these memorials to be damaged…
Key word = 'some'.
The shirt + tie + leather jacket + flat-roof local lot will be the majority.
You can’t really be a useful soldier without having violent tendencies I imagine
My son was a soldier. Get to ****.
Northwind,
Just like the Island of misfit macots in South Park.
You can’t really be a useful soldier without having violent tendencies I imagine.
Dear me. A sweeping statement that misses the mark by a country mile. Personally I've come across more poeple with violent tendancies in boring civilian jobs than I've ever encountered on an army base (I worked on one in cold war Germany and was a civilian member of a French army triathlon team). One common point though (edit: for the violent ones in either), too much time spent in pubs or bars.