Forum menu
I think it may be stretching it a bit to call an actual building "A plinth" but yeah, sugarbabes fo'shure. At least they haven't swept to the very borders of Europe raping pillaging and murdering as they went...
At least they haven’t swept to the very borders of Europe raping pillaging and murdering as they went…
Yet...
I think it may be stretching it a bit to call an actual building “A plinth” but yeah
'Fraid I ran out of vocab for a plinth 10x the size of my house.
If they state their criteria then it might turn out that we can move (say) 4 statues of little significance created after 1900 and everyone’s happy. If their criteria require 100,000 monuments moved dating back before Roman times that might be harder to do.
Here's another question I don't think you can answer.
Who do you think "they" are?
How about this monstrosity? It’s estimated he’s responsible for at least 40 million deaths…
Do you know anyone who is campaigning for it to be removed?
Who do you think “they” are?
The guys pulling the statue down.
The guys pulling the statue down.
You want a group of individual protesters (that you can't identify) who are objecting to a local statue to define specific criteria that will be used to evaluate the removal of every public statue in the country?
How about this monstrosity? It’s estimated he’s responsible for at least 40 million deaths…
I have no objection since he ruled over my ancestors but I suspect his descendants are not going to agree.
On another note a lot of advertisements on telly are also rather racists if you look at them carefully. In other part of the world our advertisements (same ads) are separated into different cultures/races and never mixed them together as that can be offensive to certain religions/race etc. In the UK the advertisements try to "social engineer" the perception of the people but what they don't realise is that they can be rather offensive to be honest. For example, old spice cologne advertisement ... yes, it is funny but many will see it differently. They should have same version of the ad but using different race rather than one race. Same with many other products ads.
In the UK the advertisements try to “social engineer” the perception of the people but what they don’t realise is that they can be rather offensive to be honest.
Do you have any specific examples of how UK adverts are racist?
Other than the Old spice one, which is apparently racist because the character is black rather than a huge range of different characters of all colours and religions.
Do you think for example the TV series Luther is racist, because they don't have a different colour actor playing the main character every week.
Was going to respond to Chewkw but thought better of it and pressed delete.
Better to imagine his words spoken by Janey Godley and mouthed by Sarah Cooper.
Farage...lol...he's back with his faux rage. I spotted my fave ever tweet about him recently:
<p lang="en" dir="ltr">If ever there’s shit to stir, guarantee there’s you holding the stick with glee.</p>— Seb Dance 🌹🇪🇺 (@SebDance) June 7, 2020
https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js
I just learned that the Kkk aren't classed as terrorists, they're only domestic extremists despite the hate and violence they perpetuate.
sugarbabes fo’shure
Are you forgetting that they changed members every fortnight? That’s a lot of statue removals right there.
In all seriousness I see nothing wrong with the pulling down of the Colston statue. A pretty powerful statement of people’s feelings.
I’d like to see this guy removed. Utter bloody menace
Sugababes
Well now, Keisha Buchanan has posted an emotional video today based on the Black Lives matter explaining how she feels betrayed by her portrayal via the media and record companies during the various iterations of the band.
However, I couldn't help struggling to see her point; she was clearly iterating a negative picture painted by the media but I'm struggling the align myself to the point she is trying to make, that it was because she is Black. I felt her descriptions of comments made about could have applied to anyone, but she says they quite clearly painted a picture of "...an angry Black Woman" which she maintained she is not (angry that is).
Its up on her Youtube channel, easy to find. I'd love someone else's opinion because I'm interested to know if my view is they way it is because I'm a middle aged ignorant white man. Frankly, I'm struggling with the education & boundaries of this one.
Maybe it is the point that Sterling made a couple of years ago. While taken individually the stories do not contain a racial element, ie "Footballer buys house for parents, what a good lad" or "footballer splashes the cash on flashy house for his mum" Over the years, white players got the former wording, black players latter, same story different twists one positive, one suggestively negative.
