So whilst in a cafe today I saw the headline in the Mail..(I didnt read further or even touch the hateful rag) and it read England flop at Twickenham. Is a loss to SA a flop now for this team of world beaters?
Who is positioning england as world beaters?
The Mail. If its a flop to lose to the best team in the world one week and the second best the next it must follow that they think England should have won. Or have I missed something ( I realise its the Mail too they probably still think St Johnnies playing)
It's not a flop to loose to the best 2 sides in the world.
It is a flop to have a huge playing base, a wealth of talent available along with unlimited resources and yet try to play rugby by numbers, with no plan B, no invention and no soul.
It doesn't help ignoring the "flash" players, relying on statistics to choose your team and constantly rewarding mediocrity.
I NEVER thought I'd say this - but I'd almost rather be Welsh.
AA has it right, anyone calling for Lancaster to go needs to remember where England were under MArtin Johnson.......throwing dwarves and jumping off ferries.
Robshaw and Wood outstanding and incredibly consistent
nothing matter now world cup is 11 months and players form and injury will change BUT giving a squad the opportunity to play is imperative but drop Hartley he is a liability for penalities
decision making needs to improve across the squad
I would have liked to have seen ciprani given a chance
Scotland will be intresting in the 6 nations I feel they can and will take some scalps, Wales especially.
AA has it right, anyone calling for Lancaster to go needs to remember where England were under MArtin Johnson
Doesn't go with:
I would have liked to have seen ciprani given a chance
SL brought humility and respect back into the England camp - but then our local Scoutmaster could've done the same. SL is not an international coach and neither is AF. I'm not calling for them to be gone. It's too late for that. They need to throw away their bloody laptops and start actually watching rugby rather than analyzing stats.
Why is Care so dynamic for 'Quins and rubbish for England? Where is Cipriani? Why do we have a pack who can take on the very best yet a team who can't?
Put the England pack with the Irish halves and the Welsh 3/4s and you'd be in business!
Put the England pack with the Irish halves and the Welsh 3/4s and you'd be in business!
that would a lions tour then.........
Watching the Wasps/Welsh game - L.Welsh really are dire aren't they?
They must be playing to an empty stadium at home games, who on earth would pay money to watch this week in, week out - and I say that as a Sale fan!
Why is Care so dynamic for 'Quins and rubbish for England?Â
Same reason Rhys Webb is so good for Ospreys and poor for Wales, the opposition are better. Quims more often than not give him front foot ball too.
Well that's one reason maybe but also it's probably because any individuality seems to be drummed out of the English players once they reach the national side.
England do produce front foot ball - if a little slow.....
I NEVER thought I'd say this - but I'd almost rather be Welsh.
You can support whichever national team you like, just ask CFH!
England were under MArtin Johnson.......throwing dwarves and jumping off ferries.
You do know that no England players threw any dwarves don't you?
Watching the Wasps/Welsh game - L.Welsh really are dire aren't they?
71-7!!! 😆
@aa The Mail needs sensationalist headlines,"narrow loss" doesn't qualfiy
@namaster Cirpiani is where he should be, in the wilderness. He is a talented player, was given a great chance was wasn't as good as he thought (found out against Boks in particular). Was unlucky with nasty injury but showed poor application generally and no discipline off the field. IMO not right in the head so that's it he's gone. He failed to grasp what was required at international level off the field in terms of preparation so he's had his chance, that ship has sailed.
I am at a loss to explain how Martin Johnson was such an influential and frankly intimidating skipper but as a coach seemed to lack the respect of the team.
SL has earned his chance. Johnson didn't. He was on a hiding to nothing, and should never have been persuaded to take the role.
MJ ejected Cipriani for a severe attitude problem (the rumour mill says he actually physically ejected him for being a complete gobshite). He got an injury and lost a yard of pace then went to Oz and his defensive frailties were a running joke.
Has he sorted himself out? I don't know but he's playing some tasty rugby.
apologies wrecker, you are correct
should have read went to a bar that happen to have dwarf throwing as 'entertainment'
still unacceptable in a world cup though...........
still unacceptable in a world cup though...........
It was interesting reading the irish view on it. The england team were very cagey with the press, not permitting a high level of access. The Irish went about it differently and took the journos on the lash (and admitted that the england team did nothing that they didn't). As a result some boundaries were respected.
Another example of poor management.
Whilst the welsh stayed sober and battered ireland senseless.
Any excuse
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for a professional sport player/s in the midst of a world cup to go on the lash is unacceptable,
wales have proved effectively the sports conditioning is essential, SL has improved England immeasurably as a group and unit something a scoutmaster could not have done, so far England are playing like England strong forwards and forward game. I would like to see more creativity and line breaks, but I would rather it all peaked for the world cup, no good beating everyone now amd not then. SL is aiming for the world cup and doing a great job
Vern Cotter at Scotland is intresting, gone back to the national side traditions and strength, or has just inherited all of G townsend work at Glasgow?
The logic of letting players out was to relieve some of the stress, a world cup is a real pressure cooker atmosphere. Always used to be a part of the Lions tours. You should ask yourself how much of the England stuff was stoked up by the Kiwi locals and press ?
AA has it right, anyone calling for Lancaster to go needs to remember where England were under MArtin Johnson.......
