And so our resident “left wingers” embrace the right wing populists… as our rights are eroded, democracy is diluted, checks and balances on the executive are eroded, our public legal, health, care and education services are defunded, the rich get richer, the tax burden shifted onto the shoulders of the less well off and away from the well off and international businesses, the poor struggle to eat and heat, our economy falters… Truss as a “new broom”… what a joke… it’s just the continuing Tory farce. Another two years of this, at least. Heaven help us.
Labour Party members overwhelmingly elected an anti-establishment leader and the Labour Party establishment rather than support him crushed him
No, what happened is that he was rejected at the ballot box, by the British people. Including you. Why didn’t you join us in voting Labour in 2019?
No
Er yes, rejection at the ballot box is completely irrelevant to the point that I made.
Which despite copying and pasting it yourself you have completely missed.
The Labour Party establishment did not support him, and they certainly did everything possible to undermine him.
Some Labour Party establishment figures even proudly and publicly boasted that they did so on a daily basis:
And so our resident “left wingers” embrace the right wing populists
An unreasonable observation.
Nobody is embracing anything. But at the very least she's offering stuff up that's better for Tories than what Starmer is offering up for left-wingers.
After all - it's not hard because us left-wingers have been offered nothing.
And actually she's a pretty good talker. Way ahead of anything else I've seen recently on the political stage.
But none of this means we embrace anything.
The Labour Party establishment did not support him
Why didn’t you support him in 2019 Ernie? If he couldn’t count on your vote, why bother berating anyone else that wouldn’t support him?
And actually she’s a pretty good talker.
She’s an excellent bullshitter. Nothing new is being offered. Johnson played the same game of promising investment that (in the North especially) just never appeared. This is just more of the same. The same farce, just a different arse sitting on the throne.
And so our resident “left wingers” embrace the right wing populists…
And your evidence for this is what, exactly?
berating anyone else that wouldn’t support him?
You don't think that berating the Labour Party establishment for not supporting the Labour Party leader is valid?
You have no idea how or even if I voted in 2019, and it is completely irrelevant to the point (which is obviously why you want to bring it up). I have never been anything other than an affiliated member of the Labour Party, I have never been a full member, people like me aren't allowed full membership, and I have certainly never been part of the Labour Party establishment.
You said that you couldn’t vote for him in 2019 because he was “woke”. Of course that might not have been true. Only you know. Of course it’s relevant… if you must bang on about the last Labour leader, and how he was let down by everyone else… reflect on whether you did all you could to support him.
Anyway, back to our next PM… Truss… that she won’t be constrained as regards borrowing as she funnels public money into the pockets of party donors and predatory multinational interests is nothing to welcome. More of the same… Tories nearly always borrow big… just look where the money goes though…
Truss promising to cut every kind of tax there is: VAT, green levy, corporation tax, fuel duty, and slash the civil service , whilst simultaneously boosting police numbers, fixing the NHS, fix the courts, move faster on new nuclear than Johnson (who was already promising the impossible) unleash farming by slashing regulations, superboost the economy....
It's lala land, it may play well with the swivel eyed loons of the Tory membership , but it's not going to stand up in an election campaign & while she'll be able to sell the sunlit uplands for a while.
There's an actual cost of living crisis out there to be dealt with.
You said that you couldn’t vote for him in 2019 because he was “woke”.
Well obviously that isn't true, but you talking nonsense is nothing new.
You want to distort a previous comment I made concerning the furore surrounding the allegation that Corbyn call Theresa May a stupid woman.
The idea that it was a deciding issue for me on how or if I would vote is of course ridiculous. Whatever criticism I might have had of Corbyn's handling of the situation.
Truss will win with leaky bucket promise land dreams that people see getting pored in.
It will of course be all pissed out the bottom by election time.
She will get 5 more years too. Labour have that dead eye look about them and I don't think they will shake it off, they really are like the dog you don't want to put down but it keeps barking at the wind and shitting on the rug.
Blair* back before you know it.
*And that will be shit.
There’s an actual cost of living crisis out there to be dealt with.
Well said kimbers.
When do you think the Labour leadership will mount an effective opposition, offer credible alternatives, and stand shoulder to shoulder with those fighting to defend their living standards?
It’s amazing to me that so called sensible left-centrists are now preaching the Sunak mantra of austerity, just like their sensible bannerman Starmer. Have you guys not worked this out yet? People have figured out the scam that is is neoliberal trickle up economics. They now want a slice of the same pie that the rich have been gouging on for the past 40 years. Including it seems a majority of tory grassroots members and their prospective new leader.
It’s not about the total borrowed… it’s about what the money is spent on. It’s not about the total tax take… it’s about who pays the tax. Truss will not invest in your area, your schools, your hospitals… and if you think she will… you’re a mug. Again. This is just Johnson again. No change. “Tax cutting” while putting up your taxes. “Investing” while pulling the plug on investment in your area. Yes, there is a good chance the voters will fall for exactly the same kind of “levelling” up lies again… but don’t give it credence yourselves… wake up. It’s a con so obvious she may as well have “CON” tattooed across her forehead.
and if you think she will… you’re a mug.
Don’t be ridiculous. Neither me or anyone else on ‘the left’ thinks she will. We’re talking about getting elected, something which centrists are supposed to be experts at. Yet the people preaching good sensible centrism like starmer and sunak are unpopular, and those willing to question the dogma of a failed economic system (even if they don’t believe it it) are reaping the rewards. If you think starmer will beat truss with his Scrooge act when sunak can’t you’re in fantasyland.
What was I saying a day or two ago about Truss being the best British PM Scotland could wish for, and the reaction from the crowd of Tory fascist acolytes is just the cherry on top.
https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1554190178146828288?s=21&t=LyKHuktQP7ETaGayCcAdKg
Jesus, if you think what Sunak has been saying in his leadership campaign makes him a centrist, no wonder you use term the way you do, as disparagingly as you do, as often as you do. Both of these Tory hopefuls are pushing hard on the right wing buttons of their membership.
The Tories will win again if their new lies can successfully help people forget their last lot of lies. Again. Which, lets face it, you’d be crazy to bet against. I think we can agree on that.
Actually no, centrist was the wrong word. Both he and starmer are neoliberalists. Two sides of the same shit coin that has failed people for 40 years. It’s so f***ing obvious even many traditional tories can see it.
Liz Truss says she would "just ignore" the democratically-elected leader of the second largest nation in the United Kingdom
+
https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1554196629078642693?s=21
Liz Truss is going to do it, they're all falling in line, who'd have thought we'd have a serious lightweight like Truss as our PM, it beggars belief.
As for all the neolibertarian or whatever the bands name is, god it's honestly getting boring, you hate the tories, we get it, you hate Starmer and his Labour even more, we get that in bucketloads as well, keep whinging away without any thought of a solution, other than magic money tree, sorry i mean modern monetary theory, as used to great effect by so many nations around the world.
It’s so f***ing obvious even many traditional tories can see it.
Which ones? Who? What have they said? You can’t mean Truss. She will offer the common person nothing of substance while PM, and will turbo charge “neoliberalism” not pull the plug on it, or even seek to restrain it and protect the public from its harms. More deregulation of the private sector and defunding of the public sector is coming. Don’t cheer its coming because Truss promises you anything and everything. She’s lying.
Don’t cheer its coming because Truss promises you anything and everything.
Jeez you’ve completely missed my point. Which is weird because it’s not exactly complicated. Centrist establishment politics will never beat populists like Johnson and Truss. Trust in establishment politics and politicians has disappeared across the political spectrum. Even the f***ing tories don’t believe in it any more! If you want rid of truss, the answer isn’t Starmer or his pathetic band of shadow cabinet cowards.
keep whinging away without any thought of a solution
Is that a sly dig at Starmer?
He says that the pandemic has changed everything and that is why at the moment he only has a "clean slate".
I really think we need a multi party coalition of 3 or 4 parties, not including the conservatives.
Labour are a bunch of tossers just as much as the Conservatives are.
Until that utterly predictable status quo is broken, we're pretty much doomed as a country.
keep whinging away without any thought of a solution,
To quote a famous scientist the definition of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. Do you honestly believe that any of our mainstream politicians have the answers to the problems they themselves caused?
https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-gb-voting-intention-31-july-2022/
The Tories will undoubtedly be very pleased with the latest opinion poll. Not only do they appear to be closing the gap with Labour but at 4% the Labour lead is rather less than might be reasonably expected in the mid-term of a general election cycle.
the electorate is clearly enjoying this lurch to the right.
More cuts and austerity promised by Truss. Targeted outside the South East… (quelle surprise)…
other than magic money tree, sorry i mean modern monetary theory, as used to great effect by so many nations around the world.
You can't really make that point with your level of understanding here.
It's not used to great effect - it's a description of the monetary system.
It's been like it for 40 years.
As for all the neolibertarian or whatever the bands name is, god it’s honestly getting boring, you hate the tories, we get it, you hate Starmer and his Labour even more, we get that in bucketloads as well, keep whinging away without any thought of a solution, other than magic money tree, sorry i mean modern monetary theory, as used to great effect by so many nations around the world.
Your larger point here it to misunderstanding the role of the state and how it gets is cash.
Centrists and liberals will never understand that if they want a better society neoliberalism is not going to do it.
By definition it can't because the state needs to put the cash in.
Call it boring but it's how it works.
Currently in the USA the democrats are celebrating tightening government budgets and suprise suprise they're in recession.
One minute it's about electability and Centrism and doing nothing; is the path to victory, then when the Tories turn a corner and more or less over night turn some of the polling around - Truss is a despicable populist for offering stuff up to a her voters!
Meanwhile what's Starmer doing - sacking Tarry and offering nothing to his Labour supporters when they most need it.
It's embarrassing that this is all about how bad the Tories are for being successful and not how shit Starmer is especially when his core voters are desperate.
Who's really putting the brakes on here?
The Tories will undoubtedly be very pleased with the latest opinion poll. Not only do they appear to be closing the gap with Labour but at 4% the Labour lead is rather less than might be reasonably expected in the mid-term of a general election cycle
The whole cycle is going to reset again for the Tories.
There will be bumps for sure though but our man Starmer doesn't want to seize these it appear.
Establishment wants both political parties.
Truss promising to cut every kind of tax there is: VAT, green levy, corporation tax, fuel duty, and slash the civil service , whilst simultaneously boosting police numbers, fixing the NHS, fix the courts, move faster on new nuclear than Johnson (who was already promising the impossible) unleash farming by slashing regulations, superboost the economy….
Yes it's not exactly well thought out and there is danger of more inflation but tax cuts (because she won't tax the rich) plus spending would probably grow the economy.
Every political heavy weight of both sides wants growth.
As excited as some are about that redfield poll
One from 6 hrs earlier had them 14pts ahead
Until Truss is PM you won't be able to read much into them
https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1554070388396769280?t=mq8UVyrlutPnYW5oXHJTNQ&s=19
Truss will have a honeymoon period, for how long is anyones guess
Truss will have a honeymoon period, for how long is anyones guess
Until she shuts down at the first difficult question and needs rebooting.
Well she’s very good at rebooting, and coming back online with whatever new message is required of her. What about her “delivery” though…? The trade deals that we have “gained” under her are looking pretty beneficial to those based in the partner countries, with little gain for those based here.
A little check of my understanding of Liz's policies from the last couple of days:
- ignore NI, Scotland and Wales.
- save £11bn on civil servant salary costs of £9bn
- save the civil servant budget by reducing salaries in NHS, schools etc outside of central London.
- level up the region's by reducing investment there.
- tax cuts that only favour middle and high earners
- business profit takes priority over environmental protection or climate change reduction.
- allow forrin workers on, but only for the crappy jobs and temporarily.
- any student getting A* at A-level to be encouraged to Oxbridge.
And they are all policies I hold the polar opposite view on.
There’s an actual cost of living crisis out there to be dealt with.
But as long as it doesn't really impact the folk who'll vote Tory, they'll ignore it, or at least only respond with words.
I'd love to see a Labour, Lib Dem, Green Coalition - proportional representation here we come.
I’d love to see a Labour, Lib Dem, Green Coalition
Never going to happen. Labour think they can 'win' alone and keep all the pennies for themselves, just like the Tories. Shameful really, but that's what we've got.
Well, its up to voters to return the right make up of MPs to force cooperation onto Labour. The current voting system is ripe for this… use it to return more LibDem and Green MPs in the regions where support for them is strong, we need fewer Tory MPs first and foremost. With the success of the SNP in Scotland, another large Labour majority is just a pipe dream. If you want LibDem and Green influence in parliament help get them more MPs. If there are more of them in there pushing for PR, there’s more chance of getting it… many Labour members will be pushing their MPs as well.
And they are all policies I hold the polar opposite view on.
Tbf her plans to save £11bn from civil service cuts by slashing pay and reducing holiday allowance are about as likely to happen as me having a threesome with Katy Perry & Beyonce
This kind of cakeism had a short lifespan for Johnson
It will be genuinely interesting to see how Truss deals with the complete failure to deliver a single of her pledges once PM- it's not actually a GE, so technically she's only lying to the Tory membership
And they are all policies I hold the polar opposite view on.
Both candidates are saying things to a very small and particular set of constituents. I think you'd get evens at a bookies about either 1. how much they personally even believe what they're saying, or 2 whether any of it survives a couple of days in office.
making these "policies/offers/claims/brainfarts" as the favourite to win is insane, hang onto to your hats for the next 2 years. You can understand it from Sunak.
I’m not so sure… this “small state” stuff, especially the “why should public sector workers get paid a reasonable income, and get reasonably conditions, when my job/pension doesn’t get me either” side of things does play well with a certain kind of voter. Yes, many voters will cringe at it… but do they vote Tory anyway?
Politicians in the North will use it to try and win some people over though (and rightly so, the Tory policy of “levelling up” was always just smoke and mirrors)…
https://twitter.com/andyburnhamgm/status/1554236495275462657?s=21
As excited as some are about that redfield poll
One from 6 hrs earlier had them 14pts ahead
Did you read what you posted? It very clearly said "but there's a catch". The catch is that a large proportion of Tory voters are currently undecided, which isn't entirely surprising given that the Tories don't have a permanent leader at the moment.
It doesn't mean that if there was a general election tomorrow they won't be voting Tory. Other pollsters make an allowance for that fact, Opinium certainly do as they have publicly stated that they do.
