The camper van was not hidden. The £100 000 loan from Murrel to the party is what Sturgeon says she was not sure when she first knew of it
Quite. My finances wouldn't allow it, but for Mr and Mrs Murrell maybe it's just a splash in the ocean. Which is then a bit embarrassing if you're projecting yourself as "one of the people".
Arresting Sturgeon is surely the obvious step once you’ve had a chance to chat to the treasurer and the CEO (who also just happens to be her husband)?
Only if they have reasonable suspicion she has been involved in a crime. Presumably since they've made two arrests so far they have a reason to suspect there has actually been a crime. Either or both of those interviews may have increased or decreased that suspicion. BUT then they need to believe that she was involved in the crime. Its not at all obvious to me that a wife is usually implicit in the crimes of her husband (if there were any), but moreso as they seem to have a slightly "odd" relationship. So I expect they will only arrest her if they already know she's involved. I'd suggest there will be at least a couple of other people in party HQ in the firing line before she is.
I’m sure she can’t plead complete ignorance. Well, she can. Maybe she’s not visited the in-laws in the past couple of years? Otherwise you’d think “oh, nice motorhome” might have cropped up in conversation.
A political party acquiring a motorhome for the reason stated in the particular circumstances doesn't seem like a crime to me. It does seem very odd to me that they would chose to buy rather than lease or rent, and stupid that they would spend quite as much on one - but those are not crimes. I've not seen any suggestion that it was ever used. Its seems unlikely that none of the neighbours have gossiped to the press and nobody had said they saw them using it so it seems likely that the press reports that it was kept at his mother's house since it was bought are quite literal. Keeping company property at the CEO's mother's house is not a crime. If there's no secure storage for it at party HQ and the finances were in as bad shape as reports suggest then not paying a storage fee might be the one sensible financial decision he made.
Er. selling it would be the sensible financial decision, especially if its a liability and hasn't actually been used
Quite amusing reading some of the obviously pro SNP poster looking to defend or play down some dodgy goings on - whether they are criminal or just "stupid" actions will be the outcome of the investigation
Either is pretty damning, if they can't sort their own parties finances and possibly have been hiding stuff, would you trust them to run the country effectively? I wouldn't. Terrible own goal. I did say to the missus there was something up when NS just resigned. I joked, that it would have been some sort of covid party gate breach at the time....
Either is pretty damning, if they can’t sort their own parties finances and possibly have been hiding stuff, would you trust them to run the country effectively? I wouldn’t.
Once again, pretty sure the plan is not for Scotland to be a single-party state post-independence.
Er. selling it would be the sensible financial decision, especially if its a liability and hasn’t actually been used
My guess is that by selling it after not using it that appears as a loss on the balance sheet. Keeping it and pretending it will be used sometime it remains an asset
for sure its awfu weird tho
The point I was making was that the media are making this the main news in Scotland because of the way that the SNP had 'attacked' them. This is nothing about the way the media handled the independence campaign.
The attacks came from the media first! Scots media has been shown to be biassed against the SNP. When there is clear evidence of bias do you ignore it or call it out?
The media tends to be against any party in power. Especially parties that have been in power for an extensive time period. See also the media against the Conservative party in the UK Parliament. If we expect the media to keep the ruling party 'honest', then it will always appear to be anti the ruling party.
In any case calling out the SNP for it's inept management of its finances is not anti-SNP. It is what is expected.
Of course - but the scottish media are proven to be biased against independence and the SNP.
The two things can co exist
Either is pretty damning, if they can’t sort their own parties finances and possibly have been hiding stuff, would you trust them to run the country effectively? I wouldn’t.
Once again, pretty sure the plan is not for Scotland to be a single-party state post-independence.
@brucewee but the SNP are the party in government now and controlling Scotlands finances now, whether we are independent at this point is immaterial. This is just a gift to the unionists, look - ferry!
@sadmadalan
The media have generally been hostile to all the independence supporting parties and organisations for many years as have many other "institutions" in Scotland.
As they have a vested interest in stirring up shi-hite to sell more toilet paper.
but the SNP are the party in government now and controlling Scotlands finances now, whether we are independent at this point is immaterial. This is just a gift to the unionists, look – ferry!
That's not the argument though. The Unionist argument is this issue 'proves' Scotland can't be independent because it would just mess things up.
The other Unionist argument is that independence would mean SNP forever. As I said earlier, I doubt the SNP would even make it as far as the first election.
If the issue is the SNP then just start supporting independence. That'll take care of the SNP problem once and for all.
Quite an interesting article in the Guardian about this. The transition from protest movement with some political representation to political power was so rapid that the internal party processes and governance were not suitable for the change and led to the situation we have now. rings trueish to me
Still can't like posts so Tja +1.
internal party processes and governance were not suitable for the change
The ring fenced funds issue was quite simple. It wasn't SNP money so should never have been in an SNP bank account. If it had been paid into a seperate Indy Campaign account none of these arrests would have happened as long as the cash was left where it was.
Still can’t like posts so Tja +1.
Click the grey ST logo next to username - then by the power of hamsters it turns gold! 🙂
Only for Full Members though?
See also the media against the Conservative party in the UK Parliament
Pretty sure you mean the non-MSM with the exception of The Guardian, who just try and report facts in their newspaper.
The mental gymnastics to hold the belief that the same people who couldn't competently manage a transition in a political party over a decade have carefully thought through the practical implications of independence are astounding.
I'm in between a print membership and a digital one and so expect the ability to like things will resume in a few weeks
.
The mental gymnastics to hold the belief that the same people who couldn’t competently manage a transition in a political party over a decade have carefully thought through the practical implications of independence are astounding.
If there wasn't an election between a vote for independence and actually declaring independence I'd be very surprised. The Tories had to have two before they managed to leave the EU.
I'll up my bid from earlier and say that I don't reckon the SNP would even make it as far as indy being declared before the party exploded.
Unless you are talking about Scots in general and not the SNP?
The mental gymnastics to hold the belief that the same people who couldn’t competently manage a transition in a political party over a decade have carefully thought through the practical implications of independence are astounding.
so we are back to " to stupid to run our own country, Best to let the smart folk down south do it"
The (possibly criminal) incompetence of the SNP is a reflection on the SNP not the whole of Scotland. Demonstrably incompetent in internal governance - delivering poor outcomes for Scots in health, education and economy but yet somehow to be trusted on independence. Shysters.
The (possibly criminal) incompetence of the SNP is a reflection on the SNP not the whole of Scotland. Demonstrably incompetent in internal governance – delivering poor outcomes for Scots in health, education and economy but yet somehow to be trusted on independence. Shysters.
Best thing to do is wholeheartedly support independence then.
Indy is the only way to get rid of the SNP.
So the scots are too stupid to run their own country
By those standards surely the Scots parliament should be running England because without a shadow of doubt the incompetence in Westminster is orders of magnitude worse
The more I read your comments Brucewee the more you make SNP sound like UKIP.
UKIP got brexit and basically vanished. Single policy party
I'm not sure the parallels are a good thing.
Look at how difficult getting the uk out of eu has been, and a massive cock up. Anyone who thinks it won't be the same, or worse splitting two far more interlinked countries is deluded
and.... I'd have no problem with England being lead by a credible, honest and effective scot. We just need good leadership.
Look at how difficult getting the uk out of eu has been, and a massive cock up. Anyone who thinks it won’t be the same, or worse splitting two far more interlinked countries is deluded
Or, people who believe that sitting in a car as a lunatic drives it off a cliff are deluded.
Just get out the car, FFS. Your seatbelt might make you feel better but it's not going to save you from a 200ft plunge into the sea.
They're doing a fine job all by themselves.
and…. I’d have no problem with England being lead by a credible, honest and effective scot. We just need good leadership.
And I'd have no problem sticking with the UK if the constitutional issues were sorted out (end to FPTP, complete overhall of the HoL, written binding constitution, proper devolution of regions with veto power for national initiatives, oh, and don't forget getting back in the EU).
Those are my conditions for supporting the Union. Do you have any conditions for supporting independence or are you an unconditional British Nationalist?
They’re doing a fine job all by themselves.
As long as support for indy remains around 50% and there is no other major party supporting independence you're stuck with the SNP, I'm afraid.
Like I said, there's a one-shot solution to get rid of them.
Indy is the only way to get rid of the SNP.
The way it's carrying on, the way that the SNP breaks up will be by it's own hand. Other independence campaigners are available and others will appear. The demand for an Independent Scotland is not restricted to the existence of this particular party.
DT78 If you look at the current UK government you'll find a distinct resemblance to UKIP.
One is a hypothetical view based on not liking a predicted path but is not based on any real evidence. No one can predict the future
One is a factual view based on observation of a very similar action, that is still ongoing
Like I said the problem is terrible politicians and leaders - thats what needs resolving. I don't care about the nationality, ethnicity, gender or whatever of the leader, even thinking about scot vs english is divisive and I'm surprised people think thats ok
I think the main reason I was so surprised and disappointed about NS / SNP was not that I wanted independence but I thought she actually represented the sort of politician I was hoping we would see more off. Seems I was taken in by a scottish version of ukip...
And I think the current uk gov needs to change I am agreeing with you that it is awful, but I'm saying it needs sorting, not 'cutting your nose off to spite your face' if thats the right saying
If someone was able to prove that splitting countries up would be an improvement for all citizens (in both countries) I would support it. All I see is a massive waste of time, energy and money and an action that would increase division. Brexit seems to have polarised people and not for the better. There are so many other issues that that time, energy and money could be spent on improving the peoples lives
And I think the current uk gov needs to change I am agreeing with you that it is awful, but I’m saying it needs sorting, not ‘cutting your nose off to spite your face’ if thats the right saying
No, not just the government, the entire system needs to change.
I laid out exactly what that change should look like above. If a party came along with a single focus of resolving the constitutional issues I would support that party*
There is NO sign of any of the changes I listed happening bar Labour making some noises about the HoL which is probably at the bottom of my list in terms of importance anyway.
Again, what would make you support independence or is your support of the Union unconditional?
*Before anyone says Lib-Dems, that's not what I mean. The Lib-Dems are for getting some scraps of power and against not getting some scraps of power. They will disregard any policy for a seat at the table. I'm talking DUP levels of commitment to the constitutional issues.
proper devolution of regions with veto power for national initiatives,
That isn't devolution. As the gender bill showed it's the other way round. THe national govt has a veto when devolved govts exceed their powers.
Or, people who believe that sitting in a car as a lunatic drives it off a cliff are deluded.
Just get out the car, FFS. Your seatbelt might make you feel better but it’s not going to save you from a 200ft plunge into the sea.
Or leaping out of a frying pan and into a fire.
Although a post Brexit, post independence omnishambles all-round with a Scotland trying to rejoin the EU might just be enough to elicit another referendum south of the border which would probably result in vote to rejoin because I don't believe Scotland is any more pro-EU than the rest of the UK, they just have healthier opportunities to put two fingers up at Westminster.
maybe.... a SNP battlebus with a slogan about how much extra money the NHS would get might swing it....
That isn’t devolution.
It is in Belgium.
If someone was able to prove that splitting countries up would be an improvement for all citizens (in both countries) I would support it.
Ireland. There is your example,
I did add what I need to be convinced off to support splitting up any part of our country - it needs to be evidenced it will improve the lives of all of us.
Ireland. Isn't there the occasional bombing / shooting of people that sounds a great example
Or leaping out of a frying pan and into a fire.
Maybe.
But there are far more examples of similar sized countries to Scotland thriving through cooperation with it's neighbours than there are of UK-sized countries trying to go all North Korea and thriving.
I'll go with the examples that have been proven to work rather than hoping everything will magically sort itself out.
