all you cretinous right wingers really need to look around-- which country in europe has a strong economy, unions on the boards of most major employers, proper welfare system and a 35 hr week---- Germany....they work together for the good of most, wage /salary disparities nothing like here-- oh and unemployed get 80% of average wage they were earning....
How was it the fault of people who were brought up in Welsh or Northern villages / towns with only one significant source of employment? Sure, these mines couldn't last but education / training / help with moving etc should have been looked into before shutting down entire communities.
Go and read up on what Clement Atlee's Labour Government did with Category D villages in the North East and the toll this took in the following decades !
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railways_Act_1993 ]
Why do some blame her for everything?
You know how Regan dealt with problems in this period? He increased the debt window countless times.
Similar to New Labour. Increase public spending and reliance for boom or bust. It kept them popular but Maggies approach was the opposite.
Politicians yearn to be popular. She didn't.
How can you blame how your life turned out on her?
Molgrips
That worked out well with Blair and Brown didn't it. In reality the third way would have degenerated into letting the unions continue their ego trip as there was no way their leaders were going to voluntarily let go of their personal power. Some of the things done weren't good, bulldozing the pit head down the shaft to effectively seal the mines was pretty vindictive. But then the country couldn't afford to let these communities down gently, they had been subsidised for years by previous governments.
oh and they build ships, and have heavy engineering , in that there Germany-- uk plc is a call centre state selling shit nobody needs/wants
i'm just really surprised that so many people on a mountain bike forum have so obviously never been to glyncorrwg.
Hi ErnieIt was a difficult and painful time for the majority.
Indeed it was. Unemployment, government spending, the tax burden, housing shortage, and crime levels, all shot up significantly under her Premiership. Economic growth in the 1980s was exactly the same as in the 1970s. And wages as a percentage of GDP fell.
It was however a good time for a small minority.
And of course it was the free-market fundamentalism which she introduced in the 1980s that sowed the seeds of today's crises.
Rudebwoy, thats the German Unions, culturally very different from the dinosaurs in the UK. As you said they work for the good of most, not just the egos and personal idealogies of the union leaders.
Now if you can't have a reasoned rant without being insulting it might be your bedtime.
What year did the mine close in Glyncorrwg?
Ernie - ref the 1970s:
Same old, same old, unions this, unions that. Mining on the ropes, reinvest or assist in other means of employment? Nah, shut it all down and sod'em. Banking utterly F***ed up, how much do you need, old chap? help yourself to billions. What a legacy for us all.
Well the tax payers will be better off now as we won't have to pay her her allowance /expensive every week which some reports were over £2,000 a week .
Funny how CMD is happy to cut benefits to the poor and handicap but not to the rich claiming there money .
Stavromuller
Don't remember Thatcher bailing out the banks, think that may have been good old socialist Gorden Brown.
Banking utterly ****ed up?
So who was in power for a DECADE before this happened?
Comrade Blair sweetie
Non stop nun. Blair and Brown cost us money now you know. Blair also has publically funded security. So whilst he makes millions from his connections in the middle east trips....we pay. Nice huh?
Rudebwoy, thats the German Unions [u]and companies and management[/u], culturally very different from the dinosaurs in the UK.
walleater - MemberHow was it the fault of people who were brought up in Welsh or Northern villages / towns with only one significant source of employment? Sure, these mines couldn't last but education / training / help with moving etc should have been looked into before shutting down entire communities.
I really think it is not a very good idea for a PM to micro manage so I think you cannot blame her entirely. Perhaps the local leader should be blamed.
Who bailed them out hora?....and the Tories were in charge parading as Labour MP's.
Can some of these Thatcher supporters enlighten me on where North Sea oil revenue during her tenure and the proceeds from the sell off of everything went?
Nick1962, fair point, unions get the management they deserve and vice versa. Management do hold the whip hand though, ultimately they are the representatives of the people who own the business.
Scargill the leach on poor miners. Check yourselves.
Like to call such lefties commercial-Reds.
all you cretinous right wingers really need to look around--
Oh my, you really do have a chip on your shoulder don't you.....
I think it iis shameful that we all spend so much time and effort arguing about what she did and didn't do, and what we can blame her for for and how some try to lionise or demonise her. We should be ashamed of ourselves. She died today, let us not forget that. She has died, can we not just be grateful for that and leave all the bickering aside.
🙂
rudebwoy - Memberall you cretinous right wingers really need to look around-- which country in europe has a strong economy, unions on the boards of most major employers, proper welfare system and a 35 hr week---- Germany....they work together for the good of most, wage /salary disparities nothing like here-- oh and unemployed get 80% of average wage they were earning....
Firstly, watch your language.
Secondly, if you're comparing the power hungry fat cat champagne socialist union leaders of this country with that of Germany, then you have obviously no idea what you are talking about.
Thatcher did however introduce "incentives" for the financial sector in London. These should not be confused with "subsidies", which were withdrawn from the undeserving provinces.
The more I remember, the angrier I get.
get quite annoyed that people think that thatcher presided over some kind economic golden age as far as i can see her policies seem just as self destructive as our current governments
the countries coffers were swollen by north sea oil revenues dwarfing the input of the city
and it was the previous labour government that had brought the american oil expertise/investment to make it all possible
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00l7r9j
next time its on this is well worth watching
If you/others post something as fact.
Can you please include a link/to the facts? I said the same earlier to pro-Tory flow charts as well.
Lets not do what stw'er project did a few posts back hey.
Guys for all the wrongs/rights she has been involved with, at the end of the day she will be missed by her family RIP
De-regulation (brought in by Thatchers Government) meant the financial sector had free reign and was tightly not controlled by government. So how can successive governments be blamed for the financial industry so monumentally f***ing up? Unless you think Blair should have brought the financial industry to heel.
Nick1962
We're not necessarily Thatcher supporters, she did a lot of things badly, the council house sell of for example, it was great people got to own their own homes and criminal the money wasn't immediately pumped back into more social housing. However I don't buy into the utopian view of how the unions were not massively responsible for what happened or how 30 years on millions of people have been unable to get a grip on their lives because of things that happened then.
rattrap - MemberErnie - ref the 1970s:
The old IMF argument z-11 ? 🙂
Only reason it was a Labour government that went to the IMF, rather that a Tory one, is because the Tories lost the 1974 general election and failed to form a coalition government with the Liberals ........ otherwise the Tories would have gone to the IMF !
Three days after the general election in 1974, which had resulted in a hung parliament, Ted Heath approached Liberal Party leader Jeremy Thorpe with the offer of a coalition government. He informed Thorpe that he had made preparations to apply for a loan from the IMF.
Thorpe turned down Heath's offer and he had to vacate Number 10 for Harold Wilson. Heath therefore never had the opportunity to go 'cap in hand' to the IMF, as he had fully intended to, and which is minuted and documented.
However despite the economic mess left by the Tories, Wilson was able to hang on for another two years before asking for an IMF loan. The Tories would have simply gone earlier !
Don't believe me ? Well don't take my word for it then......take the Daily Mail's word, I'm sure that staunch and unwavering loyal Tory newspaper is a reliable source, don't you ?
[url= http://www.****/news/article-1239930/How-Prime-Minister-Ted-Heath-nearly-went-International-Monetary-Fund-loan-1974.html ]How former Prime Minister Ted Heath nearly went to the International Monetary Fund for a loan in 1974[/url]
Quote :
[b][i]The Tory prime minister was preparing to go ‘cap in hand’ to the IMF and to take ‘unpleasant measures’, archives reveal.
It is an embarrassing revelation for the Tories, who still make political capital out of the 1976 crisis when Labour chancellor Denis Healey had to submit to IMF supervision to get a loan.
The minutes read: ‘On a Privy Councillor basis the prime minister told Mr Thorpe that preparations had been made for a drawing [a loan] on the IMF.’[/i][/b]
So nearly, but not quite......because the electorate kicked out the Tories ! 🙂
stavromuller - MemberDe-regulation (brought in by Thatchers Government) meant the financial sector had free reign and was tightly not controlled by government. So how can successive governments be blamed for the financial industry so monumentally f***ing up? Unless you think Blair should have brought the financial industry to heel.
Brown called for less regulation. 🙂
What year did the mine close in Glyncorrwg?
that detail disables you from seeing what happens when a valley/village/town loses its only source of income ?
Believe theres many of people that have been waiting for this day
What a great day
Unless you think Blair should have brought the financial industry to heel
Pretty much, actually as chancellor it's Brown I have themost contempt for, rode the boom quite happily right upto the bust.
It seems that the people who voted her government in three times don't reside on mtb forums.
Guys for all the wrongs/rights she has been involved with, at the end of the day she will be missed by her family RIP
Yes, give them the respect which she denied those who died under the atrocious regimes she supported
I agree rowlapa....it's never nice to lose a loved one, and losing a parent must be incredibly tough, so my sympathies go out to them.
However, she was the one that chose to lead a public life and put herself incharge. Incurring the wrath of those whose life she ruined is fair game IMO. Yes she was just another pensioner that died of a stroke, but also was a hugely divisive figure that lived a large part of her life in the public eye shaping millions of lives-I fail to see why people whose life she's ruined should feel compelled to feel any great sympathy to her.
rode the boom quite happily right upto the bust.
Name a party or person that wouldn't do that.
You know how Regan dealt with problems in this period? He increased the debt window countless times.Similar to New Labour. Increase public spending and reliance for boom or bust. It kept them popular but Maggies approach was the opposite.
But public spending rose under Thatcher
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She was a decent woman with principles, and believed she was doing the best thing for the country.
I have a great distaste for many of her political actions and would never have voted for her, but RIP.
Charliemungus Libya? Saudi Arabia?
Public spending artifically kept Labour going.
Theres an art to it you know.
Its called a balanced economy.
Im out folks. Off to read some mags and buy a dessert. Peace
stumpypump and spongepad-- go play with each other--i'm off out for a party whey hey!!
Erm.. Chile, Cambodia
She was a decent woman with principles, and believed she was doing the best thing for the country.
That in itself is not worth anything, the same could be said for the long succession of South African Presidents
trailmonkey - Memberthat detail disables you from seeing what happens when a valley/village/town loses its only source of income?
It's awful.
Which is why the unions should have accepted modernization and the inevitable few redundancies rather than put everyone out of work.
It seems that the people who voted her government in three times don't reside on mtb forums.
The majority of the British electorate voted against the Tories in all 3 elections she won.