I dont care who the statue is. Its not important. Its the principle of a tiny minority vandalizing and destroying public property because they have decided to take offence at it
It’s perfectly clear that you don’t understand anything about Bristol, it’s history, it’s people, or their feelings about the history of their city. Therefore your opinion is worthless.
It’s up to protesters to spoon feed you with information available via a 5 second google search?
Pretty much yeah. Not much point in protesting without a clear statement of what you want.
I’m really having difficulty working out how to respond to that, without being insulting.
I’m willing to bet that Stone Henge wasn’t erected by completely willing labour
Yeah? I’m willing to bet that you’d lose. All the evidence suggests that all the monuments scattered around the British Isles, and there are likely hundreds of them, were constructed by entire communities over very extended periods of time, often involving huge feasts and celebrations, the construction methods used were sophisticated and needed teamwork to succeed.
Agree with countzero
Also look up about the fen henges, huge structures made over many generations and used for various purposes
OK, for the 3rd time for those at the back. BLM is an unorganised collective of groups and individuals
This is what scares them the most. Do a little research and you’ll see that any group which organises itself without leaders, memberships or formal structures are dismissed as anarchists, mobs, terrorists or whatever other hysterical label they can think of. The fact that people can effectively organise themselves without formal hierarchies and rules threatens the entire basis of the political system and the power held by those that control it. They just can’t get their head around the fact that people can organise themselves around collective principles or aims, and so they assume there’s a hidden group of actors with malevolent intent pulling the strings.
Exactly the same as ‘Antifa’. The ridiculous halfwit occupying the White House throne keeps ranting about ‘Antifa’, going so far as to labelling them as a dangerous terrorist organisation, directing the FBI to investigate them, blithely ignorant of the fact that he doesn’t have the power to do any such thing, and that ‘Antifa’ just doesn’t exist in any shape or form that can be considered an organisation! It’s not even really a loose coalition, it’s just a global mass of people who all agree on one thing - fascists, neo-nazis, white suprematists, etc are people with abhorrent ideas who need to be confronted about their vile ideologies and shown that they won’t be allowed to have things all their own way.
Here’s hoping that, come November, that message gets through to Angry Tinkerbell.
Blum funding: https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/16/black-lives-matter-cashes-100-million-liberal-foun/
That’s a cushy fund, weather you like it or not.
On the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not, the use invitation only Discord servers for communication. For anyone that doesn’t know discord, it’s like a WhatsApp group on steroid and voice channels.
In addition it seems their actions vary from country to country. In Stockholm they mainly come out to protest/beat-up against nazis (according to a Swedish friend). In the US its not that simple and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had caused the escalation of the protests. Calling themselves anti fascists it’s a smart of way of indirectly smearing anyone that they oppose, since they are anti-fascists.
baboonz
MemberOn the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not, the use invitation only Discord servers for communication.
So, as organised as your average online gamers then? Scary stuff!
On the topic of antifa, they may seem disorganised, but they are not...In addition it seems their actions vary from country to country.
So they are organised, but also disorganised?
So, as organised as your average online gamers then? Scary stuff!
This just shows your age and ignorance.
It’s also were young neonazis/racists like to chill, guess that’s not concerning either? In the last couple of years the use of discord has exploded. I myself am part of 7 different discord servers all for one game.
It also shows your the generalised hypocrisy since I’ve seen in this forum more than once people getting bent up about 4chan, and more specifically /pol/, an outdated more than decade old image board.
baboonz
MemberIt’s also were young neonazis/racists like to chill, guess that’s not concerning either? In the last couple of years the use of discord has exploded. I myself am part of 7 different discord servers all for one game.
So are you not concerned that you're rubbing shoulders with all these neonazis?
Honestly I can't tell if your posts are a joke
Is Antifa some sort of code word for tin foil hat?
babs - why not express your views in a form of the english language most of us can understand?
Your insults are ignorant and unnecessary; they do not help whatever line you're pushing.
Might be helpful if you sense checked before posting.
Wartime statue of Stalin? I’d vote to keep at 80 years distance with some text explaining about Stalin.
What if it was his former ally, Adolph somethingorother? Hilter? Sure, Stalin never managed the figures of the Reich or Leopold but 6m isn't exactly the sort of thing people forget quickly. Well, seemingly...
If antifa's discords are anything like the ones I'm on it'll be full of shitchat, weird porn and memes nobody under the age of 30 understands. Not got a great rep in Denmark from what I've heard.
In Stockholm they mainly come out to protest/beat-up against nazis (according to a Swedish friend).
Goodness, I wasn't expecting to be subject to such a torrent of science.
That Brizzle thang..
I was initially vaguely concerned about whitewashing but putting it in the mshed with the placards an vids seems a great idea of preserving it and the symbolism of it going worldwide should do greater good than the ‘vandalism’ act that some are banging on about(fb).
It’s got way more historic value now than it ever did.
(Which also raise’s the question about why it wasn’t whacked in a museum Years ago tbh)
I also liked banksys idea of using it in a statue with the protesters pulling it down.
Yeah? I’m willing to bet that you’d lose. All the evidence suggests that all the monuments scattered around the British Isles, and there are likely hundreds of them, were constructed by entire communities over very extended periods of time, often involving huge feasts and celebrations, the construction methods used were sophisticated and needed teamwork to succeed.
Doesn't mean the people who built it weren't forced labour.
Archaeologists in Britain tend to have quite a rose tinted view of our ancient past. Probably because they are all hand wring liberals and can't imagine that anybody might do anything nasty.
EDIT: Until of course we get into historical times when everybody suddenly gets very nasty for some reason.
So are you not concerned that you’re rubbing shoulders with all these neonazis?
Honestly I can’t tell if your posts are a joke
is that what you take from the post? My point was that discord channels whilst being for gaming, can also be used for very nefarious reasons. Weather you like it or not.
Also on the topic as your average gamers, well gamers are people, the columbine shooters where people, who also happened to be gamers. I don’t understand what gamers haas to do with anything but you brought it up.
I despise noeonazism and communism equally. Two ideologies that ruined the west and killed millions. However, being active in the internet means that you get exposed to both all the time.
Goodness, I wasn’t expecting to be subject to such a torrent of science
I thought anecdotical evidence was the STW way. If it bothers you that much ignore it. I was merely pointing out, that the actions and organisation of antifa vary from country to country.
Yeah? I’m willing to bet that you’d lose.
Nah, there are Neolithic gang neck rings (four linked together) found at votive deposits. Slaves were probs used as offerings and cheap labour taken in local disputes. One would like to think they weren't (as would I ) but the evidence is stacked against us I'm afraid.
Edit: Just checked some sources, and at least Francis Pryor agrees with me...phew.
Is Antifa some sort of code word for tin foil hat?
No just an imbecil middle class inbred child between a SHARP and an anarchist.
Terminology or English? I apologise if the posts were a bit broken.
Statute of Columbus going into the water in Byrd Park in Richmond. I have to say, I'm not getting tired of this. Also I'm am quite enjoying the use of Police language to describe what happens to the statues.
"Statue resisted, and force had to be used" etc etc
One would like to think they weren’t (as would I ) but the evidence is stacked against us I’m afraid.
I am not an etymologist but … the concepts of slavery, rape , warfare , murder etc. exist in all indo-European languages, so they have been around since at least 4000BC when proto-indo-European emerged somewhere on the steppes.
Humans are the current apex animal on this planet. They are not nice.
I wonder if there are any languages where these concepts don't exist?
Robert E Lee next?
Nah, there are Neolithic gang neck rings (four linked together) found at votive deposits. Slaves were probs used as offerings and cheap labour taken in local disputes. One would like to think they weren’t (as would I ) but the evidence is stacked against us I’m afraid.
This.
Plus we know high status people contemporary with Stone Henge lived with low status people who were unrelated. So there were at least servants. They certainly weren't paid in money because there wasn't any, so maybe they were paid in food and clothing? It's already looking like slavery. Would those people be free to go? Generally accepted as fact that Slavery will have started as soon as people started farming in the Neolithic and continued... ...well it's still going on today.
