RE OLdham and areas of the North generally - where i live as Scottish ex pat- loads of industrial jobs for minimum wage that white folk would not do and the immigrants arrived in times of full employment to do the dirty shitty low paid jobs the natives would not. these were predominantly in the northern industrial heartlands that still existed in the late 60' and early 70's. Its either that or they like rain, terrace housing and grumpy white folk 😉
Once there the other immigrants were drawn to places with folk like them with shops that sold things from home and had places of worship for them etc.
This no longer holds true as many of the northern industrial areas are "wastelands" but immigrants remain drawn to them because immigrants , generally, end up in enclaves much like Brits in Spain and France settle where folk speak english and they can get by without learning spanish/French and still get the sun and the DM and buy proper baked beans
[u][b]JUNKYARD[/b][/u]Could you highlight this anti english behaviour from Scottish folk who have chosen to live there?
Done.
Even Trump tweets have more evidence to support them than that effort
C'mon, that was quite good and you know it. 🙂
More seriously, I fail to see the point in specifying the details of my experiences and observations, they're not necessarily indicative of others'.
Sadly I completely missed the joke 😳
Perhaps we should not be trusted to run our affairs after all 😉
We Junkyard?
RE OLdham and areas of the North generally - where i live as Scottish ex pat- loads of industrial jobs for minimum wage that white folk would not do and the immigrants arrived in times of full employment to do the dirty shitty low paid jobs the natives would not. these were predominantly in the northern industrial heartlands that still existed in the late 60' and early 70's. Its either that or they like rain, terrace housing and grumpy white folkOnce there the other immigrants were drawn to places with folk like them with shops that sold things from home and had places of worship for them etc.
But that isn't the reality, in each wave of immigration from radically different cultures Oldham is more popular than Scotland. Polish is the second language of Lancashire showing how wide spread this effect is.
So despite the heavily funded PR and marketing, and senior politicians who get lots of TV time saying"come to Scotland it's wonderful" people coming to the UK choose places like Oldham in preference to Scotland. Now I'm sure Oldham has redeeming features but I don't remember any "come to Oldham" campaign.
Yet the SNP continue to peddle a message that they can create? a bright future for iS built on immigration
big_n_daft - Member
RE OLdham and areas of the North generally - where i live as Scottish ex pat- loads of industrial jobs for minimum wage that white folk would not do and the immigrants arrived in times of full employment to do the dirty shitty low paid jobs the natives would not. these were predominantly in the northern industrial heartlands that still existed in the late 60' and early 70's. Its either that or they like rain, terrace housing and grumpy white folk
Once there the other immigrants were drawn to places with folk like them with shops that sold things from home and had places of worship for them etc.
But that isn't the reality, in each wave of immigration from radically different cultures Oldham is more popular than Scotland. Polish is the second language of Lancashire showing how wide spread this effect is.So despite the heavily funded PR and marketing, and senior politicians who get lots of TV time saying"come to Scotland it's wonderful" people coming to the UK choose places like Oldham in preference to Scotland. Now I'm sure Oldham has redeeming features but I don't remember any "come to Oldham" campaign.
[b]
Yet the SNP continue to peddle a message that they can create? a bright future for iS built on immigration[/b]
well the fact there's less immigration than oldham would suggest they possibly could increase it if they had the powers. not really seeing your issue here?
Well unless yout train of thought is that scotland's a shitehole that one one wants go to anyhow.. in which case I'll leave you to sneer in private.
Back in reality all it means is that UK immigration policy doesn't work for scotland, so they should have the power devolved, if not, it's a plus for the independence side..
Another plus for scotlands economy btw, scotland could grow its population quite considerably. You can't say there's not room for physical growth up here.
I asked on the last page whether you had any theories.people coming to the UK choose places like Oldham in preference to Scotland.
Maybe it's because Oldham is like a 3rd world country and it reminds them of home?
It's a funny old argumant the immigration argument, it's hardly even like england is bursting at the seems compared to years ago...
1941 2,693,775 ?0.5%
1951 2,688,987 ?0.2%
1961 2,699,711 +0.4%
1971 2,729,741 +1.1%
1981 2,575,441 ?5.7%
1991 2,569,700 ?0.2%
2001 2,482,352 ?3.4%
2011 2,685,400 +8.2%
I asked on the last page whether you had any theories.
No I don't, i wouldn't choose Oldham as a place to emigrate to so the appeal escapes me
So, it could be exactly the factors that Junkyard and I suggested?
well the fact there's less immigration than oldham would suggest they possibly could increase it if they had the powers. not really seeing your issue here?
What powers are there that make Oldham more attractive that Scotland doesn't already have? Are they local, or National? please state where the discrimination occurs in this national policy?
Or is it just people voting with their feet?
Well unless your train of thought is that scotland's a shitehole that one one wants go to anyhow.. in which case I'll leave you to sneer in private.
I've been to Oldham and to Scotland, Scotland has lots of attractions, Oldham does not come out well in a " redeeming feature" game
Back in reality all it means is that UK immigration policy doesn't work for scotland, so they should have the power devolved, if not, it's a plus for the independence side..
What changes are they proposing? What are the actual policies? How are they going to out compete with Oldham as a place to come and work??
[quote=tjagain ]We Junkyard?
you have met me I am at least average sized
Scottish folk as in the diaspora to which i belong
So, it could be exactly the factors that Junkyard and I suggested?
I must be underestimating the family, religious and cultural links between the Eastern European and the Indian subcontinent
Loads of Eastern Europeans in my town too. Few Asians though.
Do you think if big and daft asks any more questions, he'll have a point? 😆
Ooh, is it that the facts are different or more important than the opinion of two Scottish nationalists. 😉
well the fact there's less immigration than oldham would suggest they possibly could increase it if they had the powers. not really seeing your issue here?
What powers? What legislation would be passed to change this? It's easy to say "we want the powers for this, that and the other". I've never seen the SNP or any of their supporters state what specific changes they would actually make.
So, given we currently have free movement from the whole of the EU (about 740 million people that could come to Scotland with no barrier at all), what legislative changes could be made to improve that number?
Scotland needs immigration. The problem is that immigrants don't seem to want to come here. What's the solution? What laws would be passed using powers currently reserved?
Allow us to set our own standards for immigration. Make it cheap and easy if we want.
Allow us to set our own standards for immigration. Make it cheap and easy if we want.
You can't 'set your own standards' because you're part of the EU remember...
[i]"EU Immigration Rules
Since 1999, the EU has been developing a common immigration policy for Europe.
EU countries have agreed that the EU should have common, or EU-wide, immigration and visa rules that will be valid all across the EU, in the 27 EU countries"[/i]
unless, of course, you remain part of the UK... because, in the words of the EU there a dispensation allowing "Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies."
Allow us to set our own standards for immigration. Make it cheap and easy if we want.
We'd do better by getting the weather devolved tbh.
nah you could just make it a more welcoming place by saying
"look we quit the UK coz we're not like our small minded, little englander, brexit-voting neighbours to the south. Here, have you tried a beef olive?"
nah you could just make it a more welcoming place by saying
"look we quit the UK coz we're not like our small minded, little englander, brexit-voting neighbours to the south. Here, have you tried a beef olive?"
Not sure if you can get those in Oldham, might be the critical factor
Ban them and the flood gates will be opened
Why do immigrants at the moment prefer the "small minded country " to the south of you?
Why do immigrants at the moment prefer the "small minded country " to the south of you?
its fairly obvious
[img] 
[/img]
and I live in engerrluuund !
Why do immigrants at the moment prefer the "small minded country " to the south of you?
Anecdotal but....
In a previous workplace with a very high percentage of the workforce being immigrants (White English being an ethnic minority) there was two common themes about choosing England over Scotland.
1) Language (I shit you not)
2) Never heard of Scotland (I still shit you not, thought it was all England and just headed to a less cold bit, not sure that explains Oldham)
Adding to this, language was a common reason for choosing the UK instead of say Spain, or Italy. That and employment prospects.
Big and daft - have you ever been to scotland? Edinburgh is almost half immigrants!
YOur whole concept here is simply wrong
IIRC at the last census around 20% of Edinburgh residents were English. I know that the proportion in Argyllshire is higher. Maybe we need to track some down and ask them why.tjagain - Member
Big and daft - have you ever been to scotland? Edinburgh is almost half immigrants!
tjagain - MemberBig and daft - have you ever been to Scotland? Edinburgh is almost half immigrants!
This is a silly thing to say, and is of course, bollocks. It also sounds like something my mother would say... 😆
🙁
Your whole concept here is simply wrong
He's just saying that there are more immigrants in England than Scotland. This is true you know. I was assuming you weren't being literal with your Edinburgh comment...
scotroutes - MemberIIRC at the last census around 20% of Edinburgh residents were English.
They're not immigrants though, are they?
Errmmm- yes they are and I thought if you included the students it was higher than 20% English 🙂
They're British living in Great Britain.
How on Earth are they immigrants?
Have you forgotten about that cosy chat Scotland had with England 300 odd years ago?
its fairly obvious
You have clearly never been to Oldham
IIRC at the last census around 20% of Edinburgh residents were English. I know that the proportion in Argyllshire is higher. Maybe we need to track some down and ask them why.
They've been to Oldham? Parts of East Lothian get 600mm annual rainfall, in Oldham that's a dry month
Over 20% of school kids in Edinburgh are privately educated, good job that's a devolved matter, or are they full of the English?
And if you are counting the home nations in the "immigration" statistics the numbers look even worse for Scotland
Yet to see an answer as to Why do immigrants at the moment prefer the "small minded country "
big_n_daft - Member
...Yet to see an answer as to Why do immigrants at the moment prefer the "small minded country "
Pretty obvious, innit?
Building up critical mass so there's enough of them to take over parliament and declare Sharia Law.
I know that must be right because I saw in in a FB post from Britain First.
They're British living in Great Britain.
I think you're arguing over semantics here.
migrant
NOUN
A person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work or better living conditions.
But that's not really the commonly held definition of migrant. Mainly i suspect? as a result of how immigration has been portrayed by media and politics.
A person who moves from one place to another, especially in order to find work or better living conditions.
If I move from Hampshire to Middlesex to get a job I am a migrant. But they are clearly not the moves/numbers anyone is interested in or bothered about are they.
That was the point.
[b]BREAKING NEWS[/b]
Scotland scored a bonus point in the win over Italy yesterday.
Teresa May allowed them to have it.
Allow us to set our own standards for immigration. Make it cheap and easy if we want.
What could be cheaper and easier for the 740 million EU residents than free movement? Why don't they want to come here?
Also - the EU won't let you for other countries.
Big and daft - have you ever been to scotland? Edinburgh is almost half immigrants!
Have you ever been to Edinburgh?
84% of Edinburgh residents were born in the UK. Roughly half the immigrants are EU, half are not.
I live in edinburgh and I am a migrant - as are almost half the population of the city
For those of you that keep on saying " Sturgeon should get on with her day job"
From the SNPs own website so don't forget your pinch of salt
What they have done
https://www.snp.org/record
What the aims for the next year are
https://www.snp.org/good_news_from_the_snp_conference_you_may_have_missed
What many commenttors don't realise is the SNP and the scottish government are only reported in the english press when its something to with constitutional change - you never get to hear about what has been done and the press is overwhelmingly anti SNP
This is a good read as well if you want to understand the mood up here. McKenna is no SNP supporter - he often lays into them
tjagain:
Big and daft - have you ever been to scotland? Edinburgh is almost half immigrants!
No it isn't!
In my experience a lot of Scottish people believe that Scotland is ethnically diverse, but compared to several parts of England it is not.
The majority of Scotland isn't ethnically diverse I'll agree (we're about 99% white where we are) but the likes of Edinburgh is certainly, and because of the sheer number of tourists and students in the centre always feels far more.
