[Closed] Should Theresa May resign?

@zokes you clearly didn’t read the link

I did. The salient point being that institutes like UCLA are in the same ballpark as some pretty mediocre universities in the UK.

You, as usual, just cherry-picked a single data point at the extreme end. I do hope your job doesn't involve proficiency with numbers and data analysis...

My wife runs a large faculty at a red-brick university, outside of the uk.

In higher education, there is generally no correlation between the cost of the degree (to the student) and the quality of the educational experience.

Universities are run as businesses (often very poorly), it's just about supply and demand.

batfink - Member

In higher education, there is generally no correlation between the cost of the degree (to the student) and the quality of the educational experience.

Absolutely agree with that. But tbh quantifying quality is a black art. There's a reason universities quote different stats, if we have a good year in the NSS then that's the most important stat, if we have a bad year in CUG we'll decry its artificial, gameable standards or its dependence on unreliable records. And even things like NSS are dubious because practically no students can usefully compare their university with others, it's like writing a review for the only restaurant you've ever eaten in. Graduate employability? Well, ours is shit hot but not because we're amazing, just because of the course specialisations we have, we're a very applied uni. If we added a hundred english lit or journalism students it'd crash that number but it wouldn't mean the university was better or worse

(if we canned our brewing courses it'd improve that stat, because even though literally every brewer that wants a job in the industry gets it, loads of them go self employed and set up their own brewery or distillery and that doesn't count. It's one of our top 3 courses and universally respected and envied, but it hurts our stats in a stupid way)

Our staff-per-student rate is good because quite a lot of our subjects are tutor-intensive, but again that's not better or worse, it's just because of our course focus. But it makes us look good. But if your details aren't right in the HR system you don't count (I forgot to list my degree when I set myself up, so I didn't used to count as a qualified member of staff, and that hurt the stats... But I don't teach! So it makes **** all real difference anyway. If one of our cleaners has a degree (in english lit probably, or fashion marketing) it improves that stat- if we hire an extra 10 security guards with no degree it hurts it. And oh do we spend a lot of time thinking about this sort of bullshit, like everyone else)

Essentially every metric is broken in some exciting way so all you can really do is throw them all in a bucket and stir them and assume that it averages out

Aside; this isn't really my field so there's probably some groteque oversimplifications in there, we just use the end numbers.

[quote=Northwind ]If one of our cleaners has a degree (in english lit probably, or fashion marketing)

😈

OPINIONS BELONG TO THE INDIVIDUAL AND ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF TOP SECRET UNIVERSITY 😆

Joking aside though, immediate earnings and year 1 salaries just aren't a good gauge of course quality. It's relevant, and more so with some than others- you're daft if you do an accountancy degree from an institution that's not showing good progression- but it's only partly related to quality. And lots of courses are building blocks- so fashion marketing, that I mentioned there, you're probably then doing internships or going it alone or generally working up in the industry and paying your dues, and hopefully everyone who goes onto the course knows it's a tough ride. Divinity's a classic, who thinks you can judge the value of a divinity course by your graduate earnings? League tables, basically, and nobody else.

People are understandably money-focused but it's a sad way to judge educational value.

OPINIONS BELONG TO THE INDIVIDUAL AND ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF [b]TOP SECRET UNIVERSITY[/b]

There should be more means tested grants

How [b]old[/b] are you !?! 🙂

Rudd has hired Linton Crosby too help her become leader and presumably improve her majority of 3 people and a duck?

Seems bonkers, who's gonna back a leader with a tiny majority?

Or does she just think there's a GE coming very soon and wants to be prepared and ready for leadership of the opposition.

Either way it's not a vote in Mays ability!

University of California at Los Angeles and where ... University of Central Lancashire, hardly comparable.

as zokes and jonv note - woosh!
😆

Surprised to hear on R4 this morning The Maybot, being interviewed by Nick Robinson, sound energetic, engaged and spontaneous. Confident, even. Something has happened, I think, in the original "House Of Cards" sense.

If I were her, I would have my consiglieri call Bojo this morning with "We thank you for your service, but...". Then watch him have to go to the conference podium this afternoon and make his, by then irrelevant, little speech.

