[Closed] Terror (in inverted commas) attack in London

Ernie, you are talking pish

I'm pretty sure that anyone that thinks mowing folks down in the name of allah so can they can spend eternity with a 1000 virgins is probably mentally ill in some way.

Boring drac. Fiddling with comments to make yourself appear superior. Worked much in mental health and forensics? I guess not. Judgemental old me eh.

I'm not trying to appear superior. No, I haven't but my family all work or worked in mental health, my Dad was a senior lecturer in mental health and I've worked in health care for over 26 years. So I've learnt not to label someone as having mental health issue just because they do something that's not normal.

The Yorkshire Ripper claimed that God told him to kill. Everyone knows that the Yorkshire Ripper was mentally ill, no one describes the Ripper's crimes as religiously motivated, whatever he says.

Obvs If someone believes to have heard God personally giving them instructions, wether to kill or otherwise I would belive them to be suffering some sort of mental illness wether they were religious or not. There is a difference between being religious and hearing voices.

 

Chapeau for the "you ain't no Muslim" comment made at the time and subsequent hashtag

I thought the "you ain't no Muslim Bruv" was brilliant and it brought a smile to my face.
I don't know wether the person who said it was Muslim or not to me it does not matter.
What mattered was it was not the voice of some one who was terrorised but of someone who was indignant to this mans action. And if terror was his motive he had failed.

tpbiker - Member

Ernie, you are talking pish

I'm pretty sure that anyone that thinks mowing folks down in the name of allah so can they can spend eternity with a 1000 virgins is probably mentally ill in some way.

Erm, if you actually bothered to read what I say before commenting you would realise that is very similar to what I've said.

My first post and the second one on this thread :

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/terror-in-inverted-commas-attack-in-london#post-7353861

"This is for Syria" sounds more like the random ramblings of someone with mental health issues than evidence of a planned and executed terrorist outrage.

Yep, I'd wager he's just unhinged and latched onto the whole ISIS thing as a direction rather than being a devoted ISIS terrorist (in which case he's the worst one yet in terms of effectiveness). Problem is, there is so much politics at play (e.g. Police funding), that most bodies involved have a vested interest in portraying him an a hardcore ISIS terrorist, whether he is or not.

What a stupid comment.

Well with such a compelling and exhaustive argument as that, how can I possibly disagree. 🙄

Did he not state his motives ?

Was it edited into the footage afterwards maybe ?

"Feel free to disagree with him" is a stupid comment, if you can't figure that out I can't really help you.

hhmmm ... just watched the clip where the assailant/terrorist/nutter whateverrrrr was standing shouting his action was meant for Syria etc ...

I mean with his back turn and with his heighten excitement shouting around if there was no police arrival what would you do?

I ain't debating what's in his head nor what influenced him btw.

What would you do? Just want to know ... like.

😛

I would try and stay at a safe distance and talk him down. Then if he went for me I would try to avoid him if I could (run away) but if unavoidable, I did judo as a kid so would hope I could defend my self.

If he attacked others I would hope I would try to help. I would probably be looking around for a fire extinguisher or anything I could use as a weapon.

Feel free to disagree with him" is a stupid comment, if you can't figure that out I can't really help you.

He said he was doing it "for Syria"

You seemed to disagree with that and said it was "random ramblings" rather than it being related to what he actually said was about.

I said

"...guessing his motives based on his religion wasn't a factor in the news reporting, as was claimed at the top of the page.
He stated his motives, feel free to disagree with him though."

If you can't explain why you have an issue with that, then I can't be bothered to care.

I heard he was angry when he bust his iPhone. "This is for Siri! Ah!"

If you can't explain why you have an issue with that

I don't have an issue with anything. If you want to believe what an alleged perpetrator of a violent crime claims was his motive, or that those with mental health issues are guaranteed to understand their own thought processes, then that's up to you.

Personally I don't think violent criminals and those with serious mental health issues can be fully trusted to always tell the truth.

If I was hauled before the courts for the armed robbery of a post office and I claimed that my motive was purely to help my sick elderly mother with her bills would you automatically assume that I was telling the truth?

I have of course no idea what this individual's motives were, but it would appear to me on the surface that this incident sounds more like the work of a nutter than a calculating terrorist. You might have a different opinion.

chip - Member

I would try and stay at a safe distance and talk him down. Then if he went for me I would try to avoid him if I could (run away) but if unavoidable, I did judo as a kid so would hope I could defend my self.

If he attacked others I would hope I would try to help. I would probably be looking around for a fire extinguisher or anything I could use as a weapon.

It's tricky isn't it considering that we are not programmed to react so suddenly with the unexpected.

I guess my only defend, if push comes to shove, would be my Fisher space pen, my courier bag and my belt but not sure how effective would these items be to protect myself ... hmmm ... something to think about I guess. 😮

He said he was doing it "for Syria

I did judo as a kid so hope i could defend myself

I'd be steering well clear

The bloke was a raving fruitcake.. Nothing more

yunki - Member

I did judo as a kid so hope i could defend myself

LOL... You **** twit

I'd be steering well clear

What if there is no place for you to steer clear or if you are cornered?

😯

Then it's berserker O'clock surely?

yunki - Member
Then it's berserker O'clock surely?

How exactly? Shout? Looks very angry?

Bear in mind the assailant has a big knife moving in your direction with stabbing motion (now think of the sound effect from the movie Psycho).

Have you ever been trapped in a room by a nutcase with a machete chewkw?
Last time it happened to me I kept my gob shut and tried to pretend I was invisible..
The last time I was forced to react in that situation I think I roared a lot and went in low

chewkw - Member

What if there is no place for you to steer clear or if you are cornered?

Then I'd say as-salaam alaikum in a mega scottish accent and tell him I voted SNP. He would be instantly pacified, or at least would go and stab some english dude whose MP voted for the war.

Failing that, I'd throw down some smokebombs and vanish.

If I was hauled before the courts for the armed robbery of a post office and I claimed that my motive was purely to help my sick elderly mother with her bills would you automatically assume that I was telling the truth?

Yunki you are your usual delightful self.
I said I would run if I could but if I could not I hope I would be able to defend myself, I have been attacked before and without thinking put them on the floor its amazing how these things stay with you. I have also waded in in the past to defend people so would hope I would be brave enough to help.

So be as offensive as you wish as your insults really don't bother me.

A pound to a pinch of chicken shit says the guys a deluded pot-head !

yunki - Member

Have you ever been trapped in a room by a nutcase with a machete chewkw?
Last time it happened to me I kept my gob shut and tried to pretend I was invisible..
The last time I was forced to react in that situation I think I roared a lot and went in low

No, not exactly trapped in a that situation but rather sat inside a cafe watching people chasing each other with machetes ... gang fight btw. Then the police arrived with M16 ... they all ran away ... 😆

Really I don't know how I would react in those situation ...

Northwind - Member
Then I'd say as-salaam alaikum in a mega scottish accent and tell him I voted SNP. He would be instantly pacified, or at least would go and stab some english dude whose MP voted for the war.

Failing that, I'd throw down some smokebombs and vanish.

No, no ... you should shout Freedoommm!

Well, I bet one glance at me he would walk away coz I ain't white and secondly of no value to the media at all which I hope is the case. However, if I were to have the very typical oriental look, Chinese to be specific, then I might be in danger if I were in certain regions in the far east because they don't have white people to target there so they try to target the Chinese.

another chap was deliberately pushed off an underground platform earlier this week, the suspect wasnt a terrorist it appears,

That's different, you are making an excuse after the fact.

Yes well done, it's example of an excuse. Perhaps "this is for Syria" was simply an excuse to go out and stab someone, who knows.

It was a pretty poor terrorist outrage if that was the intention. The person most seriously injured doesn't apparently have any life threatening injuries.

.

another chap was deliberately pushed off an underground platform earlier this week, the suspect wasnt a terrorist it appears,

Perhaps he forgot to say "this is for Syria"? Or perhaps he had a sore throat and no one could hear him.

I'm pretty sure that anyone that thinks mowing folks down in the name of allah so can they can spend eternity with a 1000 virgins is probably mentally ill in some way.

Last I heard it was 72 virgins. Wish they'd make their minds up!

Yes well done, it's example of an excuse. Perhaps "this is for Syria" was simply an excuse to go out and stab someone, who knows.

DSPD then.

But would it have been easier to say nothing and just attack with aid of surprise you would have a better chance of doing more damage.

I am not saying I am right and maybe this was someone with mental health issues, maybe not.
You can't tell based on what we know.
What happened to lee rigby, a rational explanation would be he suffered at the hands of a mentally ill person(s) but didn't.
Then there was that poor woman who was beheaded in her own garden which was due to a sick man.

It could be the action of a would be terrorist or a madman, I am sure we will find out which.

It could be the action of a would be terrorist or a madman

I would guess it's pretty hard to tell the difference between the two....

Drac - Moderator
No, I haven't but my family all work or worked in mental health, my Dad was a senior lecturer in mental health and I've worked in health care for over 26 years. So I've learnt not to label someone as having mental health issue just because they do something that's not normal.

You say labelled, I say "partial MSE based on the short video clip, and a natural flair at my job"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12036774/Leytonstone-Tube-attack-Muhaydin-Mire-appears-in-court.html

"He was saying odd things, talking nonsense and saying that he was seeing demons."

"He was diagnosed by a doctor and treated in 2007 for paranoia and [treated] in hospital for three months."

So what happens now. If doctors confirm he has suffered a psychotic episode will he still stand trial for attempted murder. Where this will be put forward as his defence. And then if it is agreed by the court will he get off the charges and hospitalised until such time as he is deemed well enough to leave. Or can he still be convicted.

Probably s37 41, hospital order with restrictions.

"If you are under a Section 37/41 it means that the Crown Court has decided that (on the advice of two doctors) instead of going to prison, you would benefit from going to a hospital to receive treatment for a serious mental health problem. The judge will have decided that, because of concerns about public safety, you need to be both Section 37 and also Section 41. Section 37 deals with treatment of your mental health problem.

The Section 41 (often called a Restriction Order) means the Secretary of State decides when you can be given leave and when you can leave hospital. If it is agreed that you can leave hospital, conditions will be attached to your discharge. This is called a conditional discharge and means that you could be brought back to hospital if you do not comply with these conditions."

There will probably be an investigation as to why concerns were raised and how the Police reacted to these concerns, what was done, timeline of events etc

Certainly appears to be a mental health issue. Reported he was a driver for Uber too 😐

Still labelled just because a few days later people come forward with stories doesn't make is Ok to say he has mental health issues from the start.

.

Ffs drac you actually work in health care? Ever heard of icd or dsm? Few labels in there man. I just said in my eyes he was more mental health than terrorist. I didn't diagnose him.

I'm leaving this now as you're just being a plank. Sorry for labelling you.

. I just said in my eyes he was more mental health than terrorist. [b]I didn't diagnose him.[/b]

That was my point.

Oh he's gone.

He was clearly a complete nutjob

He was clearly a complete nutjob

No, he just had a different opinion than me. 😀

What mattered was it was not the voice of some one who was terrorised but of someone who was indignant to this mans action. And if terror was his motive he had failed.

wasn't it more like the voice of someone standing at the sidelines watching other people do the containment ?

. And then if it is agreed by the court will he get off the charges and hospitalised until such time as he is deemed well enough to leave

After they've sufficiently rearranged your brain pathology with ****ing strong drugs 🙂 (IME)

Terror (in inverted commas) attack in London
Bl00dy terrorists, stealing the [SHIFT] and/or [2] keys from people's keyboards

Previously chewkw asked what people would do in such a situation, the two options that immediately came to mind were, save your self, or stay and help.
But a third option that never occurred to me until pointed out on the radio yesterday is, pull out your phone and start filming.

I am not surprised the authorities did not act when the family raised concerns, as due to cuts apparently places on physciatric wards/hospitals are like hens teeth. And your more likely to be sent away with a crisis card.

I am glad he did not manage to kill someone as much for his sake as the people he attacked.

Listening to the guys mental health problems, the whole incident sounds very similar to someone I knew.

He had similar mental health issues, smoked a lot cannabis, stopped socialising. People got concerned and called the doctor, but it was too late, and he killed someone. After he was arrested, he claimed he was doing "God's work" and got called a religious fanatic in the press (he'd never previously been particularly religious but his parents attended church).

I think pyschosis causes religous delusions, and presumably the religion is one the sufferer is familiar with.

He was taken to a secure mental hospital for around 11 years, until he was deemed fit enough to stand trial, where he was convicted of murder and sent to Jail.

It wasn't labelled terrorism.