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Harry appears to be guilty of going out in a new tech car, that fuels by a method completely different to what he's used to, having done no preparation, planning or research into the national charging network and then blaming everyone else except his own stupidity. He is however correct about the national network being confusing to new users, difficult to use generally and over complicated methods of payment etc. It needs sorting out.
As for the mileage… when I go on the autobahn, the predicted range goes UP not down.
Indeed but when you go into town it goes down not up.
Spot on B.A.nana despite having more experience than anyone on stw he couldn’t work that one thing out that took me less than half hour to research when looking into a hybrid. I’m looking further into once I decide if I’m going fully ev this time or not.
Harry appears to be guilty of going out in a new tech car, that fuels by a method completely different to what he’s used to, having done no preparation, planning or research into the national charging network
Another one not watching the video.
He had the car for a few weeks before the video.
All the preparation in the world won’t stop you coming across broken chargers, no space at chargers etc.
And what happens when you have to divert you route because of an accident and you do more miles than your meticulous planning suggested? You’re stuck in an area you don’t know with a rapidly dying battery.
I kind of get what Harry was trying to do, and it should be easier. New rapid chargers have to have contactless, and almost every new car has a CCS port for rapid charging - but there's a long tail of early cars (and chargers) out there. Polar at least have said they'll have contactless on everything by the summer. Instavolt have always been contactless.
That Hammersmith hub was on free vend as an intro/testing thing - they wanted to get lots of charges on them, but it means anyone with time on their hands queues up to fill their cars. A petrol station giving away fuel would have quite the queue as well.
He uses a Polar card that doesn't work (it's not the charger failing), presumably because the subscription has lapsed, then can't be bothered to set up the alternative.
And as for Ecotricity - they need to get out of this business and fast. Hoovered up early government grants to build a charging network then have left it to rot. At least the motorway services exclusivity agreements are starting to expire so hopefully they don't have long left.
When I pull up at a petrol station I'm offered 4 different pumps, and given that 150,000 people choose the wrong one each year (dozens of police and ambulance crews among them), I don't think liquid fuelling is immune to stupidity either.
Harry if you’re going to claim no one is using the Tesla chargers don’t pan the camera to show they are
Again, watch the video. He showed the Tesla chargers as a good example of how Tesla are providing infrastructure when no other manufactures are, not as an example of how the infrastructure isn’t being used. And nearly all the chargers weren’t being used, unless there were some magical cars you could see that my perfect eyesight couldn’t. 🙄
He had the car for a few weeks before the video.
All the preparation in the world won’t stop you coming across broken chargers, no space at chargers etc.
And what happens when you have to divert you route because of an accident and you do more miles than your meticulous planning suggested? You’re stuck in an area you don’t know with a rapidly dying battery.
he hadn't even bothered signing up to the main networks before going on a long journey, then threw his toys about because of that - was my point
Again, watch the video. He showed the Tesla chargers as a good example of how Tesla are providing infrastructure when no other manufactures are, not as an example of how the infrastructure isn’t being used. And nearly all the chargers weren’t being used, unless there were some magical cars you could see that my perfect eyesight couldn’t.
I did. Yes they have and VW as I mentioned is another investing networks. He said no one is using them they were his camera work wasn’t good enough, yes lots empty as Tesla unlike others won’t allow anyone but Tesla to use them. If Tesla allowed others to use them he could have been charging his car once Harry had worked how.
https://pod-point.com/rollout/tesco-ev-charging
he hadn’t even bothered signing up to the main networks before going on a long journey
I didn't sign up to Esso, Mobil, Texaco, BP and Morrisons either, before I set out on a 100mi journey each way.
Didn't need to.
Shouldn't need to. Just plug in, and pay with standard means of card payment, and wait till it's full.
For a slightly more optimistic viewpoint than Harry’s, it’s worth checking out The Fully Charged Show on YouTube
It covers electric cars as well as solar power, house batteries, etc.
e.g.
Oh and it is presented, partly, by Kryton :
Shouldn’t need to. Just plug in, and pay with standard means of card payment, and wait till it’s full.
You’re right you shouldn’t but for now it’s how it works. It would be like heading for fuel and then wondering why they don’t take your Euros for payment at U.K. petrol station.
Didn’t need to.
Shouldn’t need to. Just plug in, and pay with standard means of card payment, and wait till it’s full.
These are all the places you can do that in the UK, today.
Excellent that’s an incredible difference to how it use to be. Poor Harry for someone with more knowledge then STW combined he’s a bit well crap.
I didn’t sign up to Esso, Mobil, Texaco, BP and Morrisons either, before I set out on a 100mi journey each way.
Didn’t need to.
Shouldn’t need to. Just plug in, and pay with standard means of card payment, and wait till it’s full.
100% Agreed, but the point is it isn't like that yet and he didn't do anything to help himself (I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing and it was all done to make the point).
Interesting all fast chargers taking debit card 3 if which are currently available
Yep Instavolt round here are credit/debit card contactless, it's how it should be.
To be fair, that Polar is right off the motorway so it's the convenient option. Only one of those (the Engenie at the top) has contactless at the moment but the others should soon.
I filtered contactless and free to use.
I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing and it was all done to make the point).
It’s exactly what he did as I say to use the cliches that people like Swedishmetal still believe in.
The new standard is Euro combo which is compatible with the old Type 2 and looks like being the future. The CHAdeMO, type 1 and type 3 look likely to lose support.
I agree that a (pan European) law is needed to make all charge points payable with a contactless credit card. (I said I agreed with Harry on this point from the outset). Over the next year I'll be using the Zoé in at least half a dozen different countries with as many different languages and no doubt many more apps. Despite that I very much doubt I'll ever run out, because if the worst come to the worst you can always bribe someone to let you plug the car in somewhere.
Are you in Germany, Andy? It's a proper pain there. Anything free is squatted by Merc hybrids for the free parking and there are something like 80 different charge point cards/apps.
because if the worst come to the worst you can always bribe someone to let you plug the car in somewhere.
I’ve used my Charge your car card for others to charge their car on when they’ve asked if I knew how it worked. After scanning my card I’ve explained how to get a card or app.
Drac, "free to use" on zapmap just means no session or per-kWh costs - you still need a card or app to start the charge. All the Chargeplace Scotland stuff is like that.
if the worst come to the worst you can always bribe someone to let you plug the car in somewhere.
I believe https://www.plugshare.com/ will show you people's residential chargers that they are happy for others to use.
Drac, “free to use” on zapmap just means no session or per-kWh costs – you still need a card or app to start the charge. All the Chargeplace Scotland stuff is like that.
Oh aye good point as our local ones are free in the public car parks. 🤦🏻♂️
Having now unticked that it seems I’d accidentally unticked debit card option so indeed you are right there’s just the one.
I believe https://www.plugshare.com/ /a> will show you people’s residential chargers that they are happy for others to use.
A big uptake on that too since I last looked, why can’t Morrison’s, BP and Esso do that with diesel if you forgot your wallet?
Are you in Germany, Andy? It’s a proper pain there.
Yup and yup.
I think we have chargers for 4 parking spaces in a 6 storey carpark at work (would have to check the exact number, cos I never park on that floor).
There are 2 in the street outside work (well the other end of the street, but close enough). Always in use. Same car every single morning when I go past. Even if I could use those, I couldn't, cos I can't always guarantee getting out of a meeting to go move it. I guess there must be some kind of "etiquette"? There are a handful of other 1-2 charger points around town now., and similarly, I've never seen them empty.
There are more and more gradually appearing at autobahn services, but I wouldn't call it a massive number. UK is definitely ahead there in terms of numbers of chargers (ignoring requirements for registering with every provider, etc.)
Last time I checked an app (well the website), there were a few chargers in Q-Park (one of which was 8 chargers, but only open 8am-8pm working days), and a 60km round trip to the nearest Tesla charger!
Of course it's getting better, and clearly there are a lot of EV. It's just not quite there yet. And I think that was the point Harry was trying to make.
You’re right you shouldn’t but for now it’s how it works.
Seems like a valid criticism then.
It would be like heading for fuel and then wondering why they don’t take your Euros for payment at U.K. petrol station.
Not really because everyone in the UK takes pounds, it's normal and written into law. Whereas having to sign up for an app brings with it a whole load of other issues.
Seems like a valid criticism then.
Which everyone has agreed on but not on his mellow dramatics on how hard is to find a charger you can use.
Not really because everyone in the UK takes pounds, it’s normal and written into law.
Yeah you’ve missed my point and added a bit of drama to it.
Whereas having to sign up for an app brings with it a whole load of other issues.
Like Apple Pay so I don’t have to take pounds, despite what the law states.
I've driven an EV for 3.5 years.
It's been charged away from home exactly zero times..........
I N R A T S but SH Renault if the status isn't important.
I’ve driven an EV for 3.5 years.
It’s been charged away from home exactly zero times……
I which case your BMW i3 is the hybrid range extender version, you've got another car or you've never driven more than 65 miles from home. 🙂
Wife has just bought a leaf. Could someone help us out with what home charge point to get?
Much appreciated
Like Apple Pay so I don’t have to take pounds, despite what the law states.
Can you be temporary custodian of an electric car without owning an over priced phone?
How would you find charging points.
They seem to be in the oddest of places once you get out of the city's
Probably find a Nokia 3310 on eBay.
How would you find charging points.
They seem to be in the oddest of places once you get out of the city’s
Zap-map, you usually find them in car parks which is a very odd place to put them.
Wife has just bought a leaf. Could someone help us out with what home charge point to get?
Podpoint use to be the generic reply but I think there was another last time someone asked.
Thanks Drac, They look good.
Hi Garlando,
If you have solar PV or plan to do so then investigate the Myenergi Zappi.
We have been using one for nearly a year.
Very good, charges from solar panels or can be programmed to charge overnight if you have a tarrif with cheap rates at certain times.
Be aware that chargers now need to be 'smart' to qualify for grant funding.
She needs to decide if she wants tethered or untethered, tethered is most straightforward I expect, untethered is usually cheapest option (you provide the cable which should come with your car, you may have to remove it from the charger every time tho so it doesn't get nicked, which makes it a faff for many people).
Rolec are quite cheap and loads of people have them incl me (untethered).
If I had the option again I think an Ohme charger is a good blend of price and tech. I've bought an Ohme cable for the Rolec as they were half price from Octopus Energy. a lot of EV users are on Octopus Go tariif or Octopus Agile, the ohme cable works with the Octopus Agile tariff to make your charging as cheap as possible, which is why I've bought the Ohme cable.
Otherwise there are loads out there some examples here https://www.smarthomecharge.co.uk/vehicles/nissan/nissan-leaf/
you need to be aware of the gov grant, as above
I’ve driven an EV for 3.5 years.
It’s been charged away from home exactly zero times………
Same here. It's called purchasing the vehicle appropriate to your lifestyle.
No decision yet, but after watching the "Maddie Goes Electric" videos above we have found the following helpful things:
https://ev-database.org/ - nice database of available electric cars to help narrow down the choice based on whatever criteria you feel is important.
https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/ & https://www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/ more useful buying info and reviews.
https://www.zap-map.com/ & https://www.plugshare.com/ - mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Useful for checking out what charging facilities are available nearby.
So it looks like we have a 43kW charger in a car park very near our house. It is apparently run by http://chargeyourcar.org.uk/
As far as I can tell it is FREE to use, though you need a ChargeYourCar membership which costs £20pa. Does that sound about right/typical?
Octopus that was the supplier I couldn’t recall cheers B.a.nana
So I've been musing again about electric cars - with a view to potentially choosing one in the future as the BIK for company cars is so low. I like cars of all types so read/watch reviews, follow Fully Charged and other channels etc.
A smaller range one for the wife would be ideal for her use locally and I like the idea of reducing emmissions, but to buy personally is pretty affordable at the moment. Fuel savings for low mileage certainly doesn't offset the purchase cost.
If doing regular national travel for work, I've come to the conclusion that a Tesla would be the only rational choice at the moment. Having had a hybrid before, you soon lose the will to use chargers that may be slow/non-working/occupied (ECOTRICITY!!!) and that are located at crappy-expensive-coffee service station locations. Being tied to that several times a week with a full BEV (such as the good-value but low range MG) would soon become v tedious. Looking at ZappApp things are improving but by no means sorted.
With the Tesla supercharger V3 rolling out now (250kW) and a model 3 able to add 75 miles in just over 5 min you're starting to approach a solution that works......if your route is near one at the right time. If going this route though, I would be worried about how quickly or otherwise that this network is going to expand in the next year or two and therefore how much capacity they have, for the undoubted sales boom that's now underway.
In an ideal world you would have a choice of affordable cars, that have ~350-400 miles of actual range, charge it at home 95% of the time, with solar PV doing some of the heavy lifting charging-wise and the car acting as a store for those volts and feeding back into the house for the peak evening use when it's not needed.
I lease an i3 through Zenith and had it delivered last December with about 7 weeks from BMW confirming order to getting it delivered so you may be lucky and get it earlier
So here is a map of 24hr public access charge points around me.
https://imgur.com/gallery/9ztJmea
Even if you remove the filters the other chargers are at either B&Bs/car dealerships for customers only or car parks where you have to pay on top of any charging fee.
Looks like Calderdale council need to sort themselves out. There’s 3 free to use in town near me and 2 where you pay but all are free parking.
Oh! The zap-map 24hr filter is broke as it shows only one with 24 access near me and it’s a one I didn’t know was there so that’s 4 where you pay.
Wait they’ve also installed 2 more free to use just on the edge of town so that’s 5. None of which at a services.
Octopus that was the supplier I couldn’t recall cheers B.a.nana
On that subject, I found this helpful on the zap-map website. .zap-map.com/charge-points/ev-energy-tariffs/
EV designed tariffs generally don't show up on the usual comparison engines, because they are a bit left field, so you need to do the research yourself. In that list on ZapMap there is no mention of Octopus Agile tariff, it's also worth considering in terms of the whole home and your car, but it's in beta testing at the moment (which you can join) so a bit of an experiment. If you do consider Agile then you really need your home car charger to work with the Agile tariff, I'm only aware of Ohme smart chargers / cables that currently do this, but there might be others.
Looks like Calderdale council need to sort themselves out. There’s 3 free to use in town near me and 2 where you pay but all are free parking.
Oh! The zap-map 24hr filter is broke as it shows only one with 24 access near me and it’s a one I didn’t know was there so that’s 4 where you pay.
On that map you’ve got all of Kirklees (425000 residents) and a lot of Calderdale (205000) plus bits of Bradford and Leeds.
Quite a lot of people in these areas live in houses with no drives (lots of terraced houses) so can’t put their own point in.
Don’t think I’m against EV’s at all. I have a hybrid at the moment (not a plug in) and would love a full EV. In fact when my work car comes up for renewal (2.5 years away) I’ll probably get one. But that’s only because I can fit my own charger as I have a drive and a suitable location to fit a charger. There’s no way on earth anyone living round me could have an EV if they didn’t have their own charger or got a free charge at work at a push, unless they were a complete martyr to the cause.
Are you aware of this programme swedishmetal? https://ev.engie.co.uk/wyca.html
I live in the Aire valley and there are about 7 being installed up the valley (unfortunately not in Skipton)