Further, I am not concerned with anyone who wishes to use this terrible tragedy to score internet points. Whilst you might think it a game to argue about the pointless and irrelevant minutiae of certain interpretations of history, the people of Gaza are suffering a collective punishment that is so utterly immoral, so disgusting, it degrades all of humanity. Some of you might want to consider your thoughts and words on here, and their potential impact. Many hundreds of innocent people lost their lives on October the 7th, many more thousands have lost their lives, their homes, their futures, since.
I found my wife yesterday, crying because of the sheer hopelessness of it all. Because babies are dying. My wife deals with human tragedies every day, as part of her job. She seldom cries. Her sister is living in daily fear in Israel, and whilst the 'risk' to her and her family is significantly less than in Gaza, the fear is still there. This is our family; we have Palestinian friends and colleagues who have lost loved ones, who cannot do anything to help those who remain. There is no hierarchy of grief, no scale of entitlement to outrage.
Please consider your words to one another more carefully. Look at your fellow human being; do you truly have hatred for them? Why not seek to build bridges and not trenches between one another? I myself am as guilty as anyone for wanting my voice heard, for wanting my sentiments to be regarded as righteous, but please. This is not the time for further division. Do not play the tories game. Again; the only way forward is through unity.
I'm going to leave this here for now, as it's clear my emotions are overriding rationality and clarity of vision. Peace to all.
Weird to see the "Israel created Hamas" canard being wheeled out to be support for the question (proposition):
Did the isreali government not bring about the end of the palestinian authority that created a more moderate leadership?
...when Hamas was founded in 1987 and the Palestinian Authority was created only in 1994.
Mind you, there's plenty of people that believe in Jewish Space Lasers and Muslamic Rayguns, so perhaps it's only a short hop to imagining Mossad time travelled back to create Hamas to end the PNA before it even existed.
It is well evidenced that hostile forces often use rape and sexual violence against prisoners
I thought you were giving a report about Saturday's demo? Why talk about rape and sexual violence?
Discussing the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is prohibited on STW.
Although if we are going down that road let's focus at least on the most important current issue - the catastrophic human consequences, not who is right and who is wrong
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67334666
More than 11,000 people have been killed in Gaza according to the Hamas-run health ministry, including more than 4,500 children - but Nick believes those numbers could be just the tip of the iceberg.
"As a result of the bombings there will be large numbers of deaths due to untreated cancers, untreated diabetes," he says.
"Until insulin was invented, diabetes killed everyone. Now, if they haven't got any insulin... diabetes will start killing people.
"If they've got no power, they can't give dialysis, so all patients in kidney failure will die, so that the amount of excess deaths will be huge in the next few months absolutely is a really important point."
"They're drinking dirty, non-sterile water at the moment. The big danger is that infectious diseases just take control and run through the population...and that will lead to many, many thousands of deaths."
TJ now with the antisemantic views.
Very good but I tell you, puns will start WW III or something. 😉
Joking aside...
This thread, as so many of the political/ geopolitical ones do, remind me of how close the opinions are on here are yet pages are spent debating the slightest nuisance of difference.
I mean, I love STW and the heated discussions but it strikes me there is far more consensus than many like to admit. Wood for trees and all that.
Just my thoughts anyway.
It just shows how ridiculous the whole House of Lords nonsense is and why Starmer should stick to his pledge to “Abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations”.<br /><br />
although… if you were the PM and you wanted a vaguely competent cabinet having a mechanism to coopt people to make up for the muppets the electorate voted for would be quite handy. It’s hardly uncommon for an ex-PM to end up in the lords. I’m not a fan of the Lords at all but I definitely don’t want a second chamber voted the way first chamber is!
I’m going to leave this here for now, as it’s clear my emotions are overriding rationality and clarity of vision. Peace to all.
On the contrary, your input is careful, measured, polite and informative.
Which rather shows up the rest of us, to be honest
I definitely don’t want a second chamber voted the way first chamber is!
Okay ..... so let's abolish the House of Lords – replace it with an elected chamber of regions and nations, which uses a different voting method.
On the contrary, your input is careful, measured, polite and informative.
Agreed. It's other argumentative sods on here that twist the discussion.
