And this talk of "Scotland" as some homogenous beast is also misleading. The same agreements about unrepresentative powers concentrated in narrow regions occurs in Scotland as they do for the whole UK. And remember the result of the vote
Dundee, Glasgow, N Lanarks (just) and W Dumbartonshire v the rest
OH thm the mask slips further still
Anyway I am sure NW and others are relived you do not play the man
oops forgot my use of winkys there didnt i
😉
😆
Scotland has some stunning scenery and great people.
They were also treated like carp by the English.
Don't blame them if they want to leave and would love to join them.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/scottish-independence-voting-intention-results-september-2016/
"Speaking for the people of Scotland!!" 😀
Sturgeon is merely using Brexit to strengthen SNP position by casting doubts in people mind regarding the Union.
She knows very well that if she keeps quiet there is a very big risk their fire (SNP majority) will slowly burn out if PM May succeed in creating an unexpected Brexit success (or whatever negatives previously predicted).
Hence, she is using her leadership time to push for her own SNP agenda that can only be win win for her(I think she wants to be SNP leader for a long time) . For example:
1. Blame Brexit if Scotland is not doing well under SNP. i.e. Get the knife in while someone is still bleeding.
2. Suggest independent would make them better off but the Union prevented them (actually people do not want independent but keeping banging on the point anyway).
3. Claiming to be part of world citizen, EU or whatever BS there is so they want to be part of that (no, keep out of Asia).
All the blames above would ensure that she will not be accused of failing whatever she promised as SNP leader.
I bet King James 1 would be turning in his grave not resting in peace with all these SNP talks.
1. Scotland wasn't doing well ages before Brexit, significantly poorly in fact if you look at the GERS figures and particularly when economically you remove major capital projects. People are in la la land if they think we can have a sustainable economy without something giving. Our top level tax take, the mythical 1% aren't where the money will come from, it's the next layer. You know, all those middle class cockwombles in their BMWs who are bank middle management. WERE bank middle managment post article 50 execution more specifically
2 Exactly, lets make an assertion with no basis.
They should really concentrate on creating better social equality, tackling child pverty in scotland which is an utter disgrace and stop myopically espousing 'facts' that are, generously, exaggerations.
. Scotland wasn't doing well ages before Brexit, significantly poorly in fact if you look at the GERS figures and particularly when economically you remove major capital projects. People are in la la land if they think we can have a sustainable economy without something giving. Our top level tax take, the mythical 1% aren't where the money will come from, it's the next layer. You know, all those middle class cockwombles in their BMWs who are bank middle management. WERE bank middle managment post article 50 execution more specifically
So Scotland is uniquely unqualified to run its own affairs in the way any other small european nation does?
GERS is not argument against independence. Almost all the economic levers are still in the hands of Westminster not Holyrood. [i]If[/i] the Scottish economy is a mess then its a sign that the status quo is not working not an advertisement for it.
So Scotland is uniquely unqualified to run its own affairs in the way any other small european nation does?
No, it just gave up that right when it signed the act of union, which as you well know was designed at the time to be forever and irrevocable
starting point was 25% last time...teamhurtmore - Member
> http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/scottish-independence-voting-intention-results-september-2016/"Speaking for the people of Scotland!!"
Indyref 3.
There's already been 2 once in a lifetime referendum on independence in my lifetime what difference will s third make?
when was the first?
1979
My bad was for a devolved parliament.
yup.
tbh If you look at that timeline.
79failed devo, (18 years) 97won devo, (17 years) 14failed indy, (16 years) 2030 scotland will gain independence.
It is an inevitability and the timeline I'd think people should be looking at.
THM, I see you [i]still[/i] don't know what post-truth politics is. You still seem to think it's anything you don't agree with.
In case I'm missing something, can you give us an example of SNP post-truth politics from the last seven days?
Richmtb-i wouldnt say we were unqualified , for a very long time we didn't really need to worry as we were propped up by oil. Not so now. A lot of our central belt employment is also predicated on financial services. Financial passporting agreements will define what happens to that , I suppose we could mysteriously enter the EU and be a powerhouse, that would be great but I am a bit light on details of how hatcwould happen. Anyway, as a major employer it worries me.
can i have a pound bet he makes up something and spins it to the point of being untrue like the Euro point NW addressed
Whether Scotland can stay in the EU or not is being spoken about with an awful lot of certainty given the fact that no one, and I do mean no one, knows what would happen.
[url= http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37307203 ]Although this chap doesn't seem to think there'll be a problem[/url]
Simple: since when has Scottish nationalism had membership of the single market at heart. This week has been another smokescreen with false claims about "rights" about the biggest lie of all - "best interests of the people of Scotland."
Lets condisder fact: According to the Scottish Government’s own figures, Scotland’s removal from the single market would be far less damaging – by a factor of four – than its removal from the UK single market. And yet how does the narcissist present this in the posttruth world? You tell me.
History showed us that they were prepared to lie royally throughout and this remains the case. Only the blind cannot see this. Fortunately they (still) remain in the minority.
Scotland deserves better
It's about time Yorkshire got its chance for independence! Sick of hearing about Scotlandshire want another vote. If they were not so narrow minded they could become part of an Independant Greater Yorkshire or YUK (Yorkshire United Kingdom).
I have to admit I'm surprised the voting intentions haven't changed since the referenda - maybe you shouldn't believe all you read on here.
Amongst all the rubbish THM does make some good points (it's a shame he has to spoil it with the bluster - he clearly knows a lot more than people give him credit for). The fundamental one here being that like many remainers I'm prepared to put my political dislike for the EU to one side given the clear economic advantages. Yet the Scottish indy folk are prepared to vote for worse economic strife for the sake of a political point. Yes, I am English, but just like a French person looking at the brexit vote I recognise it would be bad for both of us.
[quote=aracer ]I have to admit I'm surprised the voting intentions haven't changed since the referenda - maybe you shouldn't believe all you read on here.
I guess it depends on how you ask the question?
May seems to be totally ignoring the Scottish people with a hard Brexit, I can see why NS would want another referendum.
Amongst all the rubbish THM does make some good points
why thank you
May seems to be totally ignoring the Scottish people with a hard Brexit, I can see why NS would want another referendum.
Have you met Mr Tusk?
cchris2lou - