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wrecker - MemberThose are sovereign lands.
Not in favour of giving ISIS land myself, I don't think it'd satisfy them, I reckon it'd just be a base of operations. But it's a wee bit late to be getting precious about sovereignty, considering all the world powers sticking their oar in. "No, we must respect Syria's sovereignty! While bombing it with drones!"
Good for them!
We're trying.....
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Interesting article
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?_r=1
kimbers - MemberInteresting article
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?_r=1
Yep. There was another article from a year ago somewhere where a former chief of defence at the MOD stated a similar opinion re ISIS, Syria and military action and how, in his opinion bombing and further military campaigns were little more than short term measures as the flow of money and Wahhabism from Saudi and Qatar was the root cause of the problem (along with Israel and western imperialism of course).
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/21/opinion/saudi-arabia-an-isis-that-has-made-it.html?_r=1
Nails it.
The real debate in the country we should be having is how much are we willing to pay for petrol and how many jobs are we willing to lose in the arms and associated industries to cut off all ties with Saudi Arabia and call for international sanctions against them/their oil industry?
And if faced with being worse off and losing thousands of jobs if they were being honest most people will probably say 'er actually I think we'll just put up with the odd terrorist attack that mostly doesn't affect me thanks'. The whole media discourse on this at the moment is a total charade.
Given how many articles I've read describing how we are currently awash with oil, surely there would be no better time.
The trade relationship with Saudi works both ways, however.
We buy their oil, they buy our defense systems.
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The real debate in the country we should be having is how much are we willing to pay for petrol and how many jobs are we willing to lose in the arms and associated industries to cut off all ties with Saudi Arabia and call for international sanctions against them/their oil industry?
The trade relationship with Saudi works both ways, however.
We buy their oil, they buy our defense systems.
The British arms industry is a huge subsidy junkie. You might as well have everyone in the sector digging ditches and filling them in again - with the added advantage that our ditch digging doesn't facilitate foreign wars.
Equally, this policy of propping up awful authoritarian governments so we are guaranteed cheap oil seems to be very expensive: not just through the billion dollar wars we keep saving up for ourselves, but also through the economic activity that isn't happening because of the inequitable distribution of wealth and terrorism/security risk.
And none of that is even talking about whether it's...you know...ethical...
Given how many articles I've read describing how we are currently awash with oil, surely there would be no better time.
...until the OPEC meeting!!!
The Belgians are edgy
o Junky, more seriously, what do you think should/could be done? Stop the drones and hope it all goes away? Ground forces (another invasion)? Accept that they are going to bomb cities, and take ground from sovereign states?
I don't see many other options as we know that there is no negotiation here. Considering the stated aims of Daesh, there isn't even a basis to start from.
There's always the MOSSAD option. Create a list of people who we don't like, and kill every single last one of them at any point over the next 20 years - quietly without using bombs. Make the ones who aren't willing to be suicide bombers, wonder if they're going to die whilst taking a shit - and just to be extra nice - keep the bar relatively low for entry to the list (eg enablers of terrorists).
Morality in these kinds of wars (ideological with no room for dialogue) is for privileged white people.
Then we cut off the ISIL oil lines, even if it includes civilian casualties and then we make friends with the Iranians and have Shia Persians running Syria, Iraq and Iran. Persians of the Shia variety tend to be less explodey.
Seeing people being abused and living in abject squalor makes you think a bit.
+1 all the serving people I know utterly loathe Britain First.
I noticed The Premier League has been pushing the commemoration angle to the extreme...I wonder if this is a case of the lady doth protest too much, given how much Saudi money is in the game.
There's always the MOSSAD option. Create a list of people who we don't like, and kill every single last one of them at any point over the next 20 years - quietly without using bombs. Make the ones who aren't willing to be suicide bombers, wonder if they're going to die whilst taking a shit - and just to be extra nice - keep the bar relatively low for entry to the list (eg enablers of terrorists).
IS wants to hasten the apocalypse. Do you think "we might kill you at some point" is going to be very frightening for them?
If it's true, it's horrendous, and they want to put their house in order sharpish. But drones operate to the same RoE as manned aircraft IME, so the only grounds for objecting to them (assuming you don't object to a manned strike) is that they are more [u]likely[/u] to be there when the target presents and so carry out a successful attack, because of the reduced political risk (no pilot to be captured).