I’m going to leave this here for now, as it’s clear my emotions are overriding rationality and clarity of vision. Peace to all.
You and Ernie actually put your principles on view to the entire country yesterday. That's more than I did yesterday or any other day.
You are both on the same page as far as I can see, just different chapters at most.
Brown person take an hour or a day if yiu must. And try not get into tit fir tat arguement ( i know. Highly ironic coming from me)
But dont disappear please
tjagain
Full Member
Brown person take an hour or a day if yiu must. And try not get into tit fir tat arguement ( i know. Highly ironic coming from me)But dont disappear please
I'm framing that. 😁
I am not implying anything cougar, I am stating a fact. If don't agree with me then start a thread on current conflict, which is where any discussion on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict should be, not on this thread
Do we now need a James! Cleverley! thread?
FFS no. We've already got multiple threads* discussing the same bloody thing, why do we need another one?
*Something that appears to have escaped the attention of the mods given how quick they are to close down duplicate threads on other subjects. Wouldn't it be a better idea to have one general politics thread, then those who don't like it can easily avoid it, and the self-appointed thread police like binners won't be able to shout down people they disagree with on the grounds of it being off topic.
I posted a suggestion 2 or 3 years ago that there should be a dedicated forum for political threads; a good idea then as it still is.
Has Braverman posted anything on Twitter yet? I wont go on X unless I really have to, horrid place.
She's obviously going to play the victim in public but I suspect that she sees definite positives in this outcome too.
We haven't seen the last of her and Binner's bet that (I think it was Binner?) that she will be the next Tory leader is a definite and chilling possibility.
Odds of Braverman being the next leader when I put that bet on a few months ago: 9/1
Present odds 5/1
Only Kemi Badanoch has better odds at 4/1
Penny Mordaunt is also 5/1, presumably for her sword-carrying abliity. She hasn't got a hope with the membership
A warning: I also called Liz Truss as Johnsosn's successor with a bet I put on a year before she was appointed, also at 9/1 at the time
If members got to vote on it, Braverman would likely win id guess?
No, no word from her yet.
I suppose the obvious day to kick off will be Wednesday.
If the gov wins it will be, "look, they fired me for doing a fantastic job."
If they lose it's, "I was back stabbed by my own party and the leftie courts, I never had a chance."
I suppose the obvious day to kick off will be Wednesday.
Absolutely bang on. War will be declared on Sunak by her on Wednesday, whatever the Rwanda outcome.
But it looks like they'll lose, so that will be her letting rip with her 'tofu-eating wokerati' nonsense which I'm sure will now include Rishi
Fellow headbanger Theresa Villiers is on radio 4 and has just said "I'm sure Suella will still have a big role to play in the future of the Conservative party" as she calls for the UK to withdraw from the ECHR
Thats hardly very subtle, is it?
FFS no. We’ve already got multiple threads* discussing the same bloody thing, why do we need another one?
Twas a joke, the last thing I'd want is a thread dedicated to that utter bloater.
At the first tweet on Wednesday from her, I wish Sunak would just remove the whip from her just to spite her and stop her even getting on the ballot paper for next leader.
Anymore cage rattling from the rest of the right wing loons and maybe he could just say, 'Right, lets just have an election'.
Anyway, I'm off to write my christmas list for santa as he's more likrly to listen...
I am not implying anything cougar, I am stating a fact. If don’t agree with me then start a thread on current conflict, which is where any discussion on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict should be, not on this thread
You were stating a 'fact,' I was being generous not least because I anticipated that you'd try to weasel-word your way out of the accusation otherwise.
You forget perhaps, I was a moderator here for a decade. I know, intimately, how moderation on STW works. I know how the site owners/admin works. I know how those two facets interact. Which is how I can say with some confidence that you're talking nonsense. Probably in order to provoke exactly the reaction I've just given you.
There are many reasons why a thread might get closed, in the example you cite it's likely because people prove to be unable to discuss emotive topics in a civil manner. Whatever those reasons may be however, prohibition is not one of them, despite "you can't talk about [x] because it's not allowed / you'll get banned / your fridge will defrost" etc being an oft-touted claim. That is not a STW forum I recognise.
I'm not going to start a threat about Palestine because I don't know the first thing about it. In fact, maybe "explain it to me" should actually be a thread.
UKC has a 'politics' forum area, and it is possible to switch it off. The forum is a much better place for it!
cameron...'I believe in public service'.
A prize to the first person who helps me understand how that statement is compatible with:
- fleecing the public purse through his association with Greensill
- sustained lobbying on behalf of Greensill when, it is alleged, he would have known it was a questionable business
- the PAC assessing that he had exercised poor judgenent in his dealings with Greensill
- his 'overly accommodating' attitude to China
- his approval and endorsement of osborne's austerity programne which damaged local authorities and their ability to deliver public services to such an extent that they have not recovered and, possibly, never will
That will do for starters.
Public service? My arse.
This is purely self-serving.
UKC has a ‘politics’ forum area, and it is possible to switch it off. The forum is a much better place for it!
It surprises me how "not reading things" is such an alien concept. It's what I do with, say, football threads.
Too many is of course a problem, it gums up a forum. This is why duplicate threads get deleted. But if it's what people want to talk about and they're not just creating threads at random for the lols then...
It surprises me how “not reading things” is such an alien concept.
Blaming things on aliens? That's very on brand for the Braverman thread.
Don't threads get closed when it gets dominated by a circular conversation between just two or three posters? Not sure how it works.
Hopefully that's not going to happen and it's moved on.
I don't think Suella will get back in anywhere if Cameron has Sunak's ear, I suspect he'll (DC) will be advising on pushing back against the right wing rhetoric. I think he'll see a more moderate approach as a way of drawing people back at this stage.
Appealing more and more to the right is scrapping a very shallow barrel that won't give them a majority.
Which is almost more worrying when it comes to framing themselves for the general election.
You forget perhaps, I was a moderator here for a decade.
How could anyone ever forget!
Anyway, yeah, no one is allowed to start a thread about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, nor use other threads as a proxy.
Which is the reason why there is no thread on the subject. Did you think that there was no thread about Palestine because no one thinks it is important?
Don’t threads get closed when it gets dominated by a circular conversation
Same Ten ****ers.
It surprises me how “not reading things” is such an alien concept. It’s what I do with, say, football threads.
I couldn't agree more cougar!
Channel 4 News is covering this very well. Asking which Tory PM is actually running the country. Lol
Wonderful stuff.
That video of the blokes at Waterloo yesterday. Looks like they are on the naughty step.
Arrests made after alleged hate crime at Waterloo
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67407293
A prize to the first person who helps me understand how that statement is compatible with:
Easy!
It all depends on your definition of public service.
Yours is a boring one which takes the words literally.
His is more imaginative. Hug a hoody and swipe their phone.
Don’t threads get closed when it gets dominated by a circular conversation between just two or three posters? Not sure how it works.
"It depends." This is subjective.
Anyway, yeah, no one is allowed to start a thread about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, nor use other threads as a proxy.
Aside from that's exactly what you're doing here?
Which is the reason why there is no thread on the subject. Did you think that there was no thread about Palestine because no one thinks it is important?
No, I've already offered two explanations why there isn't a thread, do keep up. There's absolutely nothing stopping you from creating one beyond your own inability to be wrong about something.
The issue isn’t political threads. It’s that every single one without fail becomes a circular arguement between two people (not always the same 2 people) who are just desperate to have the last word on the matter.
ideally I’d be able to mute certain posters on threads that are otherwise quite interesting…
The last post by Drac on the closed thread discussing the Palestine situation
Enough.
Any attempt to start a new thread and it will be closed with a possible ban for the person starting it.
well that's grim
https://twitter.com/lowles_nick/status/1723723302147850371?t=PuZxImReClriwgxT9OQJuA&s=19
Am I right in thinking the motley crew on the left are NF too?
It's sadly nothing new. 30 years ago:
https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-motion/7410/national-front-and-remembrance-sunday
well that’s grim
You have no idea how ****ing angry this makes me, ****ing livid would be an understatement by some measure, their presence and existence dishonours the memory of much finer men (and women) than they, I'd go as far as to say they're not even worth shining the boots of the friends I've lost.
