Interested to know from some of the no touching people do you openly encourage your young children to refrain from being touchy feely with the piers at school.
We are the touching type (and we're non-coastal 😉 ) so our approach has been to encourage understanding of consent and have the [url= https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/underwear-rule/ ]PANTS talk[/url].
Our kids are very free with hugs and caring strokes for peers and others. I like that.
IMHO he appears to have issues- it might just be a shit sense of humour
Everyone has issues Junky. I’ve been very open about mine to the point of ridicule.
As I’ve got older I’ve come to the realisation that the main point in life, the pathway through which the most meaning and value is derived, is having children and and being a good parent.
All this other stuff we bicker about and debate (and which leads to a lot of mudslingjng and back biting) is just stuff we make up for our entertainment. Ultimately being a good parent is all that really matters. When I’m tucking my boys up and reading them a story and they put their arms around me and tell me they love me, that’s when the whole point of life and all it’s injustices and fubars cease to relevant and the pain goes away.
If you have kids Junky you’ll understand that. If you don’t then You won’t. That’s why I asked.
chip - Member
They always leak, just get a catheter in.
It won't leak if you stop fiddling with it.
chip - MemberThey always leak, just get a catheter in.
They don't leak if you measure 'em properly and once fitted give it a really good squeeze 😉
alpin: Jesus that's rough. Was she being malicious or just embarrassed/defensive?
It's something that gives me a moments ponder when people talk about "always believing the victims".
What they really mean (I hope) is "always take allegations seriously" - though in the age of trial by (social) media, the burden of proof does seem to be slipping.
Related: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/does-an-allegation-equate-to-guilt
True TJ, true.
Nice air gap and don't get kinky with your hose.
😀
😉
I must have a magic penis, it changes in stature like the wind, it can go from respectable to pitiful and back again. 😀
Interested to know from some of the no touching people do you openly encourage your young children to refrain from being touchy feely with the piers at school. Or does the no touching rule come in at puberty or just restrict it to the work place.
Just in work. Outside of work I’m quite a huggy, tactile person.
needs my delicate touch chips 😉
Responding to the OP's original post, I don't think I have ever put my hand on anybody at work. Personally, I find people who put their hand on the back or arms of subordinates in particular are doing so as a way of reinforcing their superiority. We had a CEO who would do it whilst partly congratulating you on good work but more obviously asking for a lot more work to silly deadlines. He was a ****.
As for offering a massage, I would never 'go there' - it really isn't worth the aggravation even if you are a qualified masseur in your spare time and know it would help.
In a work context I'd much rather be rewarded for going over and above with some more pay or some time off in lieu rather than a patronising touch on the forearm, thank you very much.
It's a strange world were are in at the moment, where the most powerful man in the world was elected despite the fact he can boast of grabbing woman inappropriately, but the average man has to seriously think about putting an arm round a work colleague even he has know her years if she was upset.
On the flip side though, as a glass collector in a bar as a youth i was fondled and man-handled more times than i can remember, when i wore an army uniform for some reason many ladies felt that was a sign to say i'd like to just be grabbed however they wanted and even on my bike i've had a lady of more mature years lean out of her car window to stroke my thigh and make a few comments, as a man you are expected to laugh these things off (and i did), but it does make you think why is that OK?
"What is wrong with women these days ?
What men should do is completely ignore them and see how long it is before they start questioning themselves as to what is wrong / have I suddenly become unattractive"
Oh that already happens, on Friday night I found myself in our buildings bar, where two women, one a red head who looked liked Laura Prepon when she had red hair - and a brunette, got pretty drunk....and then yanked my arm and had me dance with them. Didn't ask for it and didn't want it.
Because:
A) Married (morals, loyalty etc) and rumour travels fast in our building even if your intentions are innocent.
B) They were drunk and I am not going down on charges of being a pervert.
So now I'm gay apparently, and now I'm having to fend off the questions of the resident dandys. I jest, but I'm pretty irritated by the whole thing, if I'd yanked a woman on to the dance floor like that I'd have been dragged back to my room by the concierge.
Also, welcome back to the 1920s - the hairstyles back, the taste in booze is back, the clothes are back and soon the chaperones will be as well!
Tom while I wrote the comment you quoted above ..you missed off the bit of my original post right at the end ..which said .." A quote "
There was a very good reason for that as the " quote " was not from myself but the person I was discussing this thread with at the time ...my wife.
@gt
Yes I have kids yes they are the most important thing but I am not sure what the point is in stating that ,its a given for everyone , and absolutely irrelevant to this debate or my views on this subject
Like you I decided to not pass on the harm that was done to me and it stopped with me. I carried* the burden of my childhood and I dont repeat it with my kids. Still not relevant to this discussion.
