[Closed] So can we call Edwarden Snowden a hero yet ?

what about our PM ?

The difference is that we didn't start two world wars.

It's sensible to keep an eye on what the Germans are up to imo.

what about our PM ?

One former insider says that, in the course of targeting other individuals, the NSA may well have eavesdropped on David Cameron's phone calls. The UK-US special relationship, he said, is not enshrined in law.

Of course call me Dave will suck up to the merkins, just like a playground bullies sidekick who has taken a thump from the bully will ignore the indiscretion to stay part of the bullies gang. As would any UK PM I can remember.

It is about time Snowdon was offered asylum by a European country, but it won't happen.

The difference is that we didn't start two world wars.

It's sensible to keep an eye on what the Germans are up to imo.

..and with that, time to switch off the laptop!

The difference is that we didn't start two world wars.

It's sensible to keep an eye on what the Germans are up to imo.

To be fair, if the countries Germany had invaded had put up as little resistance as those conquered by the UK in the time of empire, there wouldn't have been two world wars.

So can we call Edwarden Snowden a hero yet ?

Yes (pp/s: not hero but someone who is brave), because NO govt can be trusted as they are all infested by maggots!

🙄

p/s: previously I would say no but for last few weeks my opinion has changed due to so many scumbags showing their true colours ... solicitors, schools ... people.

?
Traitors . Never, what ever their reasons.

I wouldn't call him a hero, but I am impressed by his actions.
Deepens my dislike of the US administration.

I think that Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are heroes.

Both are making sure that we all know what the big-bad USA is up to and what they are capable of.

We should all be glad people like them exist and are prepared to put their lives on hold simply to make sure we're all well informed.

I'd love a European country to offer either of them asylum - teach the Yanks that they need to be nicer to people 😆

Traitors . Never, what ever their reasons.

Not even those who help us when we attack and invade a country ?

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/afghan-interpreters-serving-with-british-troops-sent-to-their-deaths-if-not-offered-asylum-8762327.html ]Afghan interpreters serving with British troops ‘sent to their deaths’ if not offered asylum[/url]

or those exposing the actions of a corrupt governments actions against its own people and "friends".

I find in most cases it is those in authority that should be branded traitors, not the whistleblowers.

Deepens my dislike of the US administration.

It's not as if the UK aren't in this dungheap up to our armpits.

A traitor to their government, or their countrymen?
I think snowden deserves a ****ing knighthood.

If we were able to scratch the surface of our countries secret service and MI6 dealings then i imagine we'd be just as disgusted to what goes on in our name, personally i don't trust the police - they lie, don't trust the government - they lie, don't trust any so called authoritarian rule in general as they also lie but i do have a handful of friends whom i can trust implicitly and that'll do me.

As would any UK PM I can remember.

Lady Thatcher didn't. Kicked Reagen into touch over the Cold War and bought about the fall of the Iron Curtain. Also famously had SAS troops 'whilst on holiday and not on active service' doing some work abroad to prevent US Forces doing something or other (probably bombing the shit out of yet another country). And of course she didn't bow down to the US funded IRA/PIRA terrorists.

Lady Thatcher brought down the iron curtain 😯

Oh I see it was a joke.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The difference is that we didn't start two world wars.
It's sensible to keep an eye on what the Germans are up to imo.

Genius!

We and others have always spied on our allies as well as our foes. Perhaps the only surprising thing in this case, is the fact that it was her personal mobile. And that wasn't secure? What were the German security folk up to?

We stole all the questions relating to UK entry to a certain international organisation not that long ago. I can't imagine we are/were alone.

And of course she didn't bow down to the US funded IRA/PIRA terrorists.

That worked particularly well.

I'm really rather amused that the politicians are getting all upset by the thought of their being hacked/recorded when it is obviously OK for the rest of us 😆

I mean, if they've nothing to hide, what's the problem?

. And of course she didn't bow down to the US funded IRA/PIRA terrorists.

If this was a Hollywood movie, in the vein of something like 'Enemy of the State' for example, then yes Edward Snowden would very much be the hero.

Thatcher refused to yield to terrorists and set the precedent for what happened a few yrs later, take a bow Bliar and Mowlam

I think that Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are heroes.

+1

The difference is that we didn't start two world wars

Anyone who is prepared to confront America over its terrorism of smaller, weaker and usually browner countries deserves our admiration.

thank fk for tony blair and mo molam!

And Germany was not first to declare war in either

That's how sneaky they are.

I rest my case.

MI5 spied on the UK Labour Government ! The fact is everyone is making a fuss but all of these revelations are not particularly surprising. Assange proved the US Government was lying about Iraq, not really news. The US Government spies on everyone including Americans, ditto.

I think that Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are heroes.

Both are making sure that we all know what the big-bad USA is up to and what they are capable of.

We should all be glad people like them exist and are prepared to put their lives on hold simply to make sure we're all well informed.

I'd love a European country to offer either of them asylum - teach the Yanks that they need to be nicer to people

And John major, who did most of the heavy lifting.

Big deal, governments spy on eachother. Hardly the best kept secret. We're all spying on eachother, always have. That's politics. What he has done is compromise the safety of operatives and hampered the effectiveness of ours and the USs spying ability thereby increasing the chances of a terrorist attack.

Who know's, the shopping mall massacre in Nairobi might well have been stopped if Ed had not exposed the methods and extent of the USs spying activities. The yanks certainly knew who to hit shortly after the massacre so they were clearly on their watch list. After Eds help the terrorists might have very well changed their tactics ahead of the attack meaning they slipped the intelligence net and the attack not anticipated. I'm just speculating to illustrate a point, but none of us will ever know. That's the point. Anyone who thinks his revelations have not put peoples lives at risk and handed those who wish to harm us at an advantage is just naive. Loose lips sink ships is just as true today as it was in WW2.

What he has done is compromise the safety of operatives and hampered the effectiveness of ours and the USs spying ability thereby increasing the chances of a terrorist attack.

Its not a great case you have put fwd but he will have undoubtedly compromised some of what they do - probably the dodgy shit they do to us all that is semi legal. IN much the same way the MP;s expenses scandal has compromised MP's

wobbliscott - Member

Anyone who thinks his revelations have not put peoples lives at risk and handed those who wish to harm us at an advantage is just naive. Loose lips sink ships is just as true today as it was in WW2.

I suggest someone start fueling both sides to start the nuke war to reduce the entire human population by 60% ... biological, chemical, genetic whatever ... just reduce the population! Maggots infestation must be eradicated.

wobbliscott - Member

Anyone who thinks his revelations have not put peoples lives at risk and handed those who wish to harm us at an advantage is just naive.

OTOH, if the US was more ethical in their espionage, he wouldn't have felt compelled to leak, so it's easy to reverse that and point the finger at those who've allowed it to get out of hand, therefore endangering operations.

I'm not offering up any evidence, just speculating to illustrate a possible scenario - and the attack may have taken place on foreign soil, but so what - all these things are interconnected, terrorism is international and is an attack on our way of life and other countries way of life, so again, just because terrible things happen on faraway shores doesn't mean its not linked to anything that might affect us in the future. We can't just bury our heads in the sand and ignore what's going on in the wider world.

Part of spying is gathering intel from many different sources (sometimes in partnership with other countries, sometimes not) and cross referencing that with other snippets of information and building up a bigger picture. Spying doesn't work unless you're spying on everyone as its a global problem involving many countries.

I'm glad our government is spying and I hope they continue to do so. Its their duty and obligation to do so in order to deliver their first and foremost obligation to us - to provide security. Without security our whole way of life and fabric of our society will unravel.

I'm not sure where ethics comes into espionage. By its very nature its unethical.

Its their duty and obligation to do so in order to deliver their first and foremost obligation to us - to provide security.

terrorism is international and is an attack on our way of life and other countries way of life,

Indeed if they did not spy on us our very way of life would quite literally collapse before our eyes

^ 🙄
Someone's in love with Big Brother.

As for Snowden, brave yes, hero not so sure. He could be a stooge. He didn't reveal anything truly earth-shattering. He's no David Icke for instance

you mean he is sane?

I think he meant he hasn't revealed anything truly earth shattering like David Icke.

You've got to admit revealing that the Royal Family are lizards was pretty earth shattering.

6079smithw: Someone's in love with Big Brother.

Snowden: brave yes, intelligent yes, cute, err. yes. 😀

Looks at snowdon in a different light accepts AdamW has a point, the tart 😉

Needs better glasses. And a gym membership. Think a proper beard would suit him Adam?

Anyone who steals hundreds of thousands of classified documents and then passes 58,000 of them on to journalists who subsequently try to move them out of the country on a laptop which has the encryption password in the bag it is being carried in deserves no praise.

Snowden is a prize fool and has put the lives of some security personnel at risk and also compromised their ability to discretely monitor favoured channels of communication that dodgy types currently use - the disclosure in the Guardian of the means used to evesdrop Tor are a perfect example of this.

Ultimately to many Snowden people will be a hero right up to the point someone they know gets blown to bits in an attack that wasn't picked up in time. It's worth remembering that nearly all of the 300+ britons convicted of terrorism related offences over the last 9 years have been detected through a combination of surveillance and intelligence.

Telling their peers how we will try and find /stop them won't help the security of our country and given that MI5 are currently actively monitoring nearly 3,000 jihadists in Britain we've just made their task a lot harder and increased the chances of a successful attack.

loving wobbliscots fatuous implications that snowden leaks are responsible for the nairobi attack

surely it just emphasises how useless spies are- see also boston bombings

heres a great blog posted up last time the snowden leaks were discussed here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER