I can't believe he still thinks an admission isn't necessary at some point. The only question is when re law suits etc. Trying to gain something in exchange for admission is to be expected from LA and tbf I can't blame him for that. Have a bet with a mate on him confessing in next 6 months so come on Lance!
bensales - Member
So, with respect to him wanting to come back and race...What's the difference between him admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race, and David Millar admitting doping, serving a ban, and coming back to race?
I'm no fan of the man, but do the crime, do the time, clean slate should apply to all.
Circumstances;Millar admitted what he had done, Armstrong sent attack dog lawyers onto anybody who took his name in vain and perjured himself.He also threatened the career of anybody who messed with him. I hope his bum heals over.
Lance will confess if and when he thinks there's something in it for him. Those lawsuits mentioned by the OP he'll lose whether or not he confesses - the only question is whether he's realised that yet.
as Aracer said! this is an intelligent thug of a man who will only do it if he get something out of it. Disappointing but very true.
Ermm.. Isn't Juan pelota Lance's twitter name?
Lance has an STW login?
Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.
Leaving aside your dreadful spelling and punctuation, I'd love to be there and hear you say that to his face. Of course you'd never dare, but it would be funny.
Beaten to it...juan pelota is Lance's alias and nickname for himself.
People need to consider that Sir Wiggo dominated what is still a drug riddled peleton. Don't take my word for it ask Judge Perdua.
Totally agree with crazy-legs about David Millar.
Juanpelota- my comment was that everyone doing performance- enhancing drugs does not make a level playing field. Of course individuals respond different to training; there's a lot of evidence for that. But taking drugs that can seriously damage your health (and potentially encouraging orhers to do so) whilst at the same time heading up a charity that is meant to promote health is totally hypocritical.
There are reasons I believe Wiggins is clean
First the back ground in British Cycling. its really clear from the Millar book that British Cycling just did things much better than the pro teams. In terms of training and nutrition.
Dave Brailsford is envolved in Sky and British Cycling
The real clincher is that Wiggins performances in this year Tour simply wouldn't have been good enough to podium in the bad years
Don't Sky run blood passports as well?
You can train better, harder, be more committed in order to ride faster. None of these would kill you in your sleep.
With drugs you can take more drugs and cycle faster but they may kill you in your sleep. It is no longer about who is fittest or even who responds best to the drugs, it's just about who is most willing to nearly kill themselves. So to say that Lance was the best in the even playing field of the drugs era is wrong. He is just the guy who took the most drugs.
Lance will confess if and when he thinks there's something in it for him.
This.
The bloke is a sociopath; I could use so many gutter words to describe him but just wish he'd **** off and suffer all he's brought on himself.
Lance desperately wants to compete.
That punishment is the one that really punishes him. Money he has plenty of. Shame, he won't be bothered by - he'll just say he did what they all did.
He doesn't want to go to jail for perjury though. That's what's preventing a confession at the moment.
Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.
It's been stripped earlier.
Clubber has a point.
Completing and winning is probably the only thing that stops him from seeing he's the mirror image of the the father he hates.
Which brings us back to the sociopath thing, the dude needs counseling.
In fact he should do a book called ' It's all about my father'.
of the letter K.
I thought i had reconciled myself to the fact that all my cycling hero's were dopers, but much as everyone has been applauding millar and a load of riders at the end of their careers for being so brave, it's been the words of riders like roche and vanendert that really highlighted how many shadows remain in the sport.
Much as I want to have faith in the new heroes, there are still [url= http://www.fillarifoorumi.fi/forum/showthread.php?38129-Ammattilaispy%F6r%E4ilij%F6iden-nousutietoja-%28aika-km-h-VAM-W-W-kg-etc-%29&p=1906952#post1906952 ]questions [/url] to ask. I think people like kimmage and whittle need to keep asking questions, as the problems are so ingrained in the sport, it may annoy some people, but no one in pro cycling should be allowed to sit easy.
A bloke I used to work with is utterly convinced Wiggins is doping. It's the only thing he comes on Facebook to post about.
As for Wiggo I believe he's clean the ascent times of the mountains they climbed this years TdF versus 90's and 00's have increased by 20 minutes!!
Could you provide a link please. The Peyresourde was climbed in about 26 minutes which equates to about 6W/kg for Wiggins if you do a bit of Googling. Kimmage is absolutely right to find the same riders on the front hammering out the rythme day after day suspicious. Voekler has been given a hard time by the French press for his improbable climb rates/ doping suspicions and he lost!
