You've not heard of Jim?
I think he lives here:
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Junkyard - lazaruseuphemism ??
A younger/pre-politics Margaret Thatcher is credited with being on the team that developed the Lyons 'soft scoop' method of softening ice cream. Allegedly the biggest competition to this/her system at the time was the 'Mr Whippy'. 😀
So we have had what some think is a pretty graphic example of a totally unregulated society in Somalia, I'm not fully sure this is really an unregulated given the religious input into certain parts of that country. However it's still very relivent example of in humanity but still does not answer the question of why we cannot have a society that allows a free market. Now don't get bogged down with companies, banks or institutions that have upset you. These are all made up of humans just like you and me, is there a fundamental human failing that allows us to do/ be complicit in activity that is selfish. Humans can often show cooperative behaviour that is outstanding in its selflessness but then again be constantly selfish on a daily basis. Is it that we need to see an overwhelming reason to understand why working collectively is better in the long run.
Farmers Blonde, Bradfield Brewery lovely.
Interesting, isn't it?
Free marketeer = anarchist.
You should read the Wikipedia pages on anarchism and free marketeers, because they're very different.
Democratic socialism ? Very interesting, any working examples ?
Most Scandinavian countries have traditionally been much more socialist than us, and seemingly very successfully. They consistently score extremely highly on quality of life/standards of living ratings.
Do you think this country could go scandi-style then? All the scandinavian people i have met have been proper nice, friendly, open, cool people. maybe that's cos they were all arty types though. Dunno. Booze would be expensive though, that'd be a bummer.
Do you think this country'll go scandi-style then?
No, too much selfishness and lack of a sense of social responsibility in this country. Wonder why that might be.
Maybe there will be a wake up n smell the coffee time when people realise it is better to work together, for each other. I think the country will realise it is not some all powerful empirical force anymore and just a nice pretty island off the side of mainland europe with no real assets! Apart from great culture n history etc. maybe become a great tourist mecca or sommat. 😉
Grim, good question that on selfishness. The easy cop out answer would be to blame a politician ( living or dead). Though some believe that we are all a product of our environment, which must be true to an extent. If we have free will however we are all capable of choosing not to be selfish, so why don't we?
No, too much selfishness and lack of a sense of social responsibility in this country. Wonder why that might be.
Nail on the head.
The odd thing is despite this apparently (to me at least) being the case. On an individual level and national, we just don't appear to be enjoying any more success. By most measures a good deal less.
My experiences of Scandi types (actually almost entirely Swedish, and a few Norwegians who are generally a bit odd)are of well educated hard working pleasant folk to know with a great quality of life. One of the things that really stuck out about the Swedes was the quality and strength of the family unit. Really solid and well engaged.
I'm sure there are issues, and of course will not represent all Swedes.
I'm just getting on a coach to London & I've got 12 eggs.
If we have free will however we are all capable of choosing not to be selfish, so why don't we
i think its because ultimately our decisions are based partly on what is best for us and partly how are actions are judged in society.
Of course if there [b]is[/b] no society and we are excessively rewarded for looking after ourselves.....
jekkyl - MemberI'm just getting on a coach to London & I've got 12 eggs.
Hope you've also got a good lawyer.
piemonster - Member
I'm sure there are issues, and of course will not represent all Swedes.
I think it depends on where you met them, if it's people working over here then it's a pretty self-selecting group.
Hope you've also got a good lawyer.
we know he has a chicken, isn't that enough?
Apparently not.
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May your aim be true.
Dog eggs?
Most Scandinavian countries have traditionally been much more socialist than us, and seemingly very successfully. They consistently score extremely highly on quality of life/standards of living ratings.
Though Sweden didn't get involved in WWII and sold steel and big guns to both sides, which probably helped a bit 😉
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Gotta love that Bell, as ever.
I've just bought a cheap phone, in red. Does that count?
Have the R4 commentary on - I wonder what will transpire. My dad's a pretty committed socialist, and from N Yorks too. He's gutted about being stabbed in the back by Clegg [previously possibly electable option]- he's gone Green since.
I was raised to understand Thatcher was pretty damn awful - driving a steak into the heart of the working class. I haven't spoken to him in the last few days, I'll give him a call tonight and see what his take is. I'd think he'd have some interesting points, I'll try to post them.
Though some believe that we are all a product of our environment, which must be true to an extent. If we have free will however we are all capable of choosing not to be selfish, so why don't we?
well we get socialised into it being a virtue and use words like risk taker and wealth creator. We need to educate these folk to have a social responsibility or create a society that forces them to - say via high taxes 😉
It is fairly clear that ruthless selfish self centred individuals without empathy or social responsibility * are the ones who make their way to the top be it a banker a politiican or the local drug dealer and this appeals to those who want money above everything else.
It seems odd to design a society to let them win though.
* i am sure some business people and millionairres have asense of social responsibility but it is not as big as there desire to accquire wealth and or power as they could give it all away.
Steve Bell's a genius. Why his works aren't hanging up there with the likes of Picasso and Manet and Rembrandt I'll never know.
Grim, good question that on selfishness. The easy cop out answer would be to blame a politician ( living or dead). Though some believe that we are all a product of our environment, which must be true to an extent. If we have free will however we are all capable of choosing not to be selfish, so why don't we?
Whilst you can't blame everything on Thatcher, given that both sides would say she was a massively influential politician, and the right are now attempting to canonise her, I think it's fair to say she has had an impact on turning greed and selfishness into virtues, cheered on by the oligarchy through their newspapers etc.
And Labour, while they did some good things, largely carried on her legacy.
We've been brainwashed into believing that greed is a natural human instinct and is completely fine - it's not.
"To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches."
Daily Mash hit the nail again:
1) Baroness Thatcher’s coffin leaves Westminster and is taken up Whitehall to Downing Street where it will be removed from the hearse and dropped on Geoffrey Howe. A soldier, sailor and RAF pilot will then kick the former foreign secretary in the stomach for a full minute.
2) The coffin is then taken to the BBC headquarters at Bush House where it will be used to smash open the doors before the union flag is removed temporarily and stuffed into Evan Davis’s smart-alec mouth.
3) At Bush House the coffin will be placed on a gun carriage used in the miners’ strike and flanked by serving members from 14 of Britain’s biggest hedge funds.
Canary Wharf has been fitted with a massive hinge so that it can bow in tribute to its creator
4) The coffin continues along the Strand where it will stop for 90 seconds so that some hippies and communists can tell it to **** off.
5) In Fleet Street, a representative of the Murdoch family will place on top of the coffin a single white rose and a large gold brick.
6) At Ludgate Hill the coffin will then stop for another 90 seconds where a platoon of middle-aged women from Guildford will stand guard around it while chanting ‘she was too good for the lot of you’.
7) The procession then continues to St Paul’s Cathedral where it will be officially upstaged by the Queen and Geri Halliwell.
8 ) The coffin will then be carried into the cathedral by members of the cast and crew of Top Gear.
9) The funeral service will be conducted by some Christians through gritted teeth. Readings include St Paul’s Letter to the Saudi Arabians Urging Them to Buy a Shitload of Tornado Fighter-Bombers.
The body will then be removed from the coffin, placed in a large perspex tube and taken to a secret underground laboratory in Liechtenstein.
Woppit, another quote:
“today I break my self-denying ordinance and for a very good reason – to express my outrage at the callous and unjust treatment of Senator Pinochet,”
If we went back to simpler times when humanity evolved to live in small kinship groups it seems quite unlikely that we would sit there with one individual having all the wealth whilst the rest of struggled not least as i guess we would have done some direct action and robbed them /ostracised them from the community
Oddly it took the evolution of society and larger groups to enable this iniqitous spread of resources.
Like Grum i dont beleive selfishness is somehow one of our core beliefs no matter how many times I get told it.
SOme folk are selfish and they justify it by suggesting we all are when in reality it is them who are selfish to the extenet they want his form themselves
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and ignore this so they can have more
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Its frankly vulgar and shames humanity IMHO that we let folk get away with it tbh. The acceptance of greed and the iniquitous spread of wealth/resources literally kills people we could save - probably only need the top 3 richest folk in the worlds wealth to do most of it
Make 3 people poorer and change the lives of millions
Greed is not good
and before they start --human nature-- what is it-- its not being greedy and selfish--that would not be an evolutionary advantage ...
Once people can become detached from the consequences of their actions , two things basically need to be in place --empathy --or selfishness-- one is encompassing and progressive, the other is spiteful and divisive--most people will benefit from the former, but history shows that if you allow the latter to gain control of power, things are not very nice for most people.
try explaining that to a tory though...
pardon my ire, but they are bloody animals
Don't insult animals!
Is it philosophy hour?
Everyone is selfish.
my mate has posted--that " the cortege is getting heckled and booed"--can't think of many who get that-- feelings run deep-- its an expression against an ideology...our voices are not often heard ..but on such occasions ....
Everyone is selfish.
SOme folk are selfish and they justify it by suggesting we all are
But it takes different forms depending the desired (selfish?) needs of the individual. This is based on the fact that everyone wants gratification of some sort.
So the conclusion is surely life is not fair we need to build a utopia to make it fair, revolution perhaps ?
So the conclusion is surely life is not fair we need to build a utopia to make it fair, revolution perhaps ?
the present system needs turning on its head as they say-- reforms and appealing for crumbs just don't work-- so yes the big R word is needed--
Quote from the office
One of the ladies - "the flowers on the coffin are beautiful"
Reply from our resident cynic - "something else that's died for Thatcher!"
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cheekyboy. Aye but who will be in charge after the revolution. Not any of you lot, you are all so selfless and empathetic you'll either never come to a consensus or more like one of you will end up in charge by whatever means possible because you know you are right and should be in charge. Then you'll split factions and start killing each other.
I'd be happy to sell you all guns for a small consideration to settle your differences. See there is a role for a tory.
yunki +1
I couldn't let this one away.
Churchill do it for you?No idea what he was like, but I think he did somethign positive for the country.
If churchill was such a great tory why do you think the got rid of him right after the war?
CharlieMungus - MemberI couldn't let this one away.
Churchill do it for you?
No idea what he was like, but I think he did somethign positive for the country.
If churchill was such a great tory why do you think the got rid of him right after the war?
Nor could I
Selective use of facts.
Prime Minister twice (1940–45 and 1951–55)
