[Closed] STW 2014/15 Rugby Thread

The Welsh prop is guilty as per the below IRB law

(h)
A player must not charge into a ruck or maul. Charging includes any contact made without use of the arms, or without grasping a player.

Indeed, but its never enforced.

I remember posting a gif of Biggar being hit by a samoan diving into a ruck ages back and everyone here said it was fine...hang on I'm off to the gwlad gif archive.....
[img] [/img]

And another example, this one after the whistle has gone.
[IMG] [/IMG]

Can tell it's half term this week ^^^

So in that spirit...

If Attwood was reckless when he knocked North out, then Hibbard was worse when he did it. Ball wasn't even close, should have been more careful where he put his head.
If it's about duty of care, then there's no exception just for being Welsh.

If Attwood was reckless when he knocked North out, then Hibbard was worse when he did it.

I dont recall Hibbard kicking anyone in the head.

After all the guff about how ace Coventry is, Tubby Goode has signed for Reading Samoans/NotNots

In open play are you saying you should be able to predict where someone's head might be and then not put your foot there or kick in that general direction?

If you see someone diving on the ball then you can either dive for it yourself with your arms or wait for then to get it and tackle. If someone is diving on the ball then you can bet their head won't be far behind! I do think Attwood had no intention of doing anything naughty but it is a bit like catchers putting themselves in a venerable position when jumping in the air- the other players around them have a responsibility to not be careless with their actions (IMO, maybe not in the letter of the law).

The Welsh prop is guilty as per the below IRB law

Rucks in internationals are brutal and there is a lot of potential for injury but you hardly ever see the infringements by the letter of the law pinged as A_A says. I can't say I like the Gethin-Hogg collision! I also hate seeing players removed with an arm around the neck and shoulder and twisted half ripping their heads off but that seems like fair game too 😐

Maybe the tub of lard wasnt offered a contract?

Attwood's attempt to fly hack the ball forward was totally legit

If he had kicked the ball and not someones head!

Anyway unpick this! Not sure its a high tackle but not sure its a knock on either

Oooh, I missed that as had to take the dog out. Seems the Scot made a deliberate effort to send the ball backwards. Footage didn't show if Clancy came in off the the touchline to have a word again. 🙂

Attwood was just trying to hack the ball on. If the defender wants to be brave and dive in to save the situation, that's up to him. Attwood was entitled to kick the ball, just that North's head beat him to it.

With the JD sin binning, he was looking for the ball but the real culprit was Sean Lamont who "eased" him into the collision, presumably banking on the yellow card.

Attwood was just trying to hack the ball on. If the defender wants to be brave and dive in to save the situation, that's up to him. Attwood was entitled to kick the ball, just that North's head beat him to it.

Not sure its a high tackle

He was stood fully upright with his arm out sideways, I know it's exacerbated by HK's height and the fact he was stumbling but It would have been pretty high even fully upright.

not sure its a knock on either

Not seen a definitive replay but at the time I couldn't believe they'd not gone upstairs - definitely too fine to be sure in real time to my mind.

Anyway unpick this! Not sure its a high tackle but not sure its a knock on either

At the time I thought the high tackle was definite and therefore more punishment seemed likely. Seeing it again it looks a bit more like a ducked tackle and a bit of a stumble... but other views show the contact and the scrum half does go down so it must have been a fair knock, i.e. high tackle 😕

With the knock on it seems any time the ball is dropped and not obviously hugely backwards then it gets called as a knock on. Dropped and slightly backwards or level seems to be given as a knock on nowadays. There wasn't a great view of it but I'm not convinced it went forwards either!

The referees confidence was definitely knocked early on. It was more like football referee decision making with the dallying and odd calls from being influenced by others rather than than authoritarian approach you usually see in rugby. Somewhere between this referees game and Steve Walsh's self belief will do nicely

It looks like the midget 9 ducks into webbs armpit to my eye!

With the knock on it seems any time the ball is dropped and not obviously hugely backwards then it gets called as a knock on.

That's what's known as a "Rugby League knock-on".

Somewhere between this referees game and Steve Walsh's self belief will do nicely

LOL indeed!

Jackson has been fast tracked by the NZRU as a referee. He played his last game for Sarries in 2010 IIRC.

Had the little scots fella not have ducked, he'd have been clotheslined. Webbs arm comes out from his shoulder horizontal to the floor i.e head height. High tackle in my book, but I have little tolerance for anything above centre of the chest so I'm perhaps not the best person to judge.

Had the little scots fella not have ducked, he'd have been clotheslined. 

But he did duck so Webb missed.

But he did duck so Webb missed.

Finn Russell cited and Owen Williams out for the season...

Not the same incident though!

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31490831 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31490831[/url]

There were a few dropped balls in that game that appeared to go straight down or even back, consistently given as forward. Still a question over Wynn Jones wide pass. It's one of those flat ball forward momentum moments.

[img] [/img]

Yep. Really.

Been visiting relatives as price for yesterday's pass.Second one first, trailing arm is Webb's responsibility. First one, jumper has to be protected according to the rules, then as THM alludes to we get to intent and also effect. You judge every incident on its merits based on the above AND what type of game it is, a holistic approach if you will. As to the whole pro rugby player knowing what they are doing at all times, sorry; that just isn't true in my experience. But then the citing officer has obviously got a different perspective. There is always a target area that is whistled tightly each month, Feb is obviously be-kind-to-the -jumper- month.

With the knock on it seems any time the ball is dropped and not obviously hugely backwards then it gets called as a knock on.

That's what's known as a "Rugby League knock-on".

Duckman, do you have any insider info as to how knock ons are asked to be refereed? Is it just that it is so hard to judge if a dropped ball is straight down or ever so slightly backwards in the heat of the moment that it is most practical to call anything not hugely backwards a knock on?

Watched the game again last night. It was a ****ing great catch by Biggar. Game in retrospect was a bit of a cripple fight if you'll excuse the unpc phrase. Wales could have really put scotland away early in the second half had they been on form. Also if Scotland had taken the opportunities they created it could have been very grim for Wales. Still dont get why Wales kicked for the corners rather than take 3 points it was so odd I can only think they wanted to run through the lineout and maul drills, saw similar things in the autumn. Then when AW Jones was interviewed at the end he suggested they should respect opponents more and take it a game at a time...hmmm..

Yep, Gatland made a lot of references afterwards about "getting the practice in" during the game

I hope everything is part of the normal 6N success plan aimed at the WC: Normally, awful Autumn = Great 6N. Maybe they are just shifting that cycle along a bit for Awful 6N = Great WC 😕 Playing sh1t is all part of the grand plan! 😆

With regard to the comment about France having no salary cap, I thought they did but that it was just huge compared to everyone else's at circa €10m.

Scotland will be kicking themselves Im sure because they did seem to create a lot of opportunities to score tries. They just fluffed them....not that I can comment as an Englishman because we're pretty adept at that too.

Competition in the air is getting silly now. Cases like Russell's challenge was dangerous and a clear yellow, but the Davies card seemed harsh. If we're not careful we'll get to the point where noone competes for the ball for fear of a penalty of yellow card.

CFH, I wonder why they didn't post it up for £100k, eh ? Just daft and for only 1 ticket so no use to the corporate market at all. The tickets for the 2007 final in Paris where changing hands for around £1,000 in the week before the match when the finalists where known. After the Aussies got knocked out in Marseilles fans where selling tickets at face outside the stadium for the semi-final (co-incidently these where around euro 100)

Playing sh1t is all part of the grand plan! 

Who is more deluded, them or us? 🙂

I paid £16 pounds for the Will Carling era WC final. The Austrailian scarf and corked hat came to more than that 😈

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/31479837 ]Heaslip out for four weeks. [/url]

Thankfully, just "damaged" vertebrae rather than fractured. He'll miss the England game. I'd rather an in-form Heaslip than Jordi Murphy, but hopefully he'll step up. Hope Pape spends the rest of the competition in the stands.

Thanks Duckman, interesting comments esp re the element of discretion. Also interested in your comment about players knowing what they are doing 100% of the time - we agree on this! I am staggered by the citing.

We certainly don't want to get to the point in football where the goalie now appears to have an exclusion zone around him. But still need to balance this with the safety of the player.

There was on incident where two welsh players (Roberst was one) and one Scot (Hogg?) all went up together with two Welsh players (unsurprisingly) winning the ball. From memory, I think they all committed and then closed their eyes. Not that far away from a slight mis timing and similar outcome to the cited incident.

Given the current level of physicality, rugby is now approaching a potential tipping point in terms of balancing extraordinary physicality and size, the need to protect players and maintaining the spectacle and essence of the game.

I have worked with Eng and Scottish internationals from the 80s and they were pretty crocked. What will this lot look like in 15 years time? Especially with all the pain hiding stuff and recovery (?) mixes.

Heaslip had been looking on form so that is a blow for Ireland. Since he got 5 weeks for 2 knees to the head of McCaw it would be harsh for Pape to get any more. 5 weeks may see Pape be able to return for the last game???

Next round should be interesting as it seems to be the pairings of the most evenly matched teams (roughly)

There was on incident where two welsh players (Roberst was one) and one Scot (Hogg?) all went up together with two Welsh players (unsurprisingly) winning the ball. From memory, I think they all committed and then closed their eyes. Not that far away from a slight mis timing and similar outcome to the cited incident.

All three went for the ball so no problem. Russel didnt, miss timed it/shit out and backed into Biggar. Maybe there was a lack of intent but he did the worst thing possible for the man in the air.

Given the current level of physicality, rugby is now approaching a potential tipping point in terms of balancing extraordinary physicality and size, the need to protect players and maintaining the spectacle and essence of the game.

I totally agree. As a spectator and ST holder as well as a parent (Junior Colts) I worry both at a professional level and watching my pride and joy at a junior lever. The level of physicality can be huge and the potential for injury is a concern. I do think the game may have to be significantly altered for it to be sustainable.
Only last week my son came up against an opposing player who was around 6.2" and I estimate around 16st. Other than one first minute "no arms" incident which could have been serious (and was not spotted) he played generally fairly however that size combined with the temperament of one of the incredibly aggresive types that most teams appear to have at least one of and it could have been a problem.

As I understand it, in NZ junior rugby is not based purely on age but also on size. If you happen to be a 6'2" monster at age 13, then they move the monster to a more size appropriate group. They then learn to play "around" their opponent and learn the basics of passing and catching a ball.

The northern hemisphere plays strictly to the age grades, where-by you end up with "monsters" at whatever age running over their opponents, rather than learning to play rugby they learn how to smash their way up the field, ALA Gats-ball.

When these "monsters" move up to senior level they're not the big kids any more and then struggle with the basics.

I think weight limits are a good idea for junior rugby.

Rugby Union has done nothing about player welfare since the professional era came about. The administrators have sat idly by while players have become fitter/faster/heavier/stronger and the game itself has become considerably more high impact.

The pitches are the same size as 100 years ago but they appear significantly smaller due to the modern player being able to cover them so quickly.

I would cut the number down from 15 to 13. Or maybe 12.

6 forwards and 6 backs?

It would be more like 7s. More space, less boshing up the middle, more running and passing so less emphasis on sheer power and bulk with greater endurance required.

[img] [/img]

3 good welsh boyo's

And I think this might be aimed at some of you

@JiffyRugby: 
Whatever you say as a co commentator you can't please everyone. #sotoughshit

anagallis_arvensis - Member

It looks like the midget 9 ducks into webbs armpit to my eye!

Nah, I reckon that Webb, knowing he was about to high tackle, swung his arm over the Scot's head, deliberately missing him. 😉

😆

It was just after Faletau arrived on the scene, I was watching a Wales v England match with some mates and a few comments about both sides with very obvious non "British" players. When I was asked were Faletau was "from", I replied one of the islands (meaning the South Pacific islands, not being sure at that point myself).

One of the lads replied with "What, Barry Island?"

You might have needed to be there with some beers on board, but it was quite funny at the time.

Faletau and the Vunipola's are cousins. Maku speaks with a welsh accent all three grew up in Wales. Should have got those two into the welsh system. Billy at 8, Talupe at 6 and Captain Sam at 7 would be one ****ing awesome backrow!!

Talupe looks ****ing tiny in that pic. Reminds of the pizza hut add with Tony Underwood and Lomu!!!

And I think this might be aimed at some of you

@JiffyRugby:
Whatever you say as a co commentator you can't please everyone. #sotoughshit

Anyone who expects Jiffy not to be one eyed is expecting the impossible.

Whatever you say as a cheerleader you can't please anyone who isn't Welsh.

It just proves that being a great player doesn't make you a great commentator. Jiffy's a nice bloke and all but he's a frigging awful commentator and just really annoying to listen to.

He's OK in the studio but they shouldn't let him behind the mike.

I' ve seen Shane Horgan somewhere - was it on BT Sport? - and I thought he came over surprisingly well. As does BOD, obviously.

Can't help but like the bloke. He is unashamedly biased and makes no apology for it "#sotoughshit" and I admire that. He is generally fair on the subject of fouls and referee decisions, unlike Wood and Nicol, who will just blame the oppo even if it's plain to see.

Davies, Wood, Nicol, Guscott etc are all employed [i]because[/i] they're partisan. It's what they're paid to do. They do provide a nice little opportunity for frustrations to be aired though.

There was a strange exchange between commentators in the Toulon v Sharks game a couple of weeks ago. I can't remember the exact wording but one said to the other something like " Do you think that our differences are because I ACTUALLY played rugby and all you've ever done is talk about it?" The other one said something like "Sorry, I didn't catch you, I was just checking the replacements." It seemed that they didn't get on at all!

Davies, Wood, Nicol, Guscott etc are all employed because they're partisan.

That's fine - as long as they keep them in the studio.

IdleJohn - good story. I wonder who it was?

Best bit of commentary I've heard recently was Andrew Johns bemoaning all on the "afters" that go on at the play-the-ball in the NRL nowadays. "They ruined it all by the changing the rules so now it's illegal for one bloke to punch another bloke."

Proper SA rugby commentary is the best. " And the two props are having a bit of how's your father" followed by " Now that's something you don't like to see in rugby football!"as one kicks the other.

Bigger Gray out for 6n. Oh well; hopefully we can find a second row who will bring a hard edge to the tight five.... 8)

Still not official but the Daily Mail (who are often correct with their RU reports apparently :-)) are reporting that Cipriani has signed a 2 yr deal with Sale which is great news. He has been outstanding for us since he joined and its nice to see he is not buggering off south now that he is back in the England fold (although he may not want to rock the boat in WC year) Working with kicking coach Steve Black may also be a factor.

A huge signing for us is the Dan Braid 1yr extension and commitment to coaching at Sale after that. Outstanding player 🙂

Cipriani deal reported in the London Times as well.

Bigger Gray out for 6n. Oh well; hopefully we can find a second row who will bring a hard edge to the tight five....

Is it true that there has been post match fan violence after any 6N games? (I don't believe it) Or before any games?

There was a piece on Sky Sports whereby Cipriani stated that playing for his country was influential on his decision to stay with an english club.

Good patriotic stuff from him eh.

Well, there's only so many times you can make the same mistake!

dbcooper - Member
Is it true that there has been post match fan violence after any 6N games? (I don't believe it) Or before any games?

Not in my experience. I'm sure there have fights in pubs, etc. But if you mean "organised" like football I very much doubt it. It's a very different culture. Football hooliganism was just violence masked as "football".

I was taken to many 5 Nations matches as a boy, first one was 1977, and through the 1980s. My grandad wouldn't have taken me if there was any possibility of violence.

I intervened in a fight in the Millenium Stadium a few years ago. (Only because I was trying to squeeze past to use the toilet when the fight started!)

One unfortunate thing I've noticed is that every international in Cardiff these days is jam-packed with people who don't know the first thing about rugby. They treat the day as a massive drinking session, not as a rugby game.

I'd not be surprised if there's an increase in the amount of violence because of this but haven't seen it.

I agree that there are a lot of people at Wales internationals that are not usually rugby fans.
Like what happened here (which is not particularly bad, and maybe not very well/accurately reported) seems like St Marys street on a friday night anyway.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/wales-v-england-idiotic-fans-8599135

There was a piece on Sky Sports whereby Cipriani stated that playing for his country was influential on his decision to stay with an english club.

Just after 1990, when there was a lot of political tension over the whole poll tax/daring to win the grand slam against Diana's blokes xv,there was a lot of abuse that went beyond the pale at the Murrayfield decider AND the 6N game and WC semi final the next season. There was a fairly large brawl outside the Haymarket tavern after the WC match. At Twickenham,I was there with the Ms Duck at the time and another couple and was called a "cross dressing porridge wog" I was living there at the time and met up with my clubmates as they used to run a trip down,a lot of the guys had fairly similar stories,including one guy who had his head split with a beer can. It has calmed down to a fair extent,but I suspect that this year could be pretty tense after Sept.

A bunch of lads I know went straight back to their hotel after the Eng/Wales game. They were getting a lot of shit and threatened etc. Apparently everyone was shitfaced and the atmosphere was menacing.
Reading the reports, it looks like they made the right decision.

Wales was the worst we have ever encountered. Pretty shocking.

The tunnel games were nothing....

I very much doubt there is a big money bid for him in France. He's no Sexton/Carter/Giteau or even Flood. In fact had Flood still been in England Cirpriani would not be in the squad.

According to the DT and others Toulon had made an offer to him for next season.

ChunkyMTB - Member
Wales was the worst we have ever encountered. Pretty shocking.

That does annoy me. After the failure of the "valleys industry" you'd have thought they'd thank us for creating money & employment while we pour money into that Bridge and the local economies when we visit the Trail centres.

I said it before - the WRFU exaggerated that sentiment with all the games and flashing lights and should be held responsible IMO. My suggested sanction are that all Anglo / Welsh games are held at Twicker 😀

The tunnel shenanigans was just poor sportsmanship, and I was all up for blaming the WRFU, as I know our players would never do that. But then I read an interview with Sam and he said he had hoped to leave the England team out on the pitch for 15 mins before they came out. I was ashamed. My english husband was jubilant at Sams confession.

There is plenty more that you won't know about.

There is plenty more that you won't know abou

Like what?

There is plenty more that you won't know about.

According to the DT and others Toulon had made an offer to him for next season.

He'd have made a boatload more than he is earning at Sale.

where was the sam warbs interview dbcooper?

I can't bloody find it now, all the ones I can find don't say that. I know my husband has it bookmarked cos he sent it to all his mates, so I'll get it tonight.

thank you

Russell got another two weeks. Townsend nails it,he apologises on twitter for coaching players to keep their eye on the ball. After cement head rabbiting on about it,we should play his game and cite Jenkins. That was at least as bad,and Garland wants players protected.

Kryton57 - Member

Why don't you start a thread on religion if you want to spout that sort of idiotic,trolling pish?

Seen this on twitter. Funny.

Seen this #Finnocent hashtag. Why won't the Scots accept the decision with the same grace & dignity that us Welsh did with Warburton's red?…

😆

Two thousand! 😀