A Sky rider lapped everyone TWICE last night at the Revolution.
What has Kimmage done wrong, exactly? Is sky untouchable? They can just employ whatever dodgy doctor they feel like without being questioned? Or close up on promised transparency? Then ride up mountains at 25mph led by domestiques who then leave the team promptly when a new declaration become a condition of staying?
The burden of proof is on cycling.
The burden of proof is on cycling.
This
You cant have Cyclings track record and expect to be beyond suspicion, Tour Winners more than any other. Possibly not fair but tough.
Hora,
Peter kennaugh was part of the Olympic team pursuit team, it's not just any old sky rider. Plus like all cycling the race he was in is a race of wits and bluff not just speed..
Whether or not some of the team have / are doping I do not know, but that is not even worth raising an eyebrow over.
Also 6 w/kg has always been perceived by such outspoken anti dopers like Lemond to be the top limit of what is possible naturally. Armstrong and pantani were producing 6.7- 6.8 w/kg in their heyday.
Lets be honest its going to be quite funny when Sir Wiggo gets stripped of the nighthood.
Leaving aside your dreadful spelling and punctuation, I'd love to be there and hear you say that to his face. Of course you'd never dare, but it would be funny.
And who ever said it to Lance's face during his glory years?
I believe Wiggins has doped and it would be no great surprise to learn that he was doping through the tour. Is he still? I wouldn't bet against it, but the heat has perhaps been turned up enough to make riders reconsider.
I don't understand the belief that cycling has somehow now turned a corner...
I'd say a key difference is that new people coming through won't face the kind of pressures to dope that they used to - and some teams are have been doing their best to be clean for years for sure. Garmin and yes Sky.
Some of the abuse of Kimmage, including here, certainly shows that mud sticks, even after the chief mud thrower is busted. He's been right all along, and he's been the target of horrendous abuse from those whose cheating he fought.
Can't but help thinking that if LA is going to confess then he would try and gain something from it, Johan Bruyneel will be having his hearing with USADA at some point this year and if Lance gets called to give evidence under oath then he will have no choice but to confess, that or perjure himself and face jail time.
It makes sense that if that's going to happen then he'll try and pre-empt it and get a reduced ban into the bargain.
some teams are have been doing their best to be clean for years for sure. Garmin and yes Sky
Hiring one of the dodgiest doctors of the recent doping era doesn't really help me to trust Sky's words. Garmin are a different kettle of fish I think: Vaughters is very open on twitter and even the Clinic forum on CN
I believe Wiggins has doped and it would be no great surprise to learn that he was doping through the tour. Is he still? I wouldn't bet against it, but the heat has perhaps been turned up enough to make riders reconsider.
you just made an unsubstantiated claim anything apart from your gut here?
I don't understand the belief that cycling has somehow now turned a corner..Could you make your mind up they either reconsider or they still cheat which is it?Main problem i think we have is that some folk will think whoever wins is a cheat no matter who it is due to the murky history.
I see no reason to suggest Wiggo has cheated and i am sure Cadel is clean as well
What about cav do you think he cheats as well then as he is shattering sprint records
I do agree they have had some questionable appointments but they seem to have go tthe house in order again.
Do yu think Sir dave and Sir Brad would be cheating - with all the Olympic heritage and racing pedigree and what they have said?
We rule the cycling world at the minute lets enjoy it eh.
Apologies if this has been said already...
Even if Lance confesses then surely he will have to serve a 2 year ban? Or will it be back dated in some way?
Will he have to be treated like every other doper? Do his time then get to come back? Personally I find this distasteful given that he is not like every other doper but perhaps that's how it will have to be handled for fear of legal action.
You'd like to think that race organisers (triathlon and running I believe) would tell him to F off but doubtless some will want him there for publicity.
And what about USADA?
Does anyone believe cycling is clean at the top now???
so you have gone from he was clean to they are all cheats now , quite a swing 😕
He/they avoided it. I don't believe its prize/crave attention/results = purity now.
It was interesting that Dave B wouldn't have David Millar at Sky - despite being fond of him - but did employ others who've been associated with drugs. Anyway, seems they've regretted some choices hence the purge.
ormondroyd
Some of the abuse of Kimmage, including here, certainly shows that mud sticks, even after the chief mud thrower is busted. He's been right all along, and he's been the target of horrendous abuse from those whose cheating he fought
This.
Im not buying into the school of thought that says Kimmage is an attention whore. Granted its in his interest to remain in the public eye but he makes himself very unwelcome within the cycling world because he chooses to voice his beliefs that doping is still rife at the top.
