Theres potentially going to be some serious horse-trading going on
He looks a bit like a horse doesn't he?
Going by the polls for the next Holyrood elections, that won't be a problem.
It'll be a Tory majority regardless so Labour wont win/get in. I'd also like to see UKIP shut the **** up. They have two pissing seats. Big deal. 750 total and they have two. Wish they'd shut up. Idiots.
Did those Tory Bar stewards increase the number of MP's by a hundred and not give any to Scotland? Typical!
Interesting that historically there has been a major change in Scottish politics every two decades. I think you can take that as the cycle that as much as some of you wish would end;it won't.Unless we get a Tory/UKIP love in. If that was to happen,then shall we cut the period of time to a decade?
One final point, the Smith report isn't law,not until the next Government passes it,so I am afraid that trying to hold Westminster to the offer isn't sour grapes,your lot offered it...And not in a spirit of reconciliation either. I wonder why we didn't hear about it until days before the ref.
Politician of the Year??
Ian Duncan Smith?
If scotland returns 4 pro independent parliaments(majority in westminster of SNP, and a large majority holyrood(65%+))before then, personally I think it's unlikely the British government will be able to refuse one.jambalaya - Member
Current wishfull/dellusional thinking is another referendum before 2020.
Lets see what happens to them when they try and pass them through westminster.teamhurtmore - Member
Now let's see if there are politicians capable of exercising this new responsibility well.
How about an Tory / SNP coalition 😆
TBH I see a Tory majority at the next election.
So Westminster attempting to rewrite the Scottish Parliament's rules in order to prevent it acting unilaterally? I can imagine how that would go down north of the border!
I forsee another referrundum before 2020. The Indy issue is far from over and next time I believe - hope - the Nats will win.
it would appear that 19% of the country are presently stupid enough to consider voting for them
There is a worrying undercurrent of racism/ xenophobia/ bigotry that I'm seeing more and more. While UKIP are often considered to be an "English" problem (a lot of pro-Yes stuff used the fear of UKIP as a campaign tool) my attention was drawn to a Facebook page that was setup this week protesting against plans to convert a disused waterboard building into temporary accomodation for asylum seekers. Some of the comments from local residents were eye watering. Here's a few unedited examples
That's what all the yes voters voted for this is the SNP s doing we should be looking after our own people FIRST
Am fkn right pissed of with this shit get them to **** out our country there's a nuff people that don't belong here n this country aww ready that are rapping our woman trying to kip nap our weans
Stick it up yer arse ****in more ae these ****s in this country than us scots send thum ****in back !! Sick ae this god dam country wee get treated like shit and they get the good stuff rats man
**** offf !!! Refugees ?? Seriously ? Theyll get chased out what about us ?? HAVE WE NO GOT A SAY NAW ? THE PEOPLE THAT STAY IN POSSO NO GOT A SAY ? **** THAT THEY DONT NEED IT THEYR GETTING ENOUGH AFF THE SOCIAL SEND THEM HAME NO WONDER THERS POVERTY HERE AND PEOPLE HOMELESS AND STARVING HAVING TO USE FOOD BANKS .. SET UP A HOMELESS UNIT INSTEAD OR SOMETHING FOR THE WAYNES DONT GIVE IT TO ****S HERE TO SPONGE AFF THE BREW AND CLAIM FOR THEYR FAMILYS BACK IN WER EVER THEYR FROMTHATS A JOKE ITS REALLY IS !!!!
WEEV GPT ENOUGH TP DEAL WOTH WITH THE AMOUNT A JUNKIES WE DONT NEED RANDOM REFUGEE WAYN SNACHERS TO WORRY ABOUT ASWELL
😳
Like you I have no idea why they would have to respect the wishes of the people
Because they aren't prepared to engage in another debate around it so soon, which is an entirely legitamate viewpoint given the massive division and cost it incurred last time round. And if only one side is prepared to take part its hardly a fair fight is it?
Hypothetically - whats to stop the Scottish Government running a referendum every 2 years until they finally get a small majority, then walking away from the UK forever? As someone has already pointed out, the UK wouldn't subsequently be able to run referendum every 2 years after independence to opt back in, waiting until the population again changed their minds.
And perhaps I should remind you that the 'wishes of the people' was that Scotland shouldn't be independent. Sounds to me that the wishes of the people currently come a distant second to the ambitions of the SNP party.
my attention was drawn to a Facebook page that was setup this week protesting against plans to convert a disused waterboard building into temporary accomodation for asylum seekers
Yeah, but that's Possil*. The pub next to the Water Board site has finally been demolished but there were several murders there.
*And it's Facebook.
[quote=tpbiker ]Sounds to me that the wishes of the people currently come a distant second to the ambitions of the SNP party.
You do realise that the SNP only get into power if [i]the people [/i]vote for them? [i]If[/i] it was a manifesto commitment to have another referendum on independence, then it would be [i]the people[/i] that wanted it.
You do realise that the SNP only get into power if "the people" vote for them? If it was a manifesto commitment to have another referendum on independence, then it would be the people that wanted it.
Indeed. I don't think even the SNP will push for another referendum unless something has changed and they have some kind of mandate for it (it'd be pointless anyway as they'd just lose again). At the moment they definitely don't, but there will be a lot of political changes coming over the next few years and that could well deliver them a mandate for another referendum.
Hypothetically - whats to stop the Scottish Government running a referendum every 2 years until they finally get a small majority, then walking away from the UK forever?
Nothing but the point was raised in relation to them having a vote if the UK decided to leave the EU. The SNP are not proposing to do this anyway.
As someone has already pointed out, the UK wouldn't subsequently be able to run referendum every 2 years after independence to opt back in,
You can tell your ex wife as often as you like after the divorce that you still love her but the decision is not yours to make so you can dp what you like re this it wont be your call. Shall we at least debate plausible hypothetical scenarios?
Sounds to me that the wishes of the people currently come a distant second to the ambitions of the SNP party.
Political parties dont stop campaigning for what they believe in when they lose an election.
For clarity I should add that I do not think they can have a referendum in the next 10 years[ and quite possibly 20 years] unless their is a substantial change in the Union such as leaving the EU. The people have spoken.
Yeah, but that's Possil
They still vote
Like you I have no idea why they would have to respect the wishes of the people
But JY there are 60m people in the UK, you have to respect everyone's wishes. 5 blokes down the pub might want to declare Independence for their favourite boozer.
70-80% of tax take still goes to Westminster. Seriously, these are pretty minor tweaks to the existing arrangements.
Well Scotland get's a lot of that money back to pay for NHS, welfare, pensions etc
Too many pigeons, here's a few cats to throw in...
The SNP is only part of the independence movement in Scotland, and while the SNP may be regarded as being in the forefront, they do not control the independence movement.
There is a separate legal system in Scotland. The Treaty of Union didn't absorb Scotland's parliament into England's but created a new body and the respective legal rights were retained. In Scotland sovereignty resides in the people, not the parliament. Hence the attitude amongst many here that it is not whether we are "allowed" to have a referendum, but whether we should exercise our sovereignty and simply declare independence. A suitable trigger being maybe when there is a majority of MPs from Scotland supporting independence, or a large majority in the Scottish parliament. That could be next May.
And as for "get over it", when Labour or Conservative lose an election, do you expect the voters for the losing party to convert to the other political opinion? Similarly independence isn't going away.
This is why it is important why if Westminster wants to put the independence issue to bed they should honour "The Vow". Devolution is what a substantial part of the Scottish people would prefer/accept, but if it is denied, they will see the only option is independence.
[quote=jambalaya ]
Well Scotland get's a lot of that money back to pay for NHS, welfare, pensions etcOh aye - but this isn't some grand federal solution that's being proposed as some on this thread seem to believe. My point is that most of Holyroods budget will still come in the form of a "grant" from Westminster.70-80% of tax take still goes to Westminster. Seriously, these are pretty minor tweaks to the existing arrangements.
But JY there are 60m people in the UK, you have to respect everyone's wishes. 5 blokes down the pub might want to declare Independence for their favourite boozer
We did all these arguments on the previous thread. The arguments and points raised [ including weak ones that compare a nation, its elected representatives and a democratic vote of the people of said nation to 5 blokes [ womans place is in the home i presume?] in the pub] are unchanged.
It would be very difficult for rUK to ignore the wishes of Scotland and force them to stay against their wishes. If your wife wants to leave then she leaves what you want or millions of others is neither here nor there as you cannot force her or scotland to remain.
I am not sure why this is hard to grasp and it will only ever be done in highly exceptional circumstances
Imagine if the EU said no you cannot leave we all have to vote on it. its ****ing ludicrous and has been done to death
The staggering arrogance of some people never ceases to amaze. "The Scots voted no" in one breath, "whinging Scots" in the next. "We" in one breath, "you" in the next.
The result was no, but at least 45% of people in this country want it to be independent. The third city in the uk doesn't want to be in it.The "there, you've had you're little vote now back in your box and we'll hear no more about it" attitude is ignorant in the extreme. If you can't understand that you don't just give up on independence then you've no appreciation of the strength of feeling. The Tories won the last election (sort of), why are we having another one, can't those labour lot just accept the result with good grace? Why did we have a devo vote in 97 when we'd already had one in 79?
There's been a surge in support for the SNP, and the other Yes parties and movements since the result. Exactly who the hell does anyone think they are to tell us we what we should support?
Actually, maybe it's insecurity rather than arrogance. "Leave? Don't you love me any more?"
Funny how that argument only seems to work one way?
Why did so many SNP voters vote NO?
Why did so many SNP voters vote NO?
How many?
Indeed lets see the stats/evidence to support that claim please
20%
And don't forget the irony of one large metropolitan area (nearly) determining the outcome for the rest.....hmmmm
[img] 
[/img]
teamhurtmore - Member
Funny how that argument only seems to work one way?Why did so many SNP voters vote NO?
That stretches credibility to the utmost to put it politely.
Did they find that figure in a huge pile of steaming bovine exhaust?
Scots have expressed their opinion of the SNP and its policies by joining the party in record numbers. Membership has gone up from 25,000 before the referendum to almost 100,000 in just a few weeks.
(And before I'm accused of being a SNP fan, I'll repeat I am not a member and have no intention of joining.)
Edit: for comparison's sake, the total membership of the Conservative Party throughout the UK is estimated at 135,000. Membership of the LibDem Party UK wide is estimated at 43,500. Both members of the Labour Party refused to comment on membership numbers. 🙂
^^^ I meant to say Scottish Labour.
Why confuse post-event trends with the event itself. The maths is straightforward and confirmed in the stats at the time. One in five SNP voters, voted NO. The canny 20%. Don't forget which side stretched credibility beyond breaking point - helps to explain the result.
Since then lots of people have switched to UKIP too. Apart from the similarities in both leaders lying through their teeth, so what? Different things altogether
Tried deodorant rene?
^^^ I meant to say [s]Scottish[/s] UK Labour branch office.
FTFY
EDIT: THM you really need to provide proof to your claims - you could provide proof and be all smug- Evidence is the best "argument"
Forgive the use of facts here
Original post
as he will probably tell us to google here is what I found
20 % comes from the torygraph
As well as the electoral map, polling by Lord Ashcroft, the Tory peer, also sheds light on the Yes camp’s disappointment.
According to the poll of 2,000 voters, one in five people who backed the SNP in the 2010 general election rejected independence this week. Even 14 per cent of SNP voters at the last Scottish Parliament election in 2011 voted No.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11110450/Scotland-referendum-analysis-how-Alex-Salmonds-core-vote-sealed-his-fate.html
He expresses it like this though
Meanwhile one in seven SNP voters opted to remain in the UK. Those who voted SNP in the last general election comprised just over half (53%) of the total Yes vote.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/
I am not sure where the 20% comes from tbh perhaps they worked it out but i cannot be arsed. 53% only being SNP would seem to destroy the view it was only a SNP supported view and I guess we could debate if 14 %or 20 % is many
With spin [ BS. lies and deceit as you would call it were AS doing it] you can possibly get to 20% but its probably fairer to say 14 % which is what he said.
Dangerously on topic it also found
Finally, for how long do Scottish voters think the question of independence will remain settled? A majority of those who voted No said they thought the issue was now resolved for at least a generation (28%) or forever (25%). Yes voters disagree: more than six in ten said they thought the matter was settled for no more than ten years, including nearly half (45%) who thought the question would remain closed for no more than five years.
[quote=unknown ]at least 45% of people in this country want it to be independent.
Has there been some other vote I've missed? Because in the most obvious recent one the number was nowhere near that high.
😆at least 45% of people [b]who expressed a preference [/b]
45% of those who voted , as you well know, pedant 😛
Then again they would have won had it not been for the older voters 😉
[quote=scotroutes ]at least 45% of people who expressed a preference
er, no, not quite that either 😉
Then again they would have won had it not been for the older voters
Along with the English voters. The number of English people who live in Scotland and were eligible to vote wasn't far off the difference between the Yes and No votes.
so there we have it is the english and the old who are to blame...no arguing with science now is there 😉
[quote=epicsteve ]
Along with the English voters. The number of English people who live in Scotland and were eligible to vote wasn't far off the difference between the Yes and No votes.Then again they would have won had it not been for the older voters
Aye - but you're surely not suggesting they all voted no?
No, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue about who [s]killed[/s]voted for who !
😀
typical of the english oppressor FFFFFFFRRRRRREEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM
Junky seen earlier;
[img] 
[/img]
Aye - but you're surely not suggesting they all voted no?
97.3% of those that voted did.
I get why the pain is so harsh. Facts, truth and logic aside, yS had everything aligned for an easy win. And yet the most astute politician in the uk (no, really) misses the open goal.
If it were not for the fact that the result is a win, win for everyone, I would be a bit pissed too I was a yS suporter. Still if you cannae carry your own side, what hope is there for you?
Now you have the best solution possible, STFU, count your blessings (not least we are rid of wee eck for now) and get on with it.
Doesnt surprise me that SNP membership is rocketing. The yes vote was always far more vocal than the no, and from what I can see many simply refuse to give up on the independence dream and are desperate to continue the momentum
The silent majority that is the No vote probably don't really give a shit anymore, they got what they wanted and have moved on
On the topic of more powers to Scotland within the union, I'm pretty convinced that if Devo Max had been an option on the paper the Yes Vote would have been far smaller than what it was (as would the no vote obviously), so I'd be staggered if any future Referendum didn't include this option, which would pretty much put an end to the subject.
