[Closed] So is this racist?

'airbrushing of history' is disengenuous & dangerous.

its not airbrushing the past its is doing something in the present.

"airbrushing" history would require painting it all white and pretending it was never there and we never had golliwogs. As others note keeping it in a gallery [ if possible] is a good compromise.

i agree we cannot pretend things did not happen in the past or air brush it but we dont need to keep it

In the 60's they thought homosexuality was a disease that could be cured- I suspect some still do think like that still. Should I give my kids books on this or just explain that folk did this and it was wrong?

Well, you didn't say that, did you? 😀

You said, '... all my kids need to know is the past was a bit more racist than now and we are trying to be less racist..'.

No mention of museums, etc.

In the 60's they thought homosexuality was a disease that could be cured- I suspect some still do think like that still. Should I give my kids books on this or just explain that folk did this and it was wrong?

I dunno - how strongly do you feel about it?
If you're not that fussed, then fine, you could just 'explain that folk did this and it was wrong'.

Homophobia is sill endemic - we are one of the the most liberal countries in the worls in this respect.

You could fob them off with a book or a museum, or show them & talk through examples of how it affects millions of people thoughout the world today - how people are still routinely killed because of their sexuality.

Sticking older examples of prejudice in a museum is a denial of our humanity - it says 'that happened in the past, but we're better now'.
Well, we're not.
Prejudice grows wherever ignorance thrives and if we're not careful, it returns faster than you think.

In the 60's they thought homosexuality was a disease that could be cured- I suspect some still do think like that still. Should I give my kids books on this or just explain that folk did this and it was wrong?

Junkyard -

Would you stop your children from reading Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer?

Do you think that these novels have no value as art and should be removed from schools?

IMO they were of their time and they should be used to demonstrate how things have progressed. The same for the mural. They are also great stories and I loved them as a child.

Besides, it is a mural that shows talking animals that wear clothes and drink tea FFS. It isn't historically accurate.

The headmaster must be a shrewd cookie. Not only does he/she display art that is apparently of "historic and artistic importance" but he also creates the perfect tool for weeding out trouble-maker parents before they arrive. A double master stroke.

DD, worth opening this thread again for you post alone. Another masterstroke.

I bet you folks are proud they brought you up to act like this

They're incredibly proud of me, for the record.

But, what way am I acting - I'm still mystified as to why I was accused of being a racist for [b]not[/b] seeing a golli.

If you read the thread back it was you that came in with the guns blazing, as usual (your condescending edit, for example. Who the hell edits to add condescension). And what was all that shit about high ground and inner light...

I think you need to get a grip of yourself with regard to this place. I continually read posts of yours questioning the validity of other members contributions if you dislike what they write, as if what you contribute is of any worth. For the most part, you come across as an over-bearing, self-righteous fool that doesn't appear to have the time or inclination to take others opinions on-board.

I'm always somewhat wary of the over-confident...

winston it all depends really and in general no i would not stop them but I would explain.

We have read Alice in wonderland and there is no golliwog that I recall so yes its fair to say its not accurate about anything FWIW they did not enjoy it very much.

Tom sawyer - interesting point but I dont know it well enough to comment tbh but I suspect i would be fine with it. Some racism iirc??

I am coming over more puritanical and hand wringing, wont someone think of the children than I intended. i dont want to re write the past or sterilise it all but some aspects are best to just be said rather than read - they are still young though so as they age this will change.

It's called education

I have never read Alice In Wonderland even as I child I didn't get it. The mural strikes me as being quite beautiful and should be kept.

I thought Golly was an Enid Blyton character?

Mark Twain had characters called "Injun Joe" and "Jim" who is called a "****". Injun Jope is also a nasty piece of work.

I get the point but they dont need to see examples of homophobia they just need to know it happened.

Woody I agree it depends on what it is but my kids are young so i shall not be showing them images for a number of years.

Cheers for Tom sawyer info

I'm still mystified as to why I was accused of being a racist for not seeing a golli.

The AiW stuff is a tangent. It only comes up because various people describe the girl in the mural as an AiW like character.

Still I am sure there are plenty of equally offended heads who will be lining up to welcome Ms Neizer Rocha and her offspring to their schools. In the end, they will all be happy and in the appropriate environment.

I am mystified as to why you think I have done this - could you highlight the post ? Please quote me accusing you of racism- you cannot

Now you're getting paranoid. There's nothing in that statement to suggest I was referring to you. I was referring to Deadly Darcy's input.

See, that's what I'm talking about - you have a brainfart and can't help yourself hitting the keyboard before engaging your rational side.

You do have one, right...

Teasel, were you on here before under a different log in?

You seem to have personal issues with Junky.
Any chance of you putting that to one side and behaving like a big boy now so we can continue with an interesting discussion?

No previous, your honour.

Nothing personal, either. Just retaliating - can't resist sometimes.

I'll behave like a [i]big boy[/i] now...

*scrambles around for rolling eye emoticon*

I'll behave like a big boy now...

Good lad.

If you behave yourself this afternoon you can have a little rant at teatime.

But, what way am I acting - I'm still mystified as to why I was accused of being a racist for not seeing a golli.

Who accused you of being a racist? That's pretty serious stuff.

deadlydarcy - I love these threads. Brings 'em all out.

Followed by the piccie of the golli "for [my] benefit".

Ambiguity is a wonderful thing, though, isn't it - affords a lack of commitment...

oops...I'll stop now...

Sorry, Rusty etc.

I hear this description of rap music quite often and it just makes the person saying it look incredibly ignorant.

Sweeping statement I guess but there are plenty of examples of misogyny and forms of racism in the work of some artists - not all.

Check out Ice Cube's back catalogue before he sold out. Black Korea anyone? Can you say anything under the guise of irony?

What about art that depicts black people as slaves or servants? Could that be seen as offensive or an accurate depiction of how life was at that time?

Just asking - I don't really know if the toy in the background of the picture is more symbolic? (It is a toy, right?)

[img] [/img]

@ teasel
Why would you have thought I was talking about you?

To be fair, I can't believe your "not seeing a golliwog" was anything other than disingenuous attempt to wind JY up by implying he was being a handwringing professionally offended type because he saw a golliwog and you "didn't". So in case there was any ambiguity, because we can't have that in your world (apparently), I showed you the [i]very first[/i] picture that google images threw up for the search term "golliwog", just so you couldn't be in any doubt as to why people might see a golliwog where you just saw a black kid. So, no, I didn't call you a racist, but I should have called you a bullshitter. The discussion got reasonably interesting once you left, but here you are again today continuing to insult him.

Now, if you could point out where I called you a racist...?

I already did - in the quote.

But..you're wrong about my motivations. I genuinely did not see a golly/golli in the picture. When I first looked at it in the way the OP requested we do i.e. is this racist - it took me a while to see anything remotely racist and it wasn't until I spotted what I stated was a black kid with an afro that I saw a possible cause. Maybe I'm thick or slow or whatever but I certainly didn't see a golli even though I grew-up in the seventies and lived through the changes associated with this subject.

As far as JY is concerned, I have no idea what a hangwringer is so no, not attempting to prove anything, just interested as to why he saw a golli as an instant image as opposed to a black kid. I get it now - most of you see a golly; I didn't and JY jumped on me for that, thinking I was up to something. I wasn't - I was expressing myself, probably badly.

Anyway, if you weren't implying I was a racist in your "brings em all out" line and it was merely something I inferred through being paranoid, please accept my apologies.

I hope that's clear enough...

I'm happy to leave it at that. And I'm sure you need to keep your post count down. 😉

🙂

Indeed, I do. I have a few days of online ordering to do and knew it was a mistake to frequent this place of a morning/afternoon/evening.

JY jumped on me for that,

What's actually going on, though ? The chap in question just seems to be having a good time sitting up on that ledge.

I'm obviously missing something...

POSTED 15 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST
Junkyard - lazarus
Have you considered researching the topic first?

Is this really Jumping on you or worth all this that you have done?

Trail-Blazer - Member
Sweeping statement I guess but there are plenty of examples of misogyny and forms of racism in the work of some artists - not all.

Check out Ice Cube's back catalogue before he sold out. Black Korea anyone? Can you say anything under the guise of irony?

So we can condemn all of punk because of Skrewdriver then?

all this that you have done

Nothing like a nice bit of hyperbole, eh.

In my mind it was an unnecessary addition, Junkyard. Also followed by the other stuff I quoted but you brush that aside in your bid to appear righteous. For the record, I don't have any issues with you - it's purely local to this discussion. If it appears across the forum, again; it's the topic being discussed.

I have lost the plot with this!

I thought it was a discussion about some artwork in a school that was considered by some to be racist?

In response to the OP, no I do not think it is racist. It is a series of images that feature a mixture of fictional, fantasy characters.

IMO it is a complete waste of police time, detracts from the real problems in our society, feeds the Daily Wail "PC gone mad" Brigade when people highlight things like this.

Why anyone would go to the police rather than discuss with the Head or the Governors is beyond me!

So we can condemn all of punk because of Skrewdriver then?

Of course not. 😉

There are countless things in everyday life that [i]might offend someone[/i] and it would be impossible to remove every single one of them. Hence my initial post saying that, if rap is offensive to some people, should it be banned as well?

Was the person who complained personally offended or were they doing it on behalf of others as is sometimes the way with these PC cases?

Trail-Blazer - Member

Hence my initial post saying that, if rap is offensive to some people, should it be banned as well?

Oh, okay, that's what you were saying...

Interesting - will be curious to see where this story goes.

If you edited out the aspects of the past that don't sit well with modern sensibilities then you will be burning down whole museums and libraries.

There is an ongoing debate in the Museum world about what to do with such offensive artefacts e.g. the whole warehouse of human hair from the nazi concentration camps. And the related argument about restoring these kind of sites.

Do you return the tattoed preserved Maori heads taken as souvenirs by Victorian travellers to the tribes ?

My solution would be to place a notice, explaining what the figure is and the background, and asking the kids to conclude for themselves why it wouldn't go in a school mural any more.

[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/18/somalian-pirates-edinburgh-students-black-up_n_4294952.html ]Students "dress up" as Somali pirates[/url]

Is this racist?

Maybe i'm a bit thick, i just dont understand how and why a black doll is perceived as racist where as a white doll is acceptable?

I just don't understand all this PC nonsense....maybe i need to start being 'offended' a bit more??

Maybe i'm a bit thick, i just dont understand how and why a black doll is perceived as racist where as a white doll is acceptable?
I just don't understand all this PC nonsense....maybe i need to start being 'offended' a bit more??

It's 2013.

*sheds a tear*

To put a bit of perspective on this.........

[url= http://www.viralnova.com/8-year-old-child-bride-dies/ ]There are many more things going on which are far more offensive![/url]