We had a slightly better win ratio and won a sx nations if I remember rightly? Not sure what SL and the league forward who's now in charge of our backs have yet managed to win?
the league forward who's now in charge of our backs
I was at the match with a school friend of Mike Catt's (fellow South African 😉 ) and I was asking him how it was we had a league forward with a poor record in Union on the senior coaching staff why Catt had a more junior role. I was no admirer of Catt as an international fly half but when he moved to centre he was more in his element and his creativity and passing where excellent
. I was no admirer of Catt as an international fly half but when he moved to centre he was more in his element and his creativity and passing where excellent
I must have missed that game.
I must have missed that game.
He played well at full back too.
I was at the match with a school friend of Mike Catt's (fellow South African ) and I was asking him how it was we had a league forward with a poor record in Union on the senior coaching staff why Catt had a more junior role
Did he furnish you with an answer?
Cirpiani is where he should be, in the wilderness. He is a talented player, was given a great chance was wasn't as good as he thought (found out against Boks in particular). Was unlucky with nasty injury but showed poor application generally and no discipline off the field. IMO not right in the head so that's it he's gone. He failed to grasp what was required at international level off the field in terms of preparation so he's had his chance, that ship has sailed.
Mostly true but he's matured and knuckled down the last couple of seasons and is still what? 26? He was poorly handled by MJ.
He went on the tour to NZ and acquitted himself well and has played some blinders for Sale this season. Not good enough it seems. After the RWC he'll be off to France, if he has any sense.
He's still the only English FH who can do this:
Edwards has never played union but is an excellent coach. I dont think it matters.
I dont think it matters.
You're right - it doesn't matter that Farrell came from league. It does matter that he is NOT an excellent coach.
BTW the best game of rugby I watched over the weekend was the NZ/Aus Rugby League 4 Nations final. Brilliant match.
He's still the only English FH who can do this:
George Ford not only can, but regularly does. Didn't rate him at Leicester, but damn good at Bath.
You're right - it doesn't matter that Farrell came from league. It does matter that he is NOT an excellent coach.
Agreed, however I just couldn't see how, with watching Saracens play a defensive, forwards only game while he coached there, that anyone could possibly think he would do any different for England. Rightly enough, with all the fire power available, England back line hasn't looked like a threat for the last few years. the players are there. They do it for there clubs. What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what's there and results in a game by numbers?
What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what's there and results in a game by numbers?
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They do it for there clubs. What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what's there and results in a game by numbers?
'puters. How else can you explain that, and despite the positive comments re Mike Catt, you rarely see the England 3/4 do anything other than pass down the line and fail to follow [s]ball carrier[/s] Mike Brown?
What is so wrong with the England set up that it prevents any playing of what's there and results in a game by numbers?
all teams play by the numbers.........or to a plan ...otherwise we would all be watching Fiji who are wonderful players but need a plan see Wales at the weekend.
Would any of the england back line get into the AB's or Boks? Brown maybe but that is it. You may have to face up to the fact that they aren't that good? I think any spontineity they have is coached and drilled out of them from an early age.
It's hard to see much from that Youtube vid, but I recon that try is as much to do with bad defending as any great play on Cipriani's. International defence's aren't going to make those mistakes on a regular basis.
Would any of the england back line get into the AB's or Boks?
Good question. I can see Tuilagi in there, maybe Brown but other than that, no I can't. Having said that, I can't help but think that Burrel, 12Trees, Ford, Cipriani, Yard, Wade, Strettle etc would actually be very good players if they were allowed to play an attacking game every so often and had the ability to try something that if didn't work out, didn't result in a potential team demotion. All the exciting players are allowed to play, look at the super 12/14/15 (whatever they are this week) and how ome of the Irish / Welsh boys have gone off the boil now that they are in the Top 14.
There's no doubt in my mind that the weekly grind of playing conservative rugby slowly strips a player of the ability to play a game that challanges those that do.
However, I've also watched players who are absolutely on fire for Leicester, go away to England training and come back with terrible facets to there paying. The step and pass scrum half is the most telling of these, something I noticed Care starting to do as well at the weekend. It's certainly something Harry Ellis and Ben Youngs picked up on international duty.
its tic tactical, draw defenders in for the pop pass to an oncoming forward (or Jamie Roberts if your Welsh).
put Ford, 12trees, Yarde and Wade in the England backline and every decent team will steamroller them
spontaneity doesnt help at that level the All Blacks are the least spontaneous team in world rugby, they create gaps and then exploit it, its all planned. England create gaps but often lack the basic skills to draw a man and pass to players in space.
case in point, fast forward to about 1hour 30 mins, last play look at where 1/2p starts near the ruck its flung wide and no one straightens so 1/2p can make the tackle. Awful play by pro players
Tuilagi no chance, a one trick bish bash bosh pony, Brown was exceptional last year but so far this year hasn't shone. It is the way england won the world cup, monster pack suck in all the defenders throw it out wide or rely on saint jonny to kick the inevitable penalties. england have never been a flair team. It is just the way they play.
Edwards has never played union but is an excellent coach. I don't think it matters.
@aa this is true, no doubt. But he started in club rugby learning his trade and if I correct focused on defense initially for England before making the move to Wales.
Brown (first choice) and Tuilagi (sub) would make AB/Boks backline IMO, so agree with those above.
Who would Brown replace????
Ha ha preface hits the jackpot, who indeed.
Who the hell is Preface 😆
The bloke who posted just before I did 🙂
Brown is a good player who had an exceptional season last year and is now showing that he's merely a good player again.
Foden is a far more talented player and it's another huge mistake leaving him out. Delon Armitage is up there too although he fails the d***head test.
No-one from the England back line would make the ABs. Tuilagi over Conrad Smith? You must be joking? OK Smith got burned by May but look at his other 83 tests where he was nigh on the perfect centre.
