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Certainly a different game in the second half!
Ha, Firenze blatantly shoving Robertson and then throwing his toys because he was shoved back. Humiliating.
Well done Liverpool. Pretty much evening money against Real. Salah against Marcelo anyone?!
Well.... over the 2 legs, that was a dull affair 😳
Never in doubt .......... Gulp
I reckon the final will go 0-0 and penalties
I hope binners is ok. He is the consomethinge football fan on this thread. No-one is a better fan than him - he pays out of his hard earned money to watch his lightning red men play on his TV while he drinks his beer. I know he'll have been hoping for the other red men he seems to hate so much to lose tonight, so I hope he doesn't feel the need to beat anyone up over all this.
Some right wonkys in the Liverpool crowd! 😮😀
Easy that. Just keeping the crowd entertained.
Wooooooooooooooooooppp!!
That penalty was a joke, much like the one in the first game.
Just back from Stirling Albion vs Peterhead in the Scottish League 2 playoffs.
Lost 1-0 but at least we didn't get humped. Even if there is a miracle and we win the second leg and then the final playoff we'll get humped every week in League 1.
What are you lot talking about?
Christ on a bike!
final should be good.:-)
Alexander-Arnold = future captain.
Liverpool good but very brittle. Never a penalty. Referee played well until then.
Entertaining game but felt fairly comfortable - none of the tension of the 'tide turning' in the previous game and the MC match. Would have been different if the Roma goals had come earlier, but I think they'd given up hope by half time..
Still seem to lack concentration at the back when they're up against it whilst relying on out-scoring their opponents.. not sure we have progressed from a few seasons ago under BR (still think he was hard done by). Not necessarily a bad thing - certainly makes for entertaining matches one way or another!
Over the 2 legs it was 7-1 to Liverpool whilst I was on Zwift, 0-5 when I was off. I'd better do a longer session for the final!
Entertaining game but felt fairly comfortable
Would have been a lot more comfortable but for two ridiculous penalties and the best own goal in Champions League history.
For both ridiculous penalties the ball was handled, so its down to the rather vague rules as to whether the ref blows or not. However you didn’t mention the two stonewall penalties that weren’t given when TAA deflected the ball over the bar with his arm and also the GK taking out their player in the box.
Nevermind you’re through and that’s all that matters. Tonight is hopefully going to be interesting with us scoring late to go through 0-1. I’m not putting any money on that though! 😬
The TAA one wasn't a penalty, either: It wasn't deliberate and he was too close to react. The 2 penalties Roma got were not even close to being penalties. I don't think they are even debatable. oh, and their opener was a stroke of unbelievable luck, for them.
Don't forget, we had a stonewall penalty not given when Mane was fouled in the first half. Not to mention a number of offside decisions that went against us (and for us, in a few cases.
Overall, the 4-2 scoreline flattered Roma and made the tie appear closer than it actual was.
Point 1. I am not a Liverpool fan, so there's no 'we're through' to it. Of course I wanted the English team(s) to progress and I'd favour Liverpool over most of the other suspects (Mancs of either persuasion, and certainly Chelsea) but there's no 'we' beyond that. My comments are from a mainly non-biased perspective.
Point 2. I'm a qualified Ref and as such possibly better placed to comment on aspects of law. And my first comment is that the handball law is a mess.
From the FA website, in itself a copy of the FIFA one:
HANDLING THE BALL
Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.
The following must be considered:
- the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
- the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
- the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence
- touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an offence
- hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an offence
**
In respect of all the handballs we saw in this tie (both legs) by the letter of the laws I'd reckon that none of them were 'deliberate'. But then you have interpretation, and people adding their own nuances like hands being in an un-natural position (which then leads to interpretation that by charging at a ball with arms up you are increasing your blocking area and then if the ball hits your hands above your head you deliberately put them there..... and so on)
I think the only solution becomes one of if it touches the hand, it's a handball - but then are players skillful enough to try to hit a hand or arm and so earn fouls and penalties in that way. Maybe a 'non deliberate' ball to hand offence is only an indirect freekick; to be a penalty it has to be clearly hand to ball?
Thirdly; the Mane push was a penalty that should have been given. The Karius 'foul' on Dzeko that you claim was stonewall - the ball wasn't even in play, he'd been given offside already!! If you want a penalty for that, you'll be claiming the goals scored in the prematch warm-up next!
Oh - point 4; good luck tonight. I'm not an Arsenal* fan either and i think Arsene has overstayed but I also respect him for his footballing ethos and ethics, and I'd love it if you can deliver him a big trophy as a retirement gift.
* my teams are way shitter than any of the one's I've mentioned before........ particularly this year.
So Arsenal to drift into mid table mediocrity?
Such a frustrating performance from Arsenal.