* glad I put the past tense there[ not through effort] but it will never be entirely true
I wasn't taking issue with your quote.
I was talking to a very old friend of mine from 6th form, she's 30 now - attractive but single. She managed to spend the conversation complaining about men like Weinstein, but then complained about the man she was seeing because he's too soft, sensitive and not direct enough. I tried to get her to reconcile her opinions of Weinstein and the current man she was seeing, but her retort was "Where have all the decent men gone, the ones that aren't soft but aren't Weinsteins".
I gave up at that point. I'd add that she is a fan of 50 Shades of Grey as well.
Whatever the positive outcomes from ‘Girl Power’, I will need a lot of convincing that this was not just a cynical marketing approach to get young girls to buy pop CD’s.
Tom_W1987 - Member
I wasn't taking issue with your quote.I was talking to a very old friend of mine from 6th form, she's 30 now - attractive but single. She managed to spend the conversation complaining about men like Weinstein, but then complained about the man she was seeing because he's too soft, sensitive and not direct enough. I tried to get her to reconcile her opinions of Weinstein and the current man she was seeing, but her retort was "Where have all the decent men gone, the ones that aren't soft but aren't Weinsteins".
I gave up at that point. I'd add that she is a fan of 50 Shades of Grey as well.
POSTED 6 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
That's not really about sex, though. That's more to do with control. She sounds like a high maintenance nightmare who will end up being single, having brief but unsatisfactory/bad relationships and spending the gaps in between wondering why..... 🙄
Tom ..I got that you weren't taking issue with the quote .
Stating that my missus said that was to align my thinking to yours and also to show that not all women are so delicate as to cry wolf at the slightest physical interaction ..her way of saying from a woman's point of view that they need to grow a pair
slightest physical interaction ..her way of saying from a woman's point of view that they need to grow a pair
That's what I said, got told off for it.
Yes I have kids yes they are the most important thing but I am not sure what the point is in stating that ,its a given for everyone , and absolutely irrelevant to this debate or my views on this subject
It's something we can both agree on. It's something that we can observe in each other and conclude that that person is a good person. It's something that can cut through the whole gender political BS that defines quite a bit (but definitely not all or even the majority) of the issue we are discussing.
This and the other related threads have been, at times, truly vile places with lots of things said that are personal attacks (and mine to Scotroutes was done in direct response to just such an attack).
So what's the relevance? It's the thing that stops the nastiness and brings us back to our senses.
Love you buddy. Whatever else gets said, I know you must be a good person.
It's the new rules - you have to be wearing a skirt to get away with that sort of comment.giantalkali
That's what I said, got told off for it.
It's the new rules - you have to be wearing a skirt to get away with that sort of comment
True the Scots get away with all kinds of anti-English comments but any hint of the other way round and down comes the hammer inappropriately
says the man who used to say sweaty scots all the time
You have become a parodoy account these days
I tried to get her to reconcile her opinions of Weinstein and the current man she was seeing
What is there to reconcile?
Weinstein is not "direct". He's accused of being a rapist.
What is there to reconcile?
I suspect he meant the desire for a man to be ‘direct’ (for example asking for a massage) versus the sense of grievance and harassment experienced when a man you have no interest in does this. I think you can be direct but still polite (they aren’t mutually exclusive terms), and of course, being direct to a stranger is entirely different to being direct with someone on say a second, third or subsequent date.
The most challenge situation I ever found myself in was a woman who was into being slapped about. That was right out of my comfort zone and I thought she was joking when she asked me to do it right at the critical moment. It was when she slapped me in frustration and I refused that I knew things were pretty serious.
I've got say I'm enjoying watching and hearing men getting confused, and questioning their assumptions over the last few weeks. 😆
"what? You mean it's not ok to randomly touch someone even if I don't know them?"
If you're on a date, it's probs ok to bit touchy feely and flirty, if it's in an office, probs not, Simply really. I don't mind being touched by people when we're more or less equal, there's a bloke on a make up stand in a shop I go to regularly and he's the most touchy person in the world, but neither of us has "power" so it's not really a problem. If my boss did the same it would be super-creepy.
True the Scots get away with all kinds of anti-English comments but any hint of the other way round and down comes the hammer inappropriately
Like a dog with a bone 😆
Enjoy it whilst it lasts. Once sexual harassment has been sorted we'll be moving on to verbal harassment. All those nagging women out there are in for a shock.I've got say I'm enjoying watching and hearing men getting confused, and questioning their assumptions over the last few weeks.
emsz - MemberI've got say I'm enjoying watching and hearing men getting confused, and questioning their assumptions over the last few weeks.