Just listened to the Maybot interviewed on radio 4

It must have been a different interview to the one you heard Wopster

Dear God! She's awful!

She's just doing exactly what she did during the election campaign. Just endlessly repeating the same pre-prepared soundbites. She seems pathologically incapable of doing anything else. She has all the warmth, humour and empathy of a fridge-freezer.

And trying to put a positive spin on Boris's clear challenge to her leadership as "not surrounding herself with yes-men"?

Please? You daren't sack him. He'd love her too so that he can become some kind of Brexit Martyr and Figurehead. Everyone knows this.

She seems to be in denial about pretty much everything going on around her

Well she's promised graduates an extra 30 quid a month, so that's the next election sorted.

I too heard the interview. She sounded like someone had told her to be less robotic, more passionate and energetic, and was trying to live up to that with predictable consequences of just sounding false. (I did actually laugh at one point where she stuttered over a comment (I'd never laugh at a stutter, by the way) but it had the effect of sounding like Max Headroom glitching, and given past allegations made me even consider for a moment if she was some sort of artificial terminator-like being)

As for the 'I don't want to be surrounded by Yes men' bit. Absolutely Mrs May, i applaud you for that. Surround yourself by the best and brightest and behind the closed doors of No 10 and the cabinet rooms, thrash it out including with those that tell you what you don't want to hear. And then when you decide on the direction, once outside that room then expect everyone to align behind what was agreed.

If they can't do that, then they have no place in your cabinet - they should either be honorable and admit that differences can't be bridged and hence they can't work with you and resign, or if they then come out and immediately contradict what was agreed, you should fire them immediately and publicly. What's it to be? Or are you scared it'll be the end of you and as a result are quite rightly seen as someone who can't run a cabinet of your own selection of people from within your own party, let alone a country.

I did actually laugh at one point where she stuttered over a comment

You could tell she just has an automated bank of pre-chosen soundbites that she'd memorised, and she was temporarily hunting for which button she had to press for the one that was to be repeated

I half expected her to say "unexpected item in the bagging area". That's how 'spontaneous' she sounded

I half expected her to say "unexpected item in the bagging area".

🙂

She's just doing exactly what she did during the election campaign. Just endlessly repeating the same pre-prepared soundbites.

The main thing for me is we have a lame duck PM and still no Tory wants to take the kill shot....that is how bad things are going to get/what the tories think Brexit will be like and yet still they sail onward to whatever it is they will deliver.

31 pages? the answer is yes.

anyway dont blame the puppet

its the puppet master that pulls the strings, the puppets just dance. 😉

Just been listening to 5live. There's a group of young conservatives on there talking about how they find it difficult to 'come out' on social media 🙂

Interestingly they too are parroting the same tired soundbites of their pathetically useless boss. New generation? It's illustrative that the only person in the tory party with anything different to say is Jacob Rees-Mogg.

Also very interesting on the Today interview when Nick Robinson said the tories are new looking like 'Labour Lite'. That's quite a turnaround, and the final confirmation to me that they are f*****. Thinking back to the run-up to '97, the main thing that changed was that Labour drove the agenda. Back then all debate and discussion was predicated on what labour were doing/saying and the the same is happening now.

I heard the interview binners heard. Business as usual, vacous statments delivered with the same air of nervousness I imagine was displayed when she was making excuses for why she was running through a field of wheat.

and still no Tory wants to take the kill shot.

That's because Tory MP's now fall into two distinct categories

1) The ones who know full well that Brexit is going to be an absolute ****ing car crash, and are keeping their heads down, letting the lunatics run amock, and seeing what remains of the smoking wreckage afterwards. Even Mogg is one of these. He doesn't want anything to do with a hands-on roll in this shambles. He's not stupid!

2) The totally unhinged, delusional Brexiteer lunatics who see themselves in some type of Churchillian roll (fuelled by their own gargantuan ego's) leading a grateful nation into the sunny independent uplands and a buccaneering Empire 2.0. So basically Boris and David Davis then?

If politics ever gets back to something approaching [i]normal[/i] in this country, we won’t recognise it.

