[Closed] 'smacking children'...what's the STW opinion?

No I wouldn't and don't. Its simply inflicting physical pain on young children which makes any reasoning or justification irrelevant IMHO.

Like kippers or in a rizla?

Kippers, smoke them till they cry.

Our inability to differentiate successfully between a "smack" and "assault" (in both directions) is one area where we have let down children IMO.

Can't see the big deal myself with a smack in certain circumstance.

But equally I'm not sure I'd believe the parents that they've brought up great kids, hardly subjective are they. I bet loddriks kids are currently beating others up for their dinner money as we speak.

But equally I'm not sure I'd believe the parents that they've brought up great kids, hardly subjective are they.

That's a very good point, my two are right little g*ts!

It's illegal in pretty much all other European countries, and it is hard to argue that their kids are far worse behaved than UK kids. So there is clearly a way to bring up kids without smacking that (over a population) doesn't have a detrimental effect on behaviour.

The fact of it being legal here, means that people who do hit their children very regularly (ie. child abusers) may be able to get away with it as long as they don't bruise or scratch them.

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/family/children/parental_advice/500558.html

loddrik what will you do if in 3-5yrs one of your children starts getting into trouble/goes off the rails?
Pour them a cup of Chamomile tea and suggest Yoga?

Most ridiculous statement you've [u]ever[/u] made and there is quite a canon to choose from.

I agree that loddrik is coming across a little sanctimonious and maybe smug but I agree with his sentiments 100%. My two are 9 and 14 and have never been smacked by me. I find communication, consistency and clear boundaries do the trick.

I think Loddrik's being spot on - I don't fully agree with what he's saying (as I'm on the other side of the smacking fence, so to speak), but I'm finding his posts far more urbanely-put than some of the sarcastic responses he's received on this topic.

One 'undred!

I wonder how many of your wives resort to the occasional smack?

Deprivation of internet is the new smacking.

I read that "if you aim to never smack your children, you'll probably smack them the right amount".

Thare have been occasions where I have smacked my children when they were younger. Reason now works, and internet deprivation.

And who would need to smack other people's kids. As any experienced parent knows, all kids are MUCH better behaved for other parents. Isn't that right Mrs Patterson?

As a not-entriely-unrelated aside, my bro just posted this on FB -
"Another one of those moments that makes me proud of my home town - tracksuited reprobate teaching his 2/3 year old son to lob two fingers at his (tracksuited) mate as he approaches. Now the kid is doing it to all passers by. Super. To be fair to mum though, she did threaten to 'break his f****n neck' if he did it again. So at least one of them is practising responsible parenting."
You can make as much or as little of that as you please.

Nobody needs to smack there child is a very week form of punishment and exposes any parents lack of parenting skills. I have never smacked any if my two boys never wanted to or had the need. They know how to behave and know the consequences if they don't ie lack of privileges etc. If you don't bring your children up to be caring and compassionate and know the boundaries then your making a rod for your own back. Plus it's far easier to have two wonderful respectful well mannered children.

Nope. Violence is not the answer.

How do you support this, given that evidence from behavioural psychology says that if delivered immediately, it is.

How do you support this, given that evidence from behavioural psychology says that if delivered immediately, it is.

Can you elaborate on that?

If you mean that violence will stop people doing something, then maybe.

However I don't believe that violence or the threat of it the best way to teach a child right from wrong.

I wonder how many of your wives resort to the occasional smack?

After a couple of days 'solo' I assumed she smoked it to get through the day 🙂

That said, neither of us have ever felt the need to smack them. Always seems to be through anger which can't be right. I do shop in Asda though 😉

Coyote I'm confused. Every child/situation is different. Congratulations that you don't have a lively/feisty/over-active child. At Uni I knew a couple of lads probably like yours and nicknamed them the 'personality twins'.

Now go and eat your lentils.

(Sorry you trolled me so vice versa).

How do you support this, given that evidence from behavioural psychology says that if delivered immediately, it is.

Junkyard. I knew a world of violence. Why don't I have a criminal conviction to my name or a problem with threatening behaviour?

I could have gone the other way and become introverted and a 'victim' too.

However I'm feisty, GSOH and well-balanced. I don't believe chastising a child (or violence to a child) automatically leads to violent behaviour.

I don't believe chastising a child (or violence to a child) automatically leads to violent behaviour.

Most people don't, but it's about likelihood isn't it?

Junkyard. I knew a world of violence. Why don't I have a criminal conviction to my name or a problem with threatening behaviour?

I could have gone the other way and become introverted and a 'victim' too.

However I'm feisty, GSOH and well-balanced. I don't believe chastising a child (or violence to a child) automatically leads to violent behaviour.

So is the counter to that argument that using violence will prevent your child from becoming violent as they become older or simply that despite you being brought up in a violent atmosphere you still managed to grow up to become a well balanced pleasant adult?

Hora. Both children were* very lively, active and perfectly normal thank you very much.

Both have clear boundaries, good diet, plenty love and no violence. Son is very sporty and does the usual stuff a 9 y/o does.

*daughter is now a teenager...

I believe you are confusing punishment and violence here

No i 'm not. It doesn't matter how it is framed, punishment or violence immediately after a behaviour results in animals, children, adults stopping that behaviour.

You are also confusing something that works and something that is just - killing everyone who ever commits a crime stops all reoffending for example but it may not be the right thing to do.

No i'm not.

My mother used to give me a good hiding every Thursday behind woolies after I took tantrums.
I think i was a horror. 🙂
Me & the missus talk about this loads. I don't want to smack my boy ,but if he became out of control and endangered himself or another child for instance,I wouldn't rule out a good rattle.
I have the best intentions of not smacking tho'.

No i 'm not. It doesn't matter how it is framed, punishment or violence immediately after a behaviour results in animals, children, adults stopping that behaviour.

Alright, so it stops the behaviour - but it is overall the most productive solution?

CM whilst there is some merits in what you are saying you are grossly over simplifying to the point it is just not true or aversion therapy would have a 100 % success rate

If what you said was true I could beat someone to stop them being gay or Malala Yousufzai would no longer want to be educated.
Its more complicated than you suggest

I smacked my partners niece. Her brother has 3 kids all appallingly behaved. The niece came up to me and started kicking me in the shins. I asked her to stop, she didn't, advised her I'd smack her if she continued and she carried on so turned her round and smacked her on the are not very hard. She looked very confused then went and sat down. Only time she has behaved for at least 30 minutes that I've seen. This was in front of both parents who said nothing. I would dearly love to smack both of them very hard.

CM whilst there is some merits in what you are saying you are grossly over simplifying to the point it is just not true or aversion therapy would have a 100 % success rate

Behaviourist approaches do, have very high predictive validity. Of course it's being simplified! Surely no one expected that 100years of behaviourism was represented in one or two lines. Oversimplified the point that it is not true? No, that's not the case.

If what you said was true I could beat someone to stop them being gay or Malala Yousufzai would no longer want to be educated

These are behaviours, so no, behaviourism would not work here..

Its more complicated than you suggest

Well duh!

CM is playing Devil's advocate...

Behaviourism does not work with behaviours 😀

if you had done it better i would be citing by now

You find that funny? So you mean behaviourism [i]does[/i] work with behaviours?

Well, seeing as it is illegal to smack in Scotland, we have refrained. 😉

Just love angst and anger wrapped up in liberalism from stw

Illegal in Scotland? Really?

Yes its the only thing in Scotland you cannot batter

IGMC

behaviourism does work with behaviours?

I think the main thing to remember when disciplining kids, be it raising your voice, smacking, or imposing some kind of penalty, is to be in control when you do it. If you are in danger of losing your temper, you have to stop and calm down.

Discipline needs to be proportionate and consistent, you can't guarantee that if you're always losing your rag.

So JY, we can agree that that behaviourism works with behaviours?
is Malala's desire for education a behaviour?
Is homosexuality a behaviour?

Behavior or behaviour is the range of actions and mannerisms made by organisms, systems, or artificial entities in conjunction with their environment, which includes the other systems or organisms around as well as the physical environment. It is the response of the system or organism to various stimuli or inputs, whether internal or external, conscious or subconscious, overt or covert, and voluntary or involuntary.

Behaviorism, also known as behavioral psychology, is a theory of learning based upon the idea that all behaviors are acquired through conditioning. Conditioning occurs through interaction with the environment. Behaviorists believe that our responses to environmental stimuli shapes our behaviors.

According to this school of thought, behavior can be studied in a systematic and observable manner with no consideration of internal mental states. It suggests that only observable behaviors should be studied, since internal states such as cognitions, emotions, and moods are too subjective.

I do this to educate and leave you to ponder on whether you can see me doing it and observe it 😛
I wont be replying as i doubt this is real discourse but if it was you have your answer and the power to google and educate yourself

I think you may have confused copy and pasting with education.

I asked some simple questions, you set out saying that i had oversimplified to the extent of being wrong. You've yet to show that.

😆

I was smacked frequently as a child and teenager (including being slapped across the face), I think it did do me harm and I have never smacked either of my boys (aged 16 and 8). I'd hope that my children are motivated to behave because they want to do the right thing, not because they live in fear of a smack.

[quote=dannyh ]I think the main thing to remember when disciplining kids, be it raising your voice, smacking, or imposing some kind of penalty, is to be in control when you do it. If you are in danger of losing your temper, you have to stop and calm down.
Discipline needs to be proportionate and consistent, you can't guarantee that if you're always losing your rag.
+1

Too many folk on this thread seem to be equating smacking with anger.

[quote=CharlieMungus ]Illegal in Scotland? Really?
No

I'd hope that my children are motivated to behave because they want to do the right thing, not because they live in fear of a smack

Exactly Vicky.

I find the idea of somebody "being in control" as he or she administers a smack (or whatever we want to call it) to a child slightly sinister. I could forgive somebody doing it because he or she lost his or her temper and thus self-control, but doing it in a calm and controlled manner? Hmmm...no likey the sound of that.