[Closed] Tea bagging a serious crime now

What if it was your son that drunkenly cock slapped someone at the age of 19. Dont you think that 9 months would be a bit harsh considering it achieves nothing really considering his life would be ruined by going on the register. Prison is there to rehabilitate offenders, I'm not sure a cock slapper needs 9 months of rehabilitating.

Spot on. Why wouldn't a fine (victim costs?) and community service do the same job? Makes it clear that his actions were unacceptable (while at the same time a long way short of rape or an aggressive sexual assault with all the trauma and fear that would of induced. I know it's folly to compare sentences for different crimes but 9 months for this compared to drivers who kill getting off without jail time does seems ridiculous, doesn't it?

is there maybe an element maybe of judges coming down harder on middle class/posh kids as an example (similar to when the toffs got involved in the urban riots a while back)....

mind you, as noted above, its more the sort of thing the ruggerbuggers do, admittedly to their mates anyway 😕

Is`nt punishment supposed to be harsh ?

What if this video had gone viral ?

That girls life, career prospects could have been severely damaged simply by a totally innocent/unaware association with a group of idiots.

Why again has the perpetrator become the victim ?

He can rehabilitate himself once he is released by a sincere apology to the girl involved.

What if it was your son that drunkenly cock slapped someone at the age of 19. Dont you think that 9 months would be a bit harsh considering it achieves nothing really considering his life would be ruined by going on the register. Prison is there to rehabilitate offenders, I'm not sure a cock slapper needs 9 months of rehabilitating.

I don't think personalising these things helps. What if your son raped and murdered someone? would you want them to lock him away or try to rehabilitate him, perhaps offering counselling and support? What would you want for your own child that in the main you would not entertain for other criminals?

Spot on. Why wouldn't a fine (victim costs?) and community service do the same job?

Really, so how much do you think would be reasonable to pay? how much community service? Doing what?

Really, so how much do you think would be reasonable to pay? how much community service? Doing what?

I don't know what's available to judge and I don't know the financial situation of the man involved, so it's hard to make a judgement. Pretty sure that jail time isn't the answer here.

Well, this thread has increased the number of people on the forum I'm not sure I'd get along with in the real world.....

I despair for the future of my children, knowing that there are grown adults out there that are genuinely appalled by childish hi-jinx, and believe that it's acceptable to condone this sort of sentencing

At what age can I come around and rub my cock around your children's faces, 16,18,21

It's not how funny the todger slapper thinks it is, it's how demeaning and frightening the victim thinks it is that matters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-29746354

The law doesn't make any sense when one of these two got the same sentence as dick slapper

Surely dick slapper should have been heavily fined and made to do community work of the victims choice and the nasty xxxxs above should have been given 7 years or more. I'm sure the victims here must be scared to leave the house now.

The video, do you not think when this young woman meets people in a social or professional capacity she may have it in the back of her mind that what if they have seen the video.
Or the worry that at anytime some moron might get hold of it and circulate it around her place of work. Next week next year in five years time.

By pure coincidence some one found a picture of a friends mum in a readers wifes section of an old jazz mag when we were at school. His life was hell for months.

The video is what makes it far far worse, worrying it could surface anywhere anytime in later life out of spite.

but dickslapper knew it was against the law, as a law student he knew roughly what the sentences are, he took the risk anyway, filmed it (!), got the consequences.

Maybe the laws are too harsh but that's a separate issue. He hasn't got much grounds for sympathy.

It's like weed dealing - it might not be the biggest crime in the world, but people who get into it know what the risks are, and you don't usually hear people bleating about it when they get caught.

Anyway, as regards the prison thing. I've got mates who did a few months in prison around the age of 21, mainly for stupid shit, and most of them say it was the best thing that could've happened - they weren't really bad lads, just idiots, and prison scared them into growing up and getting their heads straight....

Chip.. In all seriousness, I'd be far more concerned about letting you near my children, than I would be about letting dickslapper near them..

You have not answered my question, how old would they have to be for you to consider it high jinx.

Your daughter comes home upset that some ****er touched her face with his cock and filmed it.
You would laugh it off.

The bloke who did this was a right nasty shit, just think about it.

Would he have done it if the girl's boyfriend was there ready to floor him?
Would he have done it if she was in a position to retaliate?
Would he have done it if he thought she had friends/brothers/father who would seek him out later and dismantle him?

No, he only did it because he was confident he was in a position of power and untouchable, and with a mentality like that, you just have to wonder what he would have done if there had been no one else around.

And that's why we have the law. To protect the weak and vulnerable from arseholes like him.

Chip, there is IMO a substantial difference between going round and slapping randoms on the head with your member, and a drunken jape gone wrong at a party. Surely you can see this?

I don't think Yunki is saying its something that he condones, and I'm sure hed be annoyed if someone did it to his daughter and it upset her, but 9 months??? Far to long IMO.

as an aside...what is batwinging??

No point arguing with the sex-attack apologists. I bet they also think Ched Evans should be let off.

No chip, I wouldn't laugh it off..
I'd comfort her, and I'd be disappointed that she's hanging out with bellends, and I would indeed worry about the video..

I certainly wouldn't be calling for a jail sentence for some silly young boy, and I'd still be infinitely more concerned if she were hanging out with reactionary psychotic wierdos 🙂

He called people who found this unacceptable, repressed.

No.. I called people who approved of jail sentences for this disturbed.. Probably as a result of repression

If he did it to my daughter, girlfriend, mother.
I would smash his teeth in, literally.

So maybe I am an reactionary weirdo,

I'm not trained to counsel violent psychotic patients.. I'm off out for a ride with my kids 🙂

(I should probably add that I think a punch in the teeth is a more appropriate course of action than jail time if that helps)

Believe me I am not repressed, I would stick anywhere I was allowed.

My wife used to be a criminal barrister, generally prosecution.

Any time I got stirred up about a sentence she'd repeat the same thing. If you don't like the law, then harass your politicians, and don't criticise the sentence unless you have perused all the evidence, including a victim statement.

Basically, judges aren't stupid.

(and probably have daughters too)

Smashing someone's teeth in is a crime as well, would you happily volunteer yourself to the police station and serve the time?

[i]No.. I called people who approved of jail sentences for this disturbed.. Probably as a result of repression[/i]

If I was that girl I'd want this bloke put away as well. I'd also say that this a male issue. This is guy apparently starting a career in law, doing blatant sexualised power attacks on vulnerable victims. Right there is a repressed person, yunki.

Lets make no apologies, this is a sex crime and should be punished like one

bat winging
When the male's scrotum is sweaty and it sticks to the sides of the legs, to resemble a bat's wings.

chip, give up. There may be one troll on here but when posters persist it says to me that they really do believe in what they are typing.

To those- if you ever did this to someone I love, well you'd need jail to keep safe. x

Ok.. So maybe we're all guilty of looking at this through our personal realm of experience..

We've all been to different parties and we've all expressed our teenaged repression in different ways, in different peer groups with differing boundaries.. Context is everything

I guess the judge, being in possession of all the facts felt the silly boy in question had clearly overstepped the mark in a bad way, but I still fail to see, unless the kid is an utter wrong 'un, how a jail sentence for this will benefit society

[quote=crankboy ]Aracer so on the uptodate guidelines he has an on the money sentence for a bog standard catagory two sentence with full credit. For what was arguably a high end catagory two offence.

You're the lawyer not me, but I'm not seeing how it is high end - it only meets one of the requirements for cat 2, and from what I can see only makes it into cat A by virtue of the filming. Also plenty of the relevant mitigating factors. Seems spot on from my reading of the new guidelines. Of course for me this is different and interesting - if it was my day job I doubt I'd be that keen on doing research for an STW argument.

Anyway as epi says, the judge will have a lot more info than we do, and most of the time they seem to do a good job. What's more, the publicity for this is because of an appeal where 3 higher judges have looked at all the evidence and agreed with the original judge. I'd suggest that any internet lawyer trying to argue all 4 of them have got it wrong is in shaky ground.

To anybody complaining about the sentence (which includes yunki and the whatabouters) please just go and read the guidelines I've linked above. If you think they're wrong (and I'd suggest that for context you need to read a lot more of them for other offences - available [url= http://sentencingcouncil.judiciary.gov.uk/guidelines/guidelines-to-download.htm ]here[/url]) then as epi says complain to the politicians - though personally apart from the ones dealing with motoring offences they seem pretty reasonable in general to me.

Cheekyboy, western or at least British judicial systems are built on the idea that prisons are there to rehabilitate and keep those that cant be rehabilitated (eg Charlie Bronson) away from society to protect both themselves and others.

If you don't agree with that principal then you need to change the whole British justice system. 9 months serves no useful purpose in this context imo.

but I still fail to see, unless the kid is an utter wrong 'un, how a jail sentence for this will benefit society

Because it puts out the message that this is in no way shape or form acceptable and puts a measure of how not right it is.

how a jail sentence for this will benefit society

Theres a victim in all of this you know. Are you forgetting that- or is it a case of 'shes a girl, shes bound to have some blokes cock in her face/its part of society/her life so shouldn't be a big deal to her'?

Forgetting its terrible unconsented for a moment. What if she is gay. Does that magnify, the same or diminish the effects on her then?

Can you see the word victim, or should she 'man up'?

If, you or I became very drunk on a night out and ended up in a blokes bed with no memory of what happened and you felt utterly appalled. Should you think 'well I was at a party and I was drinking so no one else to blame'?

Was she was asking for it?

I've had the opportunity to take advantage of a girl before. Its seriously off-putting, so naturally thought '**** that'.

[i] but I still fail to see, how a jail sentence for this will benefit society[/i]

His idea of a "joke" is to hit a girl over the head with his cock and film it.. That's a person whose morals are seriously skewed, and is clearly a threat to women, and you can't see that deserves a prison sentence?

I edited your comment btw, he's a "wrong un" that's obvious to everyone, isn't it?

I'd also say that this a male issue.

Specific genitalia notwithstanding, care to elaborate...

What if it was your son that drunkenly cock slapped someone at the age of 19.

I'd think I'd failed him as a father.

Perspective, context, peer group..

I guess if the girl considers herself a victim of sexual assault rather than a victim of a practical joke it alters the context dramatically.. I missed that subtlety and I apologise for causing anyone offence

The sexism thing is a red herring though, cos I'm sat with my other half, and we were struggling to see the problem with it in the context of our own peer group

I guess if the girl considers herself a victim of sexual assault rather than a victim of a practical joke it alters the context dramatically

And that was the point I made earlier - you're taking one hell of a risk doing it, assuming that the woman was going to take it as a joke. In some situations with someone else, they may well have laughed it off and genuinely been fine with it but that doesn't make doing it to anyone ok. The physical act itself is defined as a crime, just because many people don't take it further doesn't change that.

I don't think sexism is relevant here - it's perspective (many blokes will never have felt vulnerable in the same way that many women will have).

As to the sentence itself, we don't have the facts but it's not been reversed or reduced which suggests that there's some reasonable logic to it. On the face of it I agree that 9 month probably feels longer than I'd have suggested without all the facts (I'm thinking 3 or 6 months) but that's the key point - I don't have all the facts or a full picture of the impact to the victim's life.

[i]I'd also say that this a male issue.
Specific genitalia notwithstanding, care to elaborate...[/i]

Read the Grayson perry article about default man, there's a bit in it where he says being a white male in this particular society is like playing a game on the "easy" setting. It's a power/ dominance/ sexism thing that means some guys genuinely can't or won't see the problems with viewing their actions through a "male lens"

Yunki, I get what your saying. What blokes amongst themselves get upto playing soggy biscuit or whatever is one thing ( disgusting and weird) but whatever. Doing the same thing to some random "other person" just a bit ****ed up, no?

^^ this.

lots of blokes will scrap with their mates, pile on, whatever - even to the point where someone gets injured. No hard feelings.

but if you've ever had a group of strangers 'pile on' to you at midnight in the street, in an area known for gang crime, it's a very different (and terrifying) kettle of fish. Even when they only leave you with a few cuts and bruises and all run off laughing, that still doesn't make it #laddish #topbantz, no matter what they might think...

context is all!

Read the Grayson perry article about default man, there's a bit in it where he says being a white male in this particular society is like playing a game on the "easy" setting.

You say that but there are now far less men entering higher education than women and women seem to dominate in biology research labs in all but the highest positions which are often taken by fusty old professors who will retire at some point. Women have a bit of a harder time in research because of balancing having a child with their work - but again - it can be just as hard for the postdoctoral men having a family as they have to up and move every couple of years as well.

I don't think it's "easy" as a man it todays society, maybe for a few privileged Bullingdon types.

Some of the facts are available in the sentencing guidelines I keep banging on about. To me the sentence seems about right (and would require some major mitigating stuff we don't know about to be any less), crankboy who is a real lawyer seems to think it's pretty lenient. None of that is really dependent on how traumatised the victim is - if it had resulted in major trauma then the sentence should be longer.

We've all been to different parties and we've all expressed our teenaged repression in different ways, in different peer groups with differing boundaries.. Context is everything

Chip, there is IMO a substantial difference between going round and slapping randoms on the head with your member, and a drunken jape gone wrong at a party. Surely you can see this?

I've just spotted a colleague of mine having a power nap at her desk. I'll just go and slap my todger on her forehead and report back.

remember to film it.