Agreed Binners

anything different to say is Jacob Rees-Mogg.

and are keeping their heads down, letting the lunatics run amock, and seeing what remains of the smoking wreckage afterwards.

It's the financial crash all over again. Back in 2010 I never really thought that labour wanted to be in power as they knew what a cluster**** it was. Same thing now but with brexit. If labour are clever, on the day they enter govt they'll start the 'cleaning up the tories brexit mess' mantra and it'll keep them in power for at least 2 terms.

By different you mean messages from the 30's and possibly the 1830's.

That's my point. The main voice (if you ignore Boris) who is willing to speak against the party line, instead of coming up with anything new, like what to do about automation etc, can only hark back to victorian times.

So basically Boris and David Davis then?

I actually think Boris started off just wanting to be PM, and being a shameless opportunist just seeing Brexit as his opportunity. But his limitless narcissism, fuelled by the [s]bitter old backwards-gazing racists[/s] Tory party faithful's adulation has led to him now believing his own hype

Just been listening to 5live. There's a group of young conservatives on there talking about how they find it difficult to 'come out' on social media

How old are you !?!

[s]Kim jung un[/s] Ruth Davidson doesn't want the job, no siree.... 8)

In other news, party membership has reportedly slumped to 100,000 (compared to membership of the opposition party, which stands at 570,000 and climbing), there's a dearth of younger members joining and an endless parade of tired ideologies while the party awaits the reincarnation of a divisive reformer from the 1980s.

Anyone else think that a schism may be on the horizon?

[quote=theotherjonv ]Or are you scared it'll be the end of you and as a result are quite rightly seen as someone who can't run a cabinet of your own selection of people from within your own party, let alone a country.

I don't think I'd trust her to run a bath.

The strange thing looking back is that she did seem like the obvious choice for the job, and a safe pair of hands - admittedly that was in comparison to the other candidates, does anybody think any of the other options in the leadership election would have done a better job (I'm still feeling kind of glad it's just her brand of incompetence rather than an ideologue who'd **** things up)? I suppose apart from her failure to achieve things she did seem vaguely competent in her previous roles - promoted a couple of levels above where she is competent?

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge ]Ruth Davidson doesn't want the job, no siree....

she's clever enough to look like the only grown up in the room (admittedly that's not terribly hard), whilst having the perfect excuse for having no interest in the job (not now...)

PJM1974 - Member
In other news, party membership has reportedly slumped to 100,000 (compared to membership of the opposition party, which stands at 570,000 and climbing), there's a dearth of younger members joining and an endless parade of tired ideologies while the party awaits the reincarnation of a divisive reformer from the 1980s.

Anyone else think that a schism may be on the horizon?

average age of party member is now 67!?

3 things youth dislike - housing crisis, tuition fees, Brexit

all of those 'owned' by Tories, all their wounds are self-inflicted

In other news, party membership has reportedly slumped to 100,000

They won't actually publish any figures and haven't done so since 2013, but some estimates are now as low as 60,000, as they are literally dying off, and the average age is around 70

And these people will be (exclusively) selecting the next PM. No wonder Boris is in full on 'Rule Brittania' mode.
It's no bloody wonder the youth vote is lined up behind Jeremy Corbyn. The young Tories on five live earlier just sounded like a bunch of freaks

[img] [/img]

average age of party member is now 67!?

3 things youth dislike - housing crisis, tuition fees, Brexit

all of those 'owned' by Tories, all their wounds are self-inflicted

Abso-bloody-lutely.

Yet again, a Tory in-fight between [s]130,000[/s], [s]110,000[/s], 100,000 members has grave constitutional and economic repercussions for the country.

In less enlightened times, there would be senior party members answering to some serious charges in court.

she did seem vaguely competent in her previous roles

are you sure....... 😯

By that I mean not completely incompetent.

So are we putting bets on what our very own low-rent Trump will have to say this afternoon?

Would you bet against him wandering up to the podium literally wrapped in a Union Jack, accompanied by Land of Hope and Glory?

While the Maybot looks on with that Gordon Brown-esque rictus grin she's presently being forced to wear by her media trainers?

Red lines, stick it up them, strong, new opportunities (for Borris)

does anybody think any of the other options in the leadership election would have done a better job

Granted there is dearth of choice in her party - is it just me or is there a general dearth of talent in politics at this minute? there used to be people of principle from your ken clarkes to your Tam Dalyell- where are they now.
I think only the M for anachronisms merits a mention for actually having policies [ whether popular or not] so at least you know what you are voting for they seem to be so bland and careerist these days - all sides.

she did seem vaguely competent in her previous roles

I disagree stringly, the warning signs were there

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/18/what-does-theresa-mays-record-as-home-secretary-tell-us
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/theresa-mays-record-home-secretary-isnt-reassuring/
https://reaction.life/theresa-may-failed-home-secretary-bad-choice-pm/
http://commentcentral.co.uk/theresa-may-a-failed-pm-and-a-failed-home-secretary/

Everythings relative, innit?

Not difficult to look like the least-worst-option at the moment, given the competition.

I agree with JY 😯 that politics has never looked so threadbare. Right now I can't see a single person from either party who looks up to the job.

But I firmly believe that Boris Johnson is presently the most dangerous man in the UK. And if he's elected leader (and if there's a leadership election tomorrow, those senile xenophobic headcases would more than likely do it) then his idea of Brexit could usher in a full-scale economic catastrophe from which this country might never recover

His theme for this afternoons speech is 'Let The Lion Roar'

FFS!!! I'm sure the Daily Mail will love it! While the rest of us watch through our fingers, cringing in national embaressment

Edit: Apparently Theresa won't be in the hall to witness it. I can't say I blame her. Rather than sack him - which he clearly wants - I'm sure she's looking at ways she can have him killed

[quote=binners ]Right now I can't see a single person from either party who looks up to the job.

Ruth?

Ruth?

[img] [/img]

I disagree stringly, the warning signs were there

An email I received last week from the lib Dems.

When I became your leader just over 90 days ago, one of the goals I set was for us to overtake the Conservatives in membership.

Todaywe may have just done exactly that.

The Conservatives are notoriously secretive about their membership, but it's been reported that it's dropped to "around 100,000".

That means we have either already surpassed the Conservatives' membership, or we are about to. The enormity of this cannot be underestimated. I don't know about you, but I'd like to make sure there is no doubt.

Theresa May’s Tories are in turmoil. And their former members many of whom are pro Europeans like us need a new home.

Let's make the Liberal Democrats the second largest British political party. And then from anything is possible...

Here's how you can help:

1. One of the best ways to recruit a new member is to ask a friend who shares our values to join us. Will you ask your friends to join today

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter Share in other ways

2. The membership team tells me it costs £4 to recruit a member online. Will you donate and help us pay for Facebook adverts to recruit more members?

Donate £5 & Recruit 1 member Donate £20 & Recruit 4 members Donate £50 & Recruit 10 members

3. And if you haven’t already, please share the story of why you joined the party, so we can use your story to recruit more members:

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Thank you David, let's make sure there's absolutely no doubt that we've overtaken the Conservatives in membership.

Vince

Vince Cable

aracer - Member

I suppose apart from her failure to achieve things she did seem vaguely competent in her previous roles

I think, basically, anyone that had first hand experience of the home office during her tenure disagreed. But she was very good at dodging blame. There was a bizarre recurring theme- she'd tell a department to do something, they'd do it, it'd go incredibly badly, and then she'd "step in" and "take it under her personal control". When it came to her mistakes, she was invisible- her nickname was the Submarine. So she did manage to give a veneer of competence I suppose but you wouldn't ask her to water your plants.

She's the Fox suspension of politics- every time she failed she made it a selling point. Tough on immigration! Immigration goes up. Look everyone, immigration went up, I need to be tougher!

And she's still trying to do it, it's just that it stopped working. That's why they had literally the same promise on immigration in the last 2 manifestos, and kept insisting they were the party to deliver it despite having not done it the last time they promised. I mean, we were glad she'd totally failed to deliver that promise, it'd have been a disaster but that's by the by.