There was no test to detect the usage of EPO for years......
I think Kimmage and Walsh have their place, they've pushed a message that no one wanted to hear, and been proven right.
I think it's a shame that Kimmage has fallen out of love with the sport, it's riders and us fools who still participate, and dream in it. But maybe that's the price he's paid to make it better, but it's because of that he and Walsh can dig, I won't say be Objective.....as I don't know if either will ever watch and enjoy with out questioning?
I hope so much, and think that wiggins is clean, it looked belivable, it was a flat tour (as in no dramatic sections, it was a cagey affair no one took any risks) and that was good. Maybe the era of dramatic attacks by GC riders are over for cycling?
Are there as many questions about Boonen's 50km break or that or Cancilara (sp?)
Are there as many questions about Boonen's 50km break or that or Cancilara (sp?)
In certain places, certainly.
For a while some thought Cancellara had a little electric motor 😆
Re; Armstrong
It appears he's beginning to appear contrite about his past only because USADA have taken the only thing he really wants; the ability to compete.
He's banned for everything, forever. That is justice, although he enjoys it I bet he doesn't give a monkeys about the money. It was all about control for him. He was able to dictate everything to ensure he had the best chance of winning.
Now he's been severed from all sport which is why he's making noises about setting things straight.
I happened to read a tweet of his the other day, not something I do btw. I seldom look at ****ter but having been directed there to that infamous lounging under the jerseys post I thought Id check it out.
He says;
'It took a "photographer" to "write" the most balanced piece we've seen yet.'
There a link to Graham Watsons blog, in which he describes his thoughts on what 2012 meant to him.
Have a read, its too much to quote here.
All the signs are there.
I read that blog too. It's certainly not a damning criticism of LA and seems to point to some of the same old arguments e.g. "still the best, level playing field" [b]but[/b] it read to me (at least) that it was written from a standpoint that LA [i]had[/i] doped. What was interesting about that was that it was posted by LA (or LA's people) on LA's Facebook page.
Things have obviously changed - when once he would have been throwing lawyers at people who say he doped he's now promoting a piece that seems to be saying 'yeah, he doped, but he wasn't all bad, can't we all just move on?'
I just read it and thought this is a step in paving the way for a [u]managed[/u] confession. He will say "yeah, I did it but I didn't do everything they say I did and everyone was doing it and I was still the best" which is side-stepping the USADA view of him as a ringleader.
Vaughters is very open on twitter
...but not open enough to admit that he doped, until last year, when I guess his hand was forced by the LA case and everyone else fessing up?
Watson comes across as Armstrong's best buddy (despite all the flip flopping in his blog, he does clearly state that he has made good money from LA and is not going to criticise him) so I suppose he could be helping to prepare the ground for some dodgy confession deal.
Interesting use of the collective 'we' Armstrong uses. I can imagine a myriad of PR people and lawyers carefully planning every step since USADA announced their findings.
Defiance has been replaced by something altogether different.
I hope Simeoni, Hamilton et al are enjoying every minute of his squirming.
Some of the abuse of Kimmage, including here, certainly shows that mud sticks, even after the chief mud thrower is busted. He's been right all along, and he's been the target of horrendous abuse from those whose cheating he fought.
Also this. I think Kimmage knows more than he's letting on regarding Sky.
Also this. I think Kimmage knows more than he's letting on regarding Sky.
What gives you that idea? He wasn't shy in coming forward when it came to Armstrong. What makes you think he'd sit on something about Sky? If he's got info he would be a made man, it's a £million story.
As far as I can see he has suspicions because of the nature of Wiggins' performance, nothing else. But people are asking questions about Wiggins that were never asked of Armstrong which is good but so far nothing has come out. Sure there is the Sky train in the tour but that where the comparisons end.
Armstrong did nothing outside the tour - Wiggins has been winning consistently for 2 years
Armstrong hid all year - Wiggins is very open about training harder than he can race
Blah blah blah
It's right to be sceptical about cycling but you also have to be rational.
Why would someone like Michael Barry confess to doping and give evidence against LA, but if Sky were doping, keep quiet?
ormondroyd - Member
Kimmage is more interested in keeping himself in the public eye than cycling. He doesn't write anything now that suggests he likes cycling from anything other than an investigative journalists point of view. Why doesn't he come out and cite EXACTLY what evidence he has on Sky doping? As stated above, if he had any evidence he would be cashing in on it.