Shibboleth - Member
piste discipline
Ignoring the rest of your post Shibb but you hit the nail on the head with that part. I ski and board depending who I'm with and have worked seasons in Europe and NZ and have to say it's all down to attitude, awareness, and a little thought for others. Some thoughts (apologies for the waffle, I tried to keep it brief!)
- Most folks spend a LOT of cash on just one week of mountain action each year so it's only natural to try to get as much out of that week as possible.
- Most folks either don't give a damn about mountain etiquette or don't know what it is. Those same folks wouldn't think twice about dribbling over the top of a high speed roller and stopping to watch their mates and/or chatter excitedly about it without realising they're about to get a haircut by Franz Klammer.
- Boarders sit down because they can! And because they have to, as already stated it's hard work standing on one edge for more than a couple of minutes.
- Skiing is harder to learn so once you are confident enough to pick up speed you'll probably be a bit more proficient at stopping. Worst case, snow plow or fall.
- Boarding is easier to learn (but harder to master) and a lot of people are egged on with lines like "I know it's a black, but just side slip it" - wrong! If you lose control on a board the tendency is to sit back which makes things a whole lot worse (straightline, pick up speed, no control with weight over back, can't get your feet out to bail = high speed impact of some kind).
- Agreed on the different lines for boarding and skiing, which is why it's best to ski/ride in a mixed group. Even if you only do one of the two disciplines you get an appreciation of how the other works and what sort of lines they look for.
- Agreed that you must be aware of those downslope of you (and preferably anyone faster upslope) and make allowances for them. I'm sure most/all capable skiers/boarders have at some point used the 4pm chicken run as practice for evasive manoeuvres, I know I have and still do sometimes but I'd be mortified if I actually took someone out. I actually like to pretend I have a heads up display in my goggles tracking everyone and flashing red if I've been "engaged" but that's another thread 🙂
@tonyd....good post.
I think driving is a good analogy...
Imagine you were on the motorway and everyone had their mirrors removed, and one group of drivers drove in one way, and the other group drove in a different way. And there were no lanes. There would be carnage.
I don't know if people have ever seen those driving simulation things on TV where it tracks your eye movement to see how you pick out potential hazards. I follow the same approach when I'm driving...look ahead, pick out the best line and keep an eye out for potential hazards.
It's something you get told in more advanced lessons...one instructor I had years ago used to say to people who were looking at the ground directly in front of them that if they found any money, it was his. Look ahead - far ahead...if there's a kid give him a wide birth and keep an eye on him. If there's some people off piste looking like they're about to go over a little jump onto the piste...keep an eye on them and keep a wide birth.
I will usually glance up the hill if I'm about to do something unusual...like change direction suddenly, do a little trick, or whatever.
These are things that everyone should do regardless of whether they are on a board or skis...personally I think a lot of it is just common sense.
singletrack piste - that would solve the whole situation
That'll be the haggis trap then! 😉
I think motorway driving is a [i]very[/i] good analogy, it's your responsibility if you rear-end someone but you've also got to look behind you before you swing a big left or rightI think driving is a good analogy...
tonyd makes some good points but...
- Skiing is harder to learn so once you are confident enough to pick up speed you'll probably be a bit more proficient at stopping. Worst case, snow plow or fall.- Boarding is easier to learn (but harder to master) and a lot of people are egged on with lines like "I know it's a black, but just side slip it" - wrong! If you lose control on a board the tendency is to sit back which makes things a whole lot worse (straightline, pick up speed, no control with weight over back, can't get your feet out to bail = high speed impact of some kind).
...is completely the wrong way around!
tonyd makes some good points but...- Skiing is harder to learn so once you are confident enough to pick up speed you'll probably be a bit more proficient at stopping. Worst case, snow plow or fall.
- Boarding is easier to learn (but harder to master) and a lot of people are egged on with lines like "I know it's a black, but just side slip it" - wrong! If you lose control on a board the tendency is to sit back which makes things a whole lot worse (straightline, pick up speed, no control with weight over back, can't get your feet out to bail = high speed impact of some kind).
...is completely the wrong way around!
This is also a good post...I noticed that but forgot to mention the error of his ways before I agreed with everything he said.
I think tony_d is right on with his assessment of snowboarding being easier to learn. Yes you fall over more in the first week, but typically on a snowboard a beginner will be able to get around more of the mountain in their first week than the equivalent beginner skier, if only because of the dreaded sideslip all the way down the steep slopes.
Skiing defo easier in the first day or two on the bunny slopes and easy greens, but as soon as it gets a bit steeper the beginner snowboarder has it easier.
working in the ski business you hear this a lot.
fact is that all people who choose to slide down a mountain amongst crowds of complete strangers accepts a risk as to the ability of their fellow skiers and boarders.
I've been cut up by virtually every mode of getting down a mountain possible - skiers, boarders, piste bashers, ski bikes and snow mobiles. Some were accidents, some were people being inconsiderate. some were people being dicks.
I've cut people up myself (by accident, and I did stop to say sorry) in the past. I snowboard, so that probably helped reinforce the stereotype.
With regards to sitting underneath a crest, I'd say thats a cliche, and you might ski over 100 crests in a day, and the one time you see a snowboarder underneath one, the cliche is reinforced. One could ask the question - should anyone be skiing at full speed over blind crests?
thats my two pennies.
Nothing like lively debate. Seems all we can draw from this is that:
Skiers cut other people up . . .
Snowboarders cut other people up too . . . but probably have a lot more fun in the process!
as a boarder ive been taken out by boarders and skiers over the years. there are ****s in both sports and it's not just the boarders. Best decision i ever made was to buy a helmet.
I don't think it's to do with ski or board. It's about failing to look ahead and changing line or slowing to avoid endangering those below you.
It is true that a lot of boarders don't seem to learn slalom turns and only do gs turns which is limiting. It taught myself slalom so that I could turn every second and ride in a three metre wide track on moderate slopes. This is a very useful and fun technique allowing riding at the edge of the run which most people avoid.
We all screw up sometime but some of the behaviour you see on busy runs is worrying. Some good advice i got to avoid being hit was to ride the fall line and not to make big traverses into your blind spot. Be careful out there
Skiers cut other people up . . .Snowboarders cut other people up too . . . but probably have a lot more fun in the process!
You are SO wrong! 😉
Jimbo, how's the new job going, fella?
I shouldn't be so pious though. I once skied into my own class as i was eyeing up a girl i fancied 😯
The only times I've been taken out were by skiers, both hit me from behind and I'm experienced.
If you're deciding to stop, do it at the side of the piste,
When setting off from the side of the piste, look uphill first to check nothing's coming before you set off,
Anyone in front has right of way, its up to the person behind to avoid them in a controlled manner, even if they are swerving about all over the show.
I actually think there is alot to be said for self teaching, it tends to mean you read up on stuff and therefore learn the technicalities more
this assumes you are teaching yourself and reading up, rather than just following your mate "cos it's easy, innit"
CFH - all good thanks - off out to north carolina next month to look at a new place. nice to be working back in brighton.
Happy days, Jimbo! Am jealous!
I'm off to Shanghai and Singapore next month. Not taking my skis, though.....
Off to Hemel on Saturday for a play, though. Hoping to make use of the test pool to try these;
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Thought I'd mention, saw a really nasty collision today between a snowboarder and a skier. I don't know whose fault it was but both were knocked unconscious for at least a minute and both were wearing helmets. It made me think how much worse it would have been if they were not wearing helmets.
...a lot of boarders don't seem to learn slalom turns and only do gs turns which is limiting. It taught myself slalom so that I could turn every second and ride in a three metre wide track on moderate slopes.
As a self-taughter: what are "slalom turns" versus "gs turns"?
Never heard those terms applied to snowboarding before, I've only really heard cross-over and cross-under, are they the same?
Cross-under turns:
Cross-over turns:
