binners - Member
.....and the north of England. And Wales. In fact, in every metropolitan area in the country outside the South East
who is your MP?
I just wonder what would have happened if she hadnt been in power, how shit the country would have been and what it would be like now.
b r - Member
right to buy council homesNope, there had always been a right to buy, just previously you had to pay the market price - what she did was gerrymandering IMO
just as Labour not putting any restrictions on the new EU eastern european citizens moving to and working in the UK was
I once met two white men in a pub in Manchester that told me that people in greenhouses shouldn't throw grenades at graphic designers.
You're the only person who could have dreamt that you sick, perverted, twisted wierdo! You make me sick!
Like I said. I woke up totally non-plussed. Why couldn't I wake up having spent a 'virtual' night with Amber Hurd? The mind is a cruel thing.
Racist!two white men
just as Labour not putting any restrictions on the new EU eastern european citizens moving to and working in the UK was
Again with the 'let's blame the foreigners'... 🙄
You are aware that the freedom to travel across borders within the EU applies equally to British people too? I expect you're going to be critical of anyone from the UK who ever works abroad...
Why do you think that these 'maladjusted girls' might have acted in such a way? Hmm? Have you actually stopped to consider that?
yep - they were mostly pretty intelligent - basically just trouble makers/bullies that had been ejected from normal schooling - liked half-inching knifes from the canteen and pulling them out in front of the teacher, hanging girls they were bullying upside down out of top floor windows, that sort of thing.
I once met a Black man in Plymouth who told me that all the immigrants are taking ur jaaabs....
and the point of that comment was???
I don't mind paying taxes to support people that fall on hard times as long as they then put a bit of effort into trying to get back from those hard times.
whereas I do mind paying taxes to people who put bugger all effort in and are content to live on benefits (or earning a good wage and claiming child benefit), which is a significant part of the population I am afraid.
Haven't got a clue B&D. I've only been there 5 minutes. Whoever it is. I DIDN'T BLOODY VOTE FOR THEM! Hang on a mo.......
*nips off to Google*
Right... its David Nuttall - Conservative. Don't blame me! I was in a different constituency at the last election. Would you class us as metropolitan, fella? I suppose so, as we're part of Bury. Should I have said 'inner city'
So TurnerGuy ... claiming child benefit while actually having children labels you a 'scrounger' in your head, does it? How very tolerant of you.
You are Paul Dacre and I claim my £5
I still remember the signs up around Chorlton (put up by the supporters of a Nurse who claimed she was unfairly sacked). Yes maybe she was. However linking herself as likened unto the Holocaust was well out of order. Is that a Chorlton-thing??
So binners, not being able to read what I actually said makes you competant to comment on it, does it?
Again with the 'let's blame the foreigners'...
Although Tony Blair and Gordon Brown are both Scottish they pass TJ's "British" test, so no, I'm not blaming foreigners
whereas I do mind paying taxes to people who put bugger all effort in and are content to live on benefits (or earning a good wage and claiming child benefit), which is a significant part of the population I am afraid.
What 'significant part of the population' are 'content to live on benefits', then? Got any figures to back such blinkered narrow-minded statements up?
Thought not.
And you jolly well have not answered the question about the 'maladjusted girls'....
And you jolly well have not answered the question about the 'maladjusted girls'....
they acted in such a way because they were smart enough to see an opportunity to exploit.
So binners, not being able to read what I actually said makes you competant to comment on it, does it?
Well, I'm not very bright, but I take it from the statement
whereas I do mind paying taxes to people who put bugger all effort in and are content to live on benefits (or earning a good wage and claiming child benefit)
you're calling people who claim a benefit they're perfectly entitled too, scoungers. But you need to be specific. You're being a bit wooly.
What do you define as a 'good' wage? Could you give me an exact figure please? then I know who I can label as decent hard-working folk, and which ones I can label 'scroungers'. And treat them with respect/disdain accordingly
So do you not think they wooduv chosen other opportunities to ensurte housing and an income then, if they were readily available?
Do you genuinely honestly think loads of teenage girls deliberately get pregnant just to get a council flat etc?
This is another of those right-wing myths that whilst may be true in a very small number of cases, gets blown out of all proportion to create media hysteria and get the Middle Englanders' knees a-jerking. to detract from the more serious issues, such as the very wealthy using their power and influence to avoid paying billions in taxes (**** Society; every man for himself)....
Oh look, you've fallen for it....
Do you genuinely honestly think loads of teenage girls deliberately get pregnant just to get a council flat etc?
I quoted the case of a school my mother worked in for several years and it was a trait that a good percentage of the girls about to leave at 16 would become pregnant.
I didn't make any suggestion that the trait extended any further than that school.
Business is business; dog eat dog. My priority is to myself, I can't be concerned with the profit margins of others.