I am not an etymologist but … the concepts of slavery, rape , warfare , murder etc. exist in all indo-European languages, so they have been around since at least 4000BC when proto-indo-European emerged somewhere on the steppes.
Humans are the current apex animal on this planet. They are not nice.
Not finished it yet, but slowly ploughing through The Better Angels Of Our Nature (it's a big read!),which suggests that, contrary to popular belief, we are and have been getting less nasty as time goes on. This thread is maybe a case in point - twenty years ago, probably no-one in the UK would have heard of George Floyd. 🙁
They certainly weren’t paid in money because there wasn’t any, so maybe they were paid in food and clothing? It’s already looking like slavery.
That seems a bit of a stretch of logic.
Baboonz, you've made a spelling mistake, or are you being passive aggressive?
that the actions and organisation of antifa vary from country to country.
That's because Antifa, like BLM is an unorganised collective of groups and individuals.
I'm not sure how such funds would be distributed.
Antifa tend to be Anonymous and don't lobby, preferring protest and direct action (depending on the issue). They usually have counter protests against the EDL/SDL or support other organised socialist marches.
The socialist campaigners were asked to leave the BLM protests for hijacking the issues. POC means People of Colour, not communism.
PoC rarely come out to protest in the UK, instead a few are invited to sit on company boards and government committees; in an attempt to show that we (white people) are inclusive. There are various charities and individuals which provide community support who also lobby, writing lots and lots of emails to no evail. They will only take to the streets when there has been a serious miscarriage of justice, even then it was mainly Oyinbo who were out.
If there is formalised funding like that then why aren't they supporting Sheku Bayoh or my institutional racism case? It's only £60k to step into court for human rights or public law cases.
Humans are the current apex animal on this planet. They are not nice.
...and where did all the Neanderthals go? (I'm blaming the badgers.)
@farie
I think you have illustrated my point, actions are different depending on the country.
For example, in Spain my parents didn’t even know about them specifically, since they operate similarly to every other far left mob.
The socialist campaigners were asked to leave the BLM protests for hijacking the issues. POC means People of Colour, not communism.
That’s great news, and somewhat supports this report from a police chief in St. Louis:
That and watching the trailer on Cabrini-green makes for a truly depressive morning.
A slightly different take on public monuments:
You're still not getting my point though, even in individual countries Antifa aren't an organisation. The reason they're similar to left wing groups is because they consist of left wing groups, amongst others.
Maybe it would be easier for me to to describe them as the anarchic (anarchy doesn't mean violent) alternative to the Alt-Right. The Alt-Right are a collective of groups and individuals, such as the KKK, Proud Boys, Golden Dawn, EDL and individuals such as Alex Jones, PewDiePie, Jordan Peterson and Tommy Robinson. Whilst they have similar ideals, they are not one organisation.
is that what you take from the post? My point was that discord channels whilst being for gaming, can also be used for very nefarious reasons. Weather you like it or not.
I feel that trying to imply something about the nature or character of Antifa groups from the fact they use Discord makes about as much sense as trying to imply something about their nature or character because they use phones, or the Internet.
I read a reasonably interesting article about Antifa a day or two ago, but I can't find it now. It was of the opinion that Antifa groups tend to be small and rarely if at all organise beyond the local level (rigid organisation being antithetical to the punk culture from which they arose), but the term has been picked up by Trump and others to become the new term for "scary violent leftists come to destroy our peaceful democracy" boogeymen.
I talked about discord channels, because it’s an easy way to communicate and organise without being visible. They are widely used in gaming, because they are extremely effective at organising and communicating, and it’s free. It negates the need of physically congregating at a given place to discuss ideas.
They are no where near as organised as a terrorist cell, but I don’t think I have implied that? As I said before, the numbers they get implies some form of organisation, this doesn’t necessarily mean top-down military style way of coordination.
Organised as a local level is still organised. How hard would it be for those local level groups to talk to each other and coordinate? In this day an age, it’s almost stupidly easy.
This however does not mean that Trump overreaction was warranted.