I agree. Its been entertaining watching them try to explain stuff away that is inexcusable. Its nice to see them running scared
I suspect he meant the desire for a man to be ‘direct’ (for example asking for a massage) versus the sense of grievance and harassment experienced when a man you have no interest in does this. I think you can be direct but still polite (they aren’t mutually exclusive terms), and of course, being direct to a stranger is entirely different to being direct with someone on say a second, third or subsequent date.
The comment was about an alleged rapist and serial abuser vs a partner who was "over sensitive", and suggesting that there was a need to "reconcile" different opinions on these very different cases. Again, what is there to reconcile?
"what? You mean it's not ok to randomly touch someone even if I don't know them?"
We're not talking about walking up to a person and touching them in an unwanted sexual manner though emsz. That's obviously bang out of order. I think we all understand that.
We're talking about where the line is.
Is workmate massage okay as per the OP? (My wife thinks so) Is reassuring a distressed colleague okay? (many said yes) Is being alone with a colleague at a cafe/pub okay? (hh45 says no) Is shaking hands okay? (chewkw says no)
Soon we will all need to wear personalised t-shirts with checkboxes for what is and isn't ok.
some one earlier in the thread said behave around women like you would behave around other men.
that's pretty much it really.
chewkw's weird though 😆
some one earlier in the thread said behave around women like you would behave around other men.
A good rule. But I have no problem touching male colleagues if the situation fits. Or being alone in a pub with them.
And TJs actions in the OP would have been unlikely to cause any issue with a male colleague.
Soon we will all need to wear personalised t-shirts with checkboxes for what is and isn't ok.
I liked the recent episode of The Orville where everyone wears approval badges that show the number of Like/Dislike votes they had.
A nice commentary on trial by social media.
Emsz - I wish that was true, but not a chance especially if you work for a US firm. I have seen two bosses fined (big £££) and one lady win a multi $m payout in a trumped up case, so I would never offer that advice to a male work colleague.
Given that law is based in how your actions are perceived there is no room for error. Never, ever touch a female employee. Just don't and be very, very careful with what you say, especially when guving complements. Simply not worth the risk.
Again, what is there to reconcile?
The desire for a dominant alpha male and the behaviour usually associated with it. It's really not hard to grasp.
I touched my female employees twice most days, cheek to cheek. Find ladies touching my arm or thigh if I'm paying less tha 100% attention to what they're saying (though I definitely wouldn't touch their thigh however distracted they seemed). I got a friendly bear hug on parting from a man I'd only met a day before last week (British and Irish nationality, entertainment business).
There are cultural normes wherever you go; corporate cultures, business sector cultures, national and regional cultures, religious cultures. Observe what the normes are, learn what the limits are, stick well within them and you'll do fine. If you have to ask yourself "should I? Because others don't", the answer is probably "better not".
The world is still sexist, some sexist things are still acceptable in some places, law even if you go to some countries. Do any of the males on here barge through doors in front of women? When serving food or drink to colleagues, who do you serve first? Would you comment if a male colleague/employee turned up in a tailleur, skirt and high heels?
Getting it right is a social skill that you learn and have to constantly revise. Deviate from the norme at your peril.
Edit: and when you get in a car with a member of the opposite sex, who drives? Next time you drive anywhere observe who is in the driver's seat of on-coming cars if there are a male and female in the front seats. Edit two: now make the same obervation after 23:00 on a Saturday night.
I don't hold doors open for women. Working in a female dominated world I would never get thru a door if I did.
There are cultural normes wherever you go; corporate cultures, business sector cultures, national and regional cultures, religious cultures. Observe what the normes are, learn what the limits are, stick well within them and you'll do fine.
I was in Sweden on business 2 weeks ago and had lots of hugs from colleagues old and new, male and female. I like hugs and was happy with it, but a couple of people back home in the UK said it sounded awful.
But do you go through doors before your wife, TJ?
the car owner. I dont routinely take the keys of them because they have no penis.and when you get in a car with a member of the opposite sex, who drives
So if your boss repeatedly touched your knee in meetings, called you babe in the office, casually remarked as you left the pub at the same time 'do you think we'll cause some gossip, what action would you take?
I know someone this has happened to recently and they've shrugged it off without thinking much of it.
Edukator - Reformed TrollBut do you go through doors before your wife, TJ?
Yes - if I reach the door first. I really am a true believe in equality and do my very best to treat people as people not men and women. Mrs TJ would think I had gone bonkers if I opened doors for her
If I'm walking with someone and we get to a door I hold it open for them. Gender is irrelevant. It's just good manners.
Edit: plus if it's the door to the pub, it means they'll be first at the bar and have to get the first round in.