I can't speak for the Americans and wouldn't speculate, but I find it VERY difficult to imagine a culture like that is present in UK units.
Curious as to what French, American and Russian planes were attacking I had a look around the various news sites and found the Americans had hit over a hundred oil trucks and the Russians about 500. I still can't find what the French consider legitimate military targets. RT is showing footage of carpet bombing, really accurate that. 🙁
Media blackout requested in Belgium, major operation underway.
Quite extraordinary a major European capital has closed schools and the metro system for a period of days due to the threat of an attack
@Edukator war isn't all about laser and GPS guided weapons. We are too use to seeing the video pictures and think it's all like that. Likewise for the use of Drones which are no different in targeting than jet fighters. Some have now been fitted with technology which fakes mobile phone towers getting militants phones to connect to it in order to enhance ability to trace specific targets.
@grum yes indeed there are others responsible for acts of terror and there is an increasing rebellion against the Russian annexation of Crimea, it's the general truth in the statement though which makes it a "tag line" IMHO
Curious as to what French, American and Russian planes were attacking I had a look around the various news sites and found the Americans had hit over a hundred oil trucks and the Russians about 500. I still can't find what the French consider legitimate military targets. RT is showing footage of carpet bombing, really accurate that.
I believe the Russians and Americans are targeting Daesh's oil transportation system, the French I understand are going after command positions, although how accurate their knowledge is is anyone's guess, however, there are supposed to be people on the ground who are, shall we say, not entirely sympathetic to the Daesh cause, who are feeding detailed info via special forces, which is how they nailed Jihadi John.
Who really knows.
Wouldn't like to be one of those lorry drivers. I'm guessing if you don't drive oils around you don't get paid and your family starve, or perhaps ISIS kill your family.
I'd like to think when they took over ISIS replaced all lorry drivers with fanatics who deserve to die, but I doubt it.
I'm not saying the lorries shouldn't be bomber, just that its a shame for the drivers.
Curious as to what French, American and Russian planes were attacking I had a look around the various news sites and found the Americans had hit over a hundred oil trucks and the Russians about 500. I still can't find what the French consider legitimate military targets. RT is showing footage of carpet bombing, really accurate that.
In regards to carpet bombing, yeah Russians do things the old fashioned way....see Grozny.....they don't care about collateral damadge.
So America has this morning launched a 3-4 month global Alert which basically amounts to "don't do stuff" in its generic-ism.
Useful. 😐
I see the Turks are helping ISIS further by shooting down the planes bombing them (tongue in cheek, but....)
Sting re-opened the Balaclan tonight a year on from the attack. RIP all those murdered and may the survivors be able move forward.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37962584
Just a shame that the place was attacked during a rock concert then reopened by that gobshite
then reopened by that gobshite
Not a huge fan myself, but given the occasion being commemorated, don't you think we can all aim a little higher in this world than just typing facile abuse?
**** it, it's open and allowing people to see their favourite artists. The best '**** you' to those who carried out the attack.
Not a huge fan myself, but given the occasion being commemorated, don't you think we can all aim a little higher in this world than just typing facile abuse?
Tbh, my first reaction was ye Gods, have the poor bastards not suffered enough? 😉
Apparently Sting was way down the list but none of the artists first approached would do it - was on the BBC yesterday though didn't mention would other artists were.
I'm with Metalheart. Sting!
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Not a huge fan myself, but given the occasion being commemorated, don't you think we can all aim a little higher in this world than just typing facile abuse?
You're right, now some time has passed i'd like to change my original comment.... He's a **** not a gobshite
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Not his finest hour...
Supposedly none of the French acts approached wanted to be associated with the re-opening of the actual venue due to negative connotations 😯
Eagles of Death Metal where excluded from the building as the lead singer has repeated a number if times he thinks it was an inside job with 6 Muslim security staff deliberately failing to turn up for work. Nutter.
You make it sound like he is still going on about it now. Nuts the idea may well have been, but:
[url= http://www.nme.com/news/music/eagles-of-death-metal-10-1205260 ]He publicly apologised for it 8 months ago. [/url]