Get into a fantastic position 1 on 1 with the full back on the edge of the box.
Cross? No, of course not.
Take the full back on? No, of course not.
Shoot? You must be joking.
Pass the ball back to the centre midfield and repeat endlessly? Yes, of course.
Take a b****y chance at some point to try and score a goal for heavens sake. There's just a fear of losing the ball and only situations where they can walk the ball into the goal unopposed are welcomed.
The amount of quick breaks that have ended up with a forward turning away from goal and passing it to Xhaka to pass it sideways again is just ludicrous.
What's more mindblowing is that they did exactly the same against 10 men in the first leg. They don't deserve to get to the final. They could have won this, they really could have, but their attacking aggression is virtually zero.
Well at least Wenger goes out at the level he’s brought us down to.....semi final of the EL FFS!
take your millions and bugger off into retirement and hopefully we can find the right manager to build us back up again!
Well at least Wenger goes out at the level he’s brought us down to…..semi final of the EL FFS!
Want to step it up then you need to let a couple of hundred million go!!
I'm no Arsenal supporter, but I found that quite frustrating to watch. So many good opportunities ending with a back pass or an awful cross.
Aaron Ramsey, I just don't get what he does. That second half he kept giving the ball away and then strolling back. There was even one point when he gave it away (again) and as AM counter attacked Lacazette ran back to help defend and when Arsenal win the ball back the camera pans out and there's Ramsey just wandering into the Arsenal half! Found it staggering that they took Wilshere off, who I thought looked pretty decent in the 2nd half. Hopefully he might have a part to play in Russia this Summer. Is Wilshere's contract still up this summer?
Is Wilshere’s contract still up this summer?
Yeah and frankly a lot of gooners would be pleased to see him go. He played well at the start of the season, but has deteriorated and almost never gets in front of goal anymore.....his injury causing but havoc inducing runs forward ,seem to be a thing of the past.
It was just a typical Wenger performance and only he can be blamed for it. Incredibly he had options on the bench and just fiddled while Rome burnt! Long past his sell by date and we can only look forward now....with hope!
In respect of all the handballs we saw in this tie (both legs) by the letter of the laws I’d reckon that none of them were ‘deliberate’. But then you have interpretation, and people adding their own nuances like hands being in an un-natural position (which then leads to interpretation that by charging at a ball with arms up you are increasing your blocking area and then if the ball hits your hands above your head you deliberately put them there….. and so on)
I've never really got the handball law as for years, players were penalised despite it being clearly accidental. If the ball is going in the net and the ball hits an arm that is sticking out, generally its a penalty......despite it not being intentional. It does seem that Refs now have a bit more guidance as to awarding free kicks and penalties and are waving away more appeals on the basis that its accidental.....so the two awarded against LFC in both legs seem ridiculous when compared with others that aren't given. Its the refs thatr are the problem.....no consistency!
I wouldn't worry about what ramsey does as he's pretty much already gone,the most entitled fans in the world will have to find someone else to whine about.
I think they'd be mad to let him go. He looks a different sort of player, but still better than Ramsey, Xhaka and any other option they have. To me, he looked in control of that midfield last night. Playing great little balls in to the forwards and still has the ability to get past a player with his skill. I admit I haven't seen him that often this season so might well be as useless as the rest of the Arsenal midfield, but he certainly stood out last night.
the most entitled fans in the world will have to find someone else to whine about
Just as well that they have plenty of other options for that then.
Its the refs that are the problem…..no consistency!
So, you bring in hard and fast rulings (International Board Decisions, to give them their proper name) of how to interpret particular situations, the Ref's interpret them rigidly, and then players, managers, commentators and fans, most of whom don't actually ever read the laws let alone the massive pile of IBD's behind the laws, all complain that a/ refs know the laws but not the game and b/ should have used common sense / discretion.
Trouble is, that a lot of the time the players, managers, and spectators (or indeed parents) are expressing their complaints at considerable volume and with liberal addition of fruity language, about 8 inches from you. Which is why I'm qualified, I still read my LOAF every year, but I can't be bothered to go over the white line and actually referee games other than an occasional one for a mate's school team every so often.
And the commentators..... thankfully a few channels now have ex Ref's if not on their panels, somewhere in a studio telling them what the law really says.
thankfully a few channels now have ex Ref’s if not on their panels, somewhere in a studio telling them what the law really says.
From what I've seen, they don't seem to know any more than anyone else: The guy doing the Roma/Liverpool game said the TAA incident was a definite penalty: If you go by the laws of the game, it clearly wasn't.
From what I’ve seen, they don’t seem to know any more than anyone else: The guy doing the Roma/Liverpool game said the TAA incident was a definite penalty: If you go by the laws of the game, it clearly wasn’t.
Haha...thats right he did! And before that another Ref was prevaricating when asked to confirm something.....and that's from the comfort of a TV studio with ages to consider it. I suppose it does show how difficult the job is, before taking into account the crowd and the players etc.
the most entitled fans in the world
Really? I don't see it myself.....we've just seen a Club in a great position with huge potential for the future, systematically run into the ground by poor management! I would say the most disappointed, but we can't compete with Spurs for that one! 🙂
The guy doing the Roma/Liverpool game said the TAA incident was a definite penalty: If you go by the laws of the game, it clearly wasn’t.
Graham Poll.
While I agree that by the LAWS it wasn't deliberate in the sense he didn't specifically try to handle it - the TAA one fits the interpretation i gave earlier:
that by charging at a ball with arms up you are increasing your blocking area and then if the ball hits your hands above your head you deliberately put them there
There's also a sort of interpretation that in blocking a shot going toward the goal you are having a more direct influence on the game, than for example charging down a cross that might lead to chance, but equally might lead to a clearance, or the ball sailing miles over the goal line.
That said, i can only assume the officials didn't see the handball because in the light of the ones they gave where hands were in a 'natural' position, that was the clearest of the three!!
Well at least Wenger goes out at the level he’s brought us down to…..semi final of the EL FFS!
Want to step it up then you need to let a couple of hundred million go!!
Maybe! However we do have some good young players and I think a new Manager might be able to get more out our seasoned players......who don't get shown the door. Clearly we need a new spine, but even young Mavrapanos showed on his debut at Man U that he could step in and do a very good job.
Whatever happens, it won't be the same old, same old, we've had for years! Last nights game was a perfect example of the Wenger years....plenty of possession, fragile defence and no goals!
When people think of Arsenal these days.....they think its a team of lightweights. Something we need to change!
another example - the defensive wall at a free kick. If players were to hold their arms slightly aside from their bodies - you could probably make a wall the width of a 5 or 6 man wall with only three men. So as long as they just stand there like that if the free kick is then stopped by an arm as opposed to smashing them in the guts - not deliberate?
Clearly not - you deliberately put your arms there to increase your area, hence it's a 'deliberate' handball.
When throwing yourself at the ball the "natural" place for your arms to be is anywhere but at your sides.
Use long jumpers as an analogous example. They use their arms as leverage and they are invariably in positions that football pundits call unnatural for defenders diving in.
None of them were penalties because none of them were either intentional or the arms placed intentionally to block the ball.
The fact that very rarely are handballs punished with yellow cards for being deliberate, when by definition every single one should be, tells us all we need to know about how they are incorrectly refereed.
Anyway, just seen Brighton's line up vs United.
Hats off to Hughton for keeping that motley rabble in the Premier League.
Put a big screen and projector in the MalMaison hotel yesterday for Utd's pre match briefing today. Judging by the first half none of the team were bothering to watch!
Interesting stuff.
Would love to have been a fly on the wall at half-time. Jose had a right face on.
Goal line technology is fantastic.
If only they can get offsides down to a similar speed. That's the dream.
Steven Gerrard as the new Rangers boss, eh? That's a big job, lots of pressure. Hope he does well. Celtic were there for the taking this year but Rangers fluffed it each time.
Question is, will be be a Souness or a Barnes.
I see your point but the fact is that it is possible to jump without raising arms - you can't jump as high, or as far but you can. If you choose to use arms and as a result increase your body area, then you do so deliberately and take the risk if it hits your arm then it's handball. Other players nowadays put their arms quite consciously behind their backs to avoid handballing it. Take your choice?
The fact that very rarely are handballs punished with yellow cards for being deliberate, when by definition every single one should be, tells us all we need to know about how they are incorrectly refereed.
Sorry, but you're wrong. I assume after what i said you did read the Laws and the IFAB advice relating to them? http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-12---fouls-and-misconduct
I'll save you the bother:
Q3: Why has the wording for a caution (YC) for handball changed?Some referees were interpreting every handball as ‘denying the opponents possession’ so every handball was punished with a caution (YC) - this was not the intention of the Law. Where a handball affects the opponents it should be judged like a foul – if it stops or interferes with a promising attack then it is a caution (YC).
So the law is being applied exactly as directed by the board that sets the laws. Yes, there does seem to be a discrepancy in the use and definition of deliberate but that's why clarification is given. As I would frequently say to players as I refereed them - I didn't write the laws, I just apply them as directed.
More than a bit pleased with that tonight. Chris Hughton deserves an immense amount of credit but the players have really stepped up from the championship
WBA.....if they stay up it will almost rank with Leicester winning the league! Unbelievable run of results!
Hope they do stay up but still a long shot. Glad Stoke have gone, hopefully Southampton will follow.