Well it could... With a native tree rather than a non native, deliberately planted there to make the scenery look nice...
Was it? That seems to indicate an enormous amount of foresight - a tree seed, or sapling put somewhere where anything could have easily happened to it, like livestock or wild animals just eating it or ringbarking it, like deer do. A native tree could just as easily have died, been eaten across such a period of time, and not become a feature of the landscape.
Well i think thats the generally accepted story. John Clayton planted it. Protected it while jts young etc just like any other planted tree.
I am not for one second suggesting its not a big deal but i am very very onboard with the poster talking about all the daft emotion. Sycamore is a weed a single tree in that location is an artifical sight created by grazing or for shooting there should be trees all over the shop.
The punishment should be planting thousands of native trees not locking them up because the tree is a bit special.
That tree cut down by Toby's Carvery is a bigger deal.
I would never condone thier stupid stunt,but reading some of the details around their lives and upbringing was grim.
There are thousands more like them,and they are adrift.
the majority of people in the criminal justice system have been failed by society at some point and end up there because of circumstance. But it clearly would send a poor message if actions on this scale, with this degree of premeditation, didn’t have significant sanctions.I would never condone thier stupid stunt,but reading some of the details around their lives and upbringing was grim.
There are thousands more like them,and they are adrift.
That tree cut down by Toby's Carvery is a bigger deal.
But probably not a crime! The species of tree or how many hundreds of years old etc is really not significant to the crime. The point is they went out of their way to lug a chainsaw in the dark across someone else’s property to cut a tree down for a laugh.
..jails are full of the bad, the mad and the sadthe majority of people in the criminal justice system have been failed by society at some point and end up there because of circumstance. But it clearly would send a poor message if actions on this scale, with this degree of premeditation, didn’t have significant sanctions.I would never condone thier stupid stunt,but reading some of the details around their lives and upbringing was grim.
There are thousands more like them,and they are adrift.
A load of bleeding heart Guardianistas arguing that a prison sentence is a bit much for a stupid act of vandalism.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/may/14/sycamore-gap-tree-duo-do-not-belong-in-prison
As a social worker who wrote hundreds of pre-sentence reports before becoming a criminologist, and someone who has been to prison before all of that, I would.....
Well judging by the eloquent letter which Dr Rod Earle had published in the Guardian I can't help thinking that prison did him the world of good.
Good on you geezer!
A load of bleeding heart Guardianistas arguing that a prison sentence is a bit much for a stupid act of vandalism.
I don't read the guardian but it is.
They could be made to do something useful. As i pointed out before make em plant 10000 native trees.
I think i would rather take the porridge.
So 4 years & 3 months each (minus time already served), and a crushed Range Rover.......
40% of sentence to be served inside & rest on licence.
Wow - significant jail time. Thats a surprise to me. Shows how much crimes against property are sentenced harsher than crimes against people
"Daniel Graham, 39, and Adam Carruthers, 32, have each been jailed for four years and three months after being convicted of criminal damage to the much-loved Sycamore Gap tree, which had stood for more than 100 years in a fold in the landscape.
The judge said the pair would be released no later than 40 per cent through their prison sentences.
Each will serve a further six months concurrently for the damage the pair caused to Hadrian’s Wall as a result of the felling."
Edit - dagnamit - too slow by seconds 🙂
Daniel Graham, 39, and Adam Carruthers, 32
I'd seen pics of them before, but had only seen Carruthers age. I'd thought it strange that a younger bloke was hanging around with someone so much older than him. I now see the gap is only 7 years! Graham, must have had a tough paper round...
Thats a surprise to me. Shows how much crimes against property are sentenced harsher than crimes against people
In this case I don't think the sentence is about a crime against property per se. Its about the vandalism of something that society as a whole greatly valued. ( & not for its financial value as a tree)
It’s a truly unique level of stupid to end up in prison for cutting down a tree. Something they’re no doubt sick of having pointed out to them by their fellow inmates
In this case I don't think the sentence is about a crime against property per se. Its about the vandalism of something that society as a whole greatly valued. ( & not for its financial value as a tree)
I dont think the law works like that and TBH it shouldnt. Because then its all down to emotion perception, rather than following sentencing guidelines.
Be interested to know how the judge arrived at that figure
Wow - significant jail time. Thats a surprise to me. Shows how much crimes against property are sentenced harsher than crimes against people
"Daniel Graham, 39, and Adam Carruthers, 32, have each been jailed for four years and three months after being convicted of criminal damage to the much-loved Sycamore Gap tree, which had stood for more than 100 years in a fold in the landscape.
The judge said the pair would be released no later than 40 per cent through their prison sentences.
Each will serve a further six months concurrently for the damage the pair caused to Hadrian’s Wall as a result of the felling."
This country lags well behind other European countries regarding the amount of forest cover, treatment of old, valuable trees, and the fines that can be imposed on people guilty of crimes against those trees - these two asshats could have been fined up to £400,000 in at least one country. There are trees in the U.K. older than Stonehenge, that’s around 5000 years old, which have no legal protections!
There are greater fines imposed on people who steal money, than those who damage something that’s irreplaceable.
From the BBC, earlier:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnvmpz5qqe5o?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=user/BBCNews
It's happening more and more with general building developments too:
No, you can't cut the trees down.
Ooops, we already did, must have been a miscommunication with our contractor. Still, now that we've cut them down, we can't put them back so we may as well build those houses / that out-of-town shopping centre that, by sheer coincidence, we had planned for this site. What's that, a £100,000 fine? OK, no worries, the development will make us £10m so that's no problem.
Same way that listed buildings mysteriously catch fire just a day after the council has said "no, it's a listed building, your development is refused".
They literally factor in the cost of a fine onto the overall development.
An entire woodland can be utterly destroyed within a few hours, long before any enforcement can turn up and put a stop to it. Needs to be unlimited fines and a complete restoration order - you must completely replant the woodland, plus 20% extra land which you need to buy, at your own expense. It'll never be the same again obviously but it'd be a bit more of a deterrent.