Simple economics, innit? Buy wherever is cheapest.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that's how it is.
So influential on so many people, even if they don't realise or won't admit it.....
just think if Thatcher had not been in power we would have thriving coal, steel etc industries, with people all earning 40k a year with good state pensions and lots of cheap steel to sell to the rest of the world and coal to export to China.... err, not sure how that would have worked out eh?
Can I have my exact figure on a 'good' salary please TurnerGuy? There are quite a few people I know who have kids and claim child benefit. I've an idea what kind of salary bracket they're in.
I'm confused as to whether I should view them as fundamentally decent people, or a burden on society? Its very confusing for me
Oh dear. Someone else completely misinterpreting something, as well as taking the bait hook, line and sinker... 🙄
Give it a rest HD. You're just embarrassing yourself now.
Is it cos I din't give you an autograph? Is that it? Diddums. Praps if you'd actually bin worth noticing, I might have noticed you.
I quoted the case of a school my mother worked in for several years and it was a trait that a good percentage of the girls about to leave at 16 would become pregnant.
So, how many of them [i]deliberately[/i] got pregnant to get a council flat then?
I pay too much tax.
Im tired of paying council tax on both shops, when a self employed plumber etc will earn far more than me and pay no business tax in the form of business rates, it sucks.
just means less incentive to open a shop, establish a business and employ people etc.
I pay too much tax.
Earn less then. Simples.
Apparently, life's proper cushy if you're on benefits. Why not give that a go?
Or maybe get pregnant?
20K? 25? 30? 35? 40 maybe? Come on now, don't be coy.
you're calling people who claim a benefit they're perfectly entitled too, scoungers. But you need to be specific. You're being a bit wooly.
I said "earning a good wage", which implies that they don't actually 'need' those benefits, but just claim them because they are entitled to.
There is only so much money raised through taxes.
I would prefer to see that money spent on the health service and care and trying to stop a few people dying from curable illnesses (or even overseas aid...), rather than have it handed out to people who just take it because they are entitled to it.
There is also an argument about not having kids if you can't afford to raise them, but there are counter arguments to that.
However, what is your viewpoint on this dm story:
http://www.****/news/article-1265508/Peter-Davey-gets-42-000-benefits-year-drives-Mercedes.html
are they entitled to an eigth kid at taxpayers expense?
Elfinsafety - Member
Is it cos I din't give you an autograph? Is that it? Diddums. Praps if you'd actually bin worth noticing, I might have noticed you.
Can it Halfman, I've told you before: e-mail in my profile.
If you feel the need to throw insults then at least have the grace to keep it off forum......
Do you genuinely honestly think loads of teenage girls deliberately get pregnant just to get a council flat etc?
Don't suppose this is common but I'd be surprised if it's never happened. Anyway, as it happens I do know of a not dissimilar situation. I knew someone who wanted a bigger council house as she had too many kids but the council said she had enough space so (according to her sister who I worked with) she thought if she had another kid they'd have to move her. When she did they still didn't move her.
Simple economics, innit? Buy wherever is cheapest.
So if we had the large manufacturing that Thatcher is famed for 'killing' you would be OK with the fact we could not sell any of the output due to being too expensive in the world market? Can't have it all can we?
She knew what was coming.
Posted this before in previous Thatcher thread as I think its difficult to understand the Thatcher legacy without appreciating the context of UK econ history in the 1970s-1980's
In terms of economic history, the 1970's and 1980s were periods of thesis and antithesis, whereas the 1990's became more of a period of synthesis. As always, both extremes sowed the seeds of their own destruction. The 1970s were an appalling period for the UK as a whole. Mining was not exempt from this. Miners wages had been crushed by rampant inflation leading to the 1972 call by the NUM for a 45% wage increase to compensate for the loss of earnings previously suffered. Not unreasonable one could argue, but what global industry would survive wage inflation of 45%? We then had Satley...confrontation....miners winning...the Yom Kippur War...the oil shock...an inflation crisis....wage demands/conflict etc.So Thatcher arrives and takes on the extremes of the 1970s - inflation, union power, increase welfare state, rigid adherence to Keynesian economics (although Callaghan pre-emptied her here) and introduced a different set of extremes laid out in Hayek's, "The Constitution of Liberty". Inflation was targetted via (the extremes of) monetarism, union power/restrictive practices was taken head on leading ultimately to appalling scenes of the Miners strike, the welfare state was attacked with a renewed focus on self-reliance which had its own extreme in "there is no such thing as society.", competition was introduced to the benefit of many before ending in an over-reliance on privatisation and free-markets etc.
The synthesis arrives in New Labour and Mandlesson's infamous line, "we are all Thatcherites now." Politics shifted to a central ground and the good parts of the Thatcher legacy remained and the bad parts rejected. This legacy remains with the real as opposed the rhetorical differences between Labour and Tories being marginal. Political extremes on both sides became and remain marginalised. The responses to the current crisis would have been generally the same whatever party had won the last election but with roles reversed.
The new thesis however was characterised by an unbalanced economy - financial services and public sector - and excess levels of leverage at the household, bank, corporate and sovereign levels. And so we now have a crisis that requires smaller financial services and public sectors and the extremes of leverage to be addressed but in the crisis context of the collapse (and possible re-birth) of the € project. So the new antithesis is represented by extremes in banker-bashing, the over-regulation of financial services, the attacks on the public sector wages and pensions and rhetorical errors such as Cameron's credit card gaffe. As before, this will not be pretty, but hopefully a new synthesis will arrive in time (2016?).
So, how many of them deliberately got pregnant to get a council flat then?
It does happen. I've witnessed it first hand. I spent years working with the economically and socially challenged and encountered several girls who openly admitted they got pregnant and had further children purely for the state benefits they were given.
I'm not saying it's rife and every teen mother does it intentionally, but it does happen.
So, how many of them deliberately got pregnant to get a council flat then?
100% of the girls that got pregnant just in time for leaving school, I would imagine.
20K? 25? 30? 35? 40 maybe? Come on now, don't be coy.
the statement
"or earning a good wage and claiming child benefit"
sort of implies that a good wage means that they do not need financially to claim child benefit.
I've got to admit TG that you've a point with that. Its madness!!
The benefit that I find incomprehensible s housing benefit. And I'd assume that represents the majority of their benefits bill. The Tories are planning to cap it at £500 a week. And people on benefits are moaning.
But that's over 2 grand a month! Paid for you! Not many people who are in full time employment could afford to be spending 2 grand a month on rent. I know I couldn't! But they're paying their taxes so that people who don't work, can
Its absolute insanity! The labour party have said this only yesterday. As peoples living standards get squeezed,people are going to stomach this kind of thing less and less
100% of the girls that got pregnant just in time for leaving school, [b]I would imagine[/b].
Ah. You 'would imagine'. I see. 😆
Are we done here? I think we are, aren't we? Yes.
due to the timing of the pregnancy I don't have to imagine very hard that it was 100%.
I know of someone who gets £400 a week in taxi credits (is that the right word?). Both work, one fulltime (manual low-paid work probably on minimum wage). Same as us however we get zip. Maybe I should get mrshora to bang out a second kid and take a lower paid permanent job.
A much less controversial acheivement, albeit one in an area which is itself now riven with controversy, is that she was the first world leader to clearly articulate the global warming / climate change issue.
Being one of the few (only?) scientifically literate leaders of an industrialised nation at the time, she was well placed to take the political lead on climate change in giving speeches to the UN etc, which she did plenty of in the late 80s. This had an enormous impact at the time and the legacy speaks for itself. It wasn't all just talk on her behalf, either, as she funded the founding of a climate change centre which became the current UEA one which is a world-leading institution in this area (subject of the leaked emails a year or two back).
After she retired she backtracked a lot on her previous positions on climate change, as someone like her would obviously do given the political make-up of the subsequent global warming movement that grew up in the 90s.
Binners - if the tories had not sold off all the council houses then there would be no need to pay private landlords inflated sums in housing benefit. a lot of the time these are ex council properties.
Oh elfin your naivety amuses me greatly.
your posts on here do cheer me up.
council tax is not based on earnings.
my gripe is that in trying to get a business off the ground and employ people, it is deemed that by having premises you need to pay a tax for having a business, by not having a premise you can run a business and not pay a business tax.
I dont see that as fair.
Oh elfin your naivety amuses me greatly.
your posts on here do cheer me up.council tax is not based on earnings.
TBF; you just said 'I pay too much tax'. Then you went on about CT.
I assumed you were on about income tax.
You might want to make yourself clearer.... 😉
I dont see that as fair.
Oh whell.
if the tories had not sold off all the council houses
Who would have paid for the up keep?
A much less controversial acheivement, albeit one in an area which is itself now riven with controversy, is that she was the first world leader to clearly articulate the global warming / climate change issue
there was TV interview where she rubbished the idea of catalytic converters as they would wipe out all the advances in lean burn engines that were being made at the time (and were just be introduced to placate the Germans whose cars all had inefficient engines).
sadly we got them 🙁
In the mid eighties I worked as a life model, if there happened to be a fine looking young lady in the class and I found myself getting distracted I used to imagine I had cold wet y-fronts on. If that didn't work I would imagine Maggie naked that always worked
That's a fair comment Elfin 🙂
I was playing golf at Edgebastion GC and saw Dennis Thatcher on the adjacent fairway.
It was the same day that Magie was coming out of hospital after having surgery on her 'hooked' hand.
