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Part of my usual gravel route runs through an old estate, and I've ridden it many many times. I've never seen anyone else on it other than a few farmers and service vehicles.
Today the gamekeeper stops me and tells me that I can't cycle through the estate until 1st Feb due to apparently it causing too much disturbance during the shooting season or something. Now the fact that his quad bike would obviously cause far more disturbance than my bike seemed to escape him, but other than that what's the laws on this? Is he trying it on, or is the law on his side?
I'm not planning to cycle through when shoots are on (for my own safety more than anything else), however if I'm legally allowed to cycle there at other time then I will.
Nope.
He can ask you to avoid a specific route if shooting is actually taking place at that time.
If he is asking for a longer closure, ask him to show you the relevant Section 11 order. If he can't, tell him to jog on.
I think only when shooting is actually taking place. I cannot find the guidance now
As you were.
Tell him to call the cops if he tries it again.
As you say, it's remarkable how disturbing a bike is in comparison to quads, guns, Landrovers, forwarders, etc.
Cheers lads. I knew scotroutes would pop up with some sound advice. You've confirmed my thinking.
Let's hope he doesn't have a shotgun eh!😁
If he appears next time on quad but approaches with shotgun. He could and should lose his licence assuming you feel threatened.
Official guidance from the Outdoor Access Code. https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/practical-guide-all/field-sports/low-ground-shooting
You can help minimise disturbance by being alert to the possibility of shooting taking place in these areas during the autumn and winter and by taking account of advice on alternative routes. Avoid crossing land when shooting is taking place.
As Scotroutes says.
The big problem locally is signs stating,"no access - shooting in progress until April" or similar.
Not good practice - report to the local council access officer, and flag to the local access forum.
Is there any requirement for the landowner to flag that shooting is ‘live’? E.g you hear it’s quiet but only cos they’re finishing a glass of port & a cigar then resume blasting?
Edit: ok so landowner actively uses sign to block access. Was thinking of firing range in Pentlands that would have flags up during live fire
I've got the borders Access guys email if it's in the sooth
If he appears next time on quad but approaches with shotgun. He could and should lose his licence assuming you feel threatened.
Yes, because jeapordising someone's livelihood over an access issue is completely proportional.
I don't disagree that the gamekeeper is wrong however that is a dick move of the highest order.
If he appears next time on quad but approaches with shotgun. He could and should lose his licence assuming you feel threatened.
Unless he is actually threatening you (as opposed to you feeling threatened by the mere presence of the tools of his trade) that is a ridiculous over reaction. A quad bike and a shotgun are pretty much essential to a gamekeeper.
Anyone who approaches someone else while holding a gun automatically wins dickhead of the week award.
Anyone who approaches someone else while holding a gun automatically wins dickhead of the week award.
Eh? A gamekeeper, going about his work, on a shooting estate? In the unlikely event he was pointing it at someone yes. If he's carrying it safely, i.e. broken over his arm if it's a shotgun or slung on his shoulder if it's a rifle, what's the problem?
Also, what else is he supposed to do with it, leave it unattended?
@squirrelking exactly. That would of course be illegal and would result in revocation of his licence and thus loss of his job.
Just so we are clear there was no shot gun in sight!
I have no intention of going through during a shoot. But he said the whole area was off limits between now and end of shooting season regardless of whether a shoot was on. There wasn't one today for example. Basically I got the impression he thought I may disturb the nesting birds...even though I'm keeping to the farm road that runs through it. Which of course is utter nonsense given vehicles pass through there every day
Definitely worth contacting your local Council Access Officer.
Nesting birds...in early Winter?
Emporer penguins perhaps?
As above, nesting birds in December? I'd suggest just your presence was more his silly and very badly reasoned issue. The guy probably needs some polite education, cyclists are quiet, transient and stick to the track/trail, so in reality you'd be one of the least of his problems I'd argue.
Let's be honest, it's cos you were on a gravel bike.
I'd have shot you.
The gamekeeper maybe isn't that bothered but his boss, who pays his wages and owns the house he lives in and that comes and goes with his job, has maybe been having a moan at him about commoners roaming around on his land. It's also a pretty stressful time of year for gamekeepers when said boss wants to entertain all his rich and entitled chums and doesn't want any excuses for not having lots of birds to shoot.
I have no intention of going through during a shoot. But he said the whole area was off limits between now and end of shooting season regardless of whether a shoot was on.
A local access officer wouldn't take well to that.
We have a local estate here who have permanent signs up that have a space for dates to be marker penned in. Every year I have to object as they just put a 6 month date series on them...
And to those who think having a gun as a gamekeeper/farmer while out is threatening or somehow odd, please get some perspective. It's a tool. Used almost daily by many.
It’s fine to hold a shotgun, either broken over the arm or in a case
If you approach cyclists with a gun apparently loaded and held in a shooting grasp with the barrel lowered you will be in a whole lot of poop
A troublesome farmer here in the NW found to his cost when he gave our group some grief
One of our number is a police inspector
Oops
I live on a shooting estate.
I see the game keeper tootling round quite frequently.
He’s never physically carrying a shotgun unless he’s actually out with a shoot. I’m pretty sure his little covered quad thing must have secure storage for his gun. Than said, he’s rarely on foot at all.
This is England, so RoW are well defined and limited, sadly, but if he approached me telling me to get off the land, whilst carrying a gun, I’d feel a bit uneasy. It’s an unspoken power thing. But he hasn’t, he seems fairly professional. A couple of hoo-rah Henrys on horseback told my other half that she shouldn’t be running on a bridle way once, but they were just politely ignored.
Can’t stand shooting as a sport, very elitist and a massive waste of open space in England, that could otherwise be enjoyed by all. I wish Scottish style access laws could work in the rest of the UK, the landowner here is VERY protective of access, signs everywhere. Such a waste.
What does a gamekeeper actually need with a gun on his/her every day duties then?. Shooting hen harriers perhaps?...
Tbf the only one I've had dealings with (and one of squirrelkings local) is alright, decent if a little possessive, but as said it's his livelihood.
Fine with me clearing trails, cutting away fallen trees etc, as long as they're not shooting where I'm doing it.
Soon as this barbaric ‘sport’ is banned the better, it has ruined our countryside. Sadly with the Tories in there’ll be no ban soon :0(
Can’t stand shooting as a sport, very elitist and a massive waste of open space in England, that could otherwise be enjoyed by all
Pretty much this. I'm against it on so many levels, so almost as a point of principle I'm in no way going to stop riding there because of that given its legal
Any ideas how to contact my local access officer? I'm based in Fife (kirkcaldy) and had a Google of fife website doesn't bring much up.
What does a gamekeeper actually need with a gun on his/her every day duties then?. Shooting hen harriers perhaps?…
My thoughts entirely, but the 1st thing I thought of was that maybe he didn't want the OP to come across any traps laid for raptors?
I'd take Scotroutes route. (is that the start of a tongue twister?)
That would be my suspicion Essel - what are they doing they want folk off the land? Many shooting estates break the law continually and blatently
Have a word with yourselves, the op never mentioned a gun. It's like readers of the Mail talking about immigrants.
Have a word with yourselves, the op never mentioned a gun. It’s like readers of the Mail talking about immigrants.
Eh?
Anyway, the Gamey wants to keep people away. There must be a reason for that & if there's no actual shooting going on then that makes me suspicious.
I'm suspicious of gamekeepers & estate landowners anyway, speshly up there & Dales/North Pennines.
Steven - I do not know which bit of Fife this is but released Sea eagles were illegally killed in fife. 63 eagles are known to have been illegally killed on shooting estates and that is just the eagles and the known cases.
Exactly my point, you've no idea who the keeper is or where the estate is but you've decided they must be up to no good. You mention 73 sea eagles being killed, how many of those were in Fife? Selectively pulling out facts to suit your argument, you could get a job writing for the mail. I'm not condoning raptor persecution and I believe large scale commercial shooting has no place in this day and age but I don't like seeing this kind of demonisation.
No - I have said they may well be up to no good and kicking people off the land without cause makes me suspicious. Steven - you really need to open your eyes to the criminality of the shooting estates. Its not demonisation if it is true. Look at the data on raptor persecution.
One we know of killed in fife out of 15 reintroduced.
Well said TJ. Raptor persecution is rife in Scotland & It's funny* how most go missing on grouse moors & not over mountainous areas.
*not.
Fife council have changed their website recently and it's harder to find what you need.
Generic email is outdooraccess@fife.gov.uk
Last time I contacted them Sarah Jonston was the access officer, She's based in Cupar.
You could try phoning 01592 583239 which is the last number I have for them
And how many grouse moors are there in sunny Fife? The one case of a sea eagle death in Fife I found had injuries consistent with a fight with a wind turbine.
Once again..when i spoke to him yesterday there was no gun anywhere to be seen!!! The only mention of a gun I made was that I jokingly said I hope he didn't have one! Even if he did, as long as he doesn't point it at me then no issue.. it's a tool of his job I assume.
Have a word with yourselves, the op never mentioned a gun. It’s like readers of the Mail talking about immigrants.
I was responding to other posts mentioning a gun, not the OP, but I'll be sure to ask your permission next time. Sorry.
And thanks for the contact details. Ill get in contract.
Steven - One sea eagle killed in a windfarm. another "disappeared" on a grouse moor. 3 proven incidents of raptor persecution in fife in 2018. Latest data.
Edit - 2012 - 2018