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@trailrat - no justification, this is through a member of the service team comms desk
go to head office / importer
I wouldn't go to head office - the 'contractual rights' are with the dealer you bought from. Aside from all the stuff about CRA vs SOGA this seems clearcut. If anyone needs to get Head Office involved it's the dealer you have the contract with.
You bought a car with a FMDSH, from a franchised dealer (hang on - assume a franchise of the marque you bought, although even that shouldn't matter) and they serviced it before you bought.
7 months later the chain snaps and eats a large part of the engine. OK, there's a complexity, takes it out of the 6mo period in the CRA where it is assumed the fault was present into a position where burden of proof is on you to to show that the fault was present - but there's evidence of 1/ loads of other engines doing the same; 2/ them (the company / its dealers) having done repairs and replacement in similar situations; 3/ they now don't sell a 7mm version having identified the issue and speccing an 8mm now; 4/ it's still in the service interval etc..... 5/ need I go on.
This is as clear cut to me as it gets, that the fault was clearly one that was there at purchase even if it didn't manifest until after the 6mo where it was assumed to be there, and therefore it's on the dealer that you bought it from to fix / replace / whatever as stipulated in the CRA.
Only possible get out to me would be if you were explicity told or it is substantially implied you should have known that this had the dodgy chain in there, and maybe price reflected it.
Stick to your guns, read and then keep quoting that these are your rights under the CRA and are they denying you your statutory rights, etc. And if necessary a lawyers "letter before action" would be my consideration.
Thanks
To be fair to the service team they are working their arses off for me
I got similar "need to authorise costs for diagnosis" with a Volvo main dealer warranty but luckily fault appeared before the 6 months was up so pushed back that I'd just reject the car if they didn't just sort it out. Wish you all the luck with getting it sorted.
Once again,
There is a difference between a warranty and statutory rights. If you want work doing "under warranty" then they can make up whatever horseshit takes their fancy to tell you it's not covered. A warranty is in addition to CRA, not instead of it. CRA is backed up by law, that's what "statutory" means.
Buying a used vehicle from a dealer you have the same rights as buying new. Goods have to be of "satisfactory quality" which is defined in a woolly fashion as what a reasonable person would expect. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a vehicle with a full main dealer service history to explode after 7 months.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect a vehicle with a full main dealer service history to explode after 7 months.
Stands alone, but add in "in a manner that other similar vehicles have done, and which they have fixed with a redesigned system on later models and have retrofit kits for on this one, all within the service interval for that particular part" and honestly, I think the only thing they're doing is being a bit difficult in the hope you don't know your rights and roll over to paying for it.
KNOW YOUR RIGHTS
and insist on them being honoured. No more, no less.
as to
To be fair to the service team they are working their arses off for me
Hmmm.... they all work for the same firm, they all need to be knocked into line here. They know they're on the hook for this. To me working my arse off would look more like
"I'm so sorry, yes, there are some with a fault, we'll get it in asap, rebuilt with the new 8mm setup and all other damaged parts replaced, it'll be no cost to you and meanwhile here's a courtesy car for the inconvenience"
It's looking a little more hopeful, will report back tomorrow. The dealer service team and one person in particular are working tirelessly.
I haven't seen it and from your description I am 100% the chain has snapped. Good luck OP!
As soon as they commit to a broken chain, that's it.
Any further inspection is on them, at their expense.
If nothing changes tomorrow then you need proper legal advice. You should be able to get a free consultation with either a solicitor, CAB or council consumer rights. Take your pick
Sales Teams are arses. Service Teams much better.
I bought the Vivaro from a main dealer. Couple of things.. Car had expensive rear 'modular' mats which aren't standard - these enable you to move the mats about as you slide the chairs or rotate them - but no front - sales team not interested (bought a front mat only from CarMats.co.uk - executive version for £70). Roof of van hadn't been cleaned in a long time - rest of car was spotless, but even being on crutches, I managed to peek at the roof (mainly to look at roof bar points) - oh the roof is green. Got a 'sorry'.
It was the car I wanted and rare - they didn't know that. My wife was expecting to 'bargain' - there just isn't any bargaining to be had if you turn up with the cash, even £30k for the van. Now, on 'Finance'..... I explained to my wife the market has changed, and unless you are buying on Finance there is little to no negotiation for any extras due to zero commission on the 'financing'.
Hope you get some more luck with them OP - you should as the car is mid term in a service interval. Fingers crossed
Mine is 3 1/2 years old, and now of 37k with one dealer service done on the dot. Next not due till October (commercial lengths) - I bought two years servicing and warranty, which was about £700, but small when the van cost £30k. It's a much bigger cost proportionally for a lower capital outlay.
No bargaining eh, Madame Edukator got 1700e off and the colour she wanted for free on our last purchase. maybe you should have let your wife negotiate, fossy. 😉 We wrote a cheque.
6h hours labour to confirm a diagnostic the AA man made by taking the oil filler cap off does seem excessive. In that time they can get the head and sump off and then some.
1700e doesn't seem like much of a discount for the steering wheel being on the wrong side of the car.
France isn't it. UK dealers a bit shoot on moving on a deal for cash. I wanted the 'vehicle' as I'd been looking for a year for the exact spec - didn't tell them that.
I'm not a vauxhall master mechanic and I reckon in 90 mins I could have enough off pretty much any 4 pot motor to tell you how buggered it is.
In 6 hours I would be expecting a complete strip down.
I'm not a vauxhall master mechanic
Past experience at Vauxhall says neither are they
I'm not a vauxhall master mechanic and I reckon in 90 mins I could have enough off pretty much any 4 pot motor to tell you how buggered it is.
In 6 hours I would be expecting a complete strip down.
A master tech is unlikely to be stripping something like this 😉
I managed to avoid dealing with anything more than a cambelt change on the 1.5, but have seen a few rocker boxes changed on them. It would probably take you 90minutes just to get a clear view of the rocker box, as swapping them was a full shift.
The timing chain was more likely to jump than completely fail, so until you had the rocker box fully off, you couldn't really tell if that was the actual failure, or the extent of the damage, as you had to have the complete rocker box removed to check the cam timing.
However I never seen any that gone done by my previous employer need anything more than a new rocker box and set of cam followers.
Past experience at Vauxhall says neither are they
Ha, I once had a mate of my cousin, who was a Vauxhall apprentice change a Cavalier cam belt by simply cutting off the old one and levering the replacement into place with a screwdriver. The normal way to do it at his garage apparently.
TBF it worked and lasted a few years until rust got to the body at nearly 200k miles.
No bargaining eh, Madame Edukator got 1700e off and the colour she wanted for free on our last purchase. maybe you should have let your wife negotiate, fossy. 😉 We wrote a cheque.
You're not in England though are you?
It's very much gone to the sticker price is the price especially at main dealers. Back street car dealers you may get a little bit of wiggle-room. But there's 100% no mats-n-flaps deals out there now!
And cheques - how quaint! 🤣
We wrote a cheque.
Think the conversation relates to car purchasing in the last 30 years.
Sales Teams are arses. Service Teams much better.
Very much. Our Merc we bought from a Honda main dealer and went through their million point check or whatever it was failed pretty catastrophically on an MOT a couple of months later. Honda accepted they'd fkd up and fixed everything but the sales teams tried to charge us about 400 quid for the labour. We went down to the dealership to collect the car ready for a battle to point out we wouldn't be paying anything but the sales manager wasn't there. Spoke to the service/workshop manager instead who agreed it was farcical, handed us the keys and said he'd clear it with the sales manager and that we wouldn't hear anymore about it. We never did...
Five years ago. I wrote another big cheque last week, they're quite convenient for things that are beyond the limits on credit cards and Internet banking. The bank contacts me if they have doubt.
Contrary to some of the above, it's possible and common to speak to the manufacturer's call centre. No experience of Vx, but my wife has spent a lot of time working with Contact Centres for a few UK vehicle manufacturers. Including one who has to do an awful lot of warranty work 😀
Dealers can authorise a certain amount of work, but beyond that the CSC has the ability to provide more. (Up to and including 100% and buy-backs) They can and do overrule the dealerships.
It's always best to try the dealer first as it's good to have them on your side. But don't be fobbed off. If your not getting the right resolution, speak to the head office.
Five years ago. I wrote another big cheque last week, they're quite convenient for things that are beyond the limits on credit cards and Internet banking. The bank contacts me if they have doubt.
Faster Payments limit is £1m. I'm not exceeding that any time soon.
Handy in the same way faxes are for sending photos that are too big for email
*shrugs*
These days, the only point to cheques is when you hope they don't get cashed.
France may be different, of course.
Banks typically have a lower limit for in app use of Faster Payments e.g. £20k for NatWest due to push frauds. In branch can be higher due to extra customer ID&V and business limits may be higher too.
In France cheques seem to be mainly used to ensure that Supermarket checkouts are as inefficient as possible. Why have 2 trolley-loads waiting in each line when you could have 10?
OP, when it was last serviced (I assume by the supplying dealer), what oil was used?
If it has full dealer service history, then the issue is with the dealer, IMO...even if it was mostly serviced at an indie, and then had a service at a dealer, they should have flagged it up as a major potential issue if it was unclear the cambelt/chain wasn't appraised/replaced correctly.... (as an arse-covering excersise more than anything)
it's not rocket science... it's just passing the buck.
Same anti car dealer nonsence. Not all dealers are terrible.
If its got full complete svc history ask the service team to speak to the manufacturers CSU team and raise a goodwill request. Also call the manufacturers CSu team and lodge a querry.
Remember youll get more by being nice. When i did it if someone came in being an arse banging on about how the trades crap and i im going to trading standards id do the bare minimum.
However turn up be nice bring biscuits and the service team will fight your corner.
It's in process. Vauxhall are applying good will when they receive the necessary paperwork.
The dealer is pricing up the parts/new engine
Just a polite waiting game now.
The second team have been excellent
Remember youll get more by being nice. When i did it if someone came in being an arse banging on about how the trades crap and i im going to trading standards id do the bare minimum.
I worked in or adjacent to Support for years. This is 100% correct. Even on a helpdesk which was permanently under the cosh, we could frig the system to prioritise customers we liked. The "my email is down so I'm calling the CEO!" types got hoofed to the back of the queue and got dealt with when we absolutely had to.
FTR you can be both perfectly nice, polite and reasonable, and at the same time absolutely firm and crystal clear in your requests and expectations.
Trouble is in too many areas, and indeed some car service / dealerships, a less confident 'negotiator' ends up getting shafted - in this specific example, and after a quick google previously, there's enough examples of folk who have ended up paying for this fault to be resolved for me to know that some dealers have not been completely transparent in affording the customer their statutory rights. Or have weaselled out 'Oh, that's not exactly the specc'ed oil', 'Oh, that service was 100 miles late', etc. - which has had bollocks-all impact on this badly designed engine crapping itself.
Even the above 'Vauxhall are applying good will' is frankly a cop out, Vauxhall are giving OP just what the law says he is entitled to and 'good will' is irrelevant. Yes yes, I know why it's called goodwill, that in itself is weaselling out of admitting a problem and doing a proper recall
The dealer is pricing up the parts/new engine
This sounds to me like OP is going to get a bill at the end...
Yep fully expect that
Yep fully expect that
Yep fully expect that
Same anti car dealer nonsence. Not all dealers are terrible.
Not from me. After the terrible Statstone experience we bought the next from Lloyds in Colne who were superb. Used them plenty of times since. The reason I had a Ford Fiesta, three Focus and a Kuga one after another was because the local Ford dealer was top quality.
You want new car warranty buy a new car.
Sounds a bit shit but its why its cheaper... all the noise about the manufacturer should fix. Yep. In the warranty period.
20yrs in the trade been there.
Also.... no payment no warranty. You pay an element of the repair you get 12mth statuary.
If you get stuck and you can find me call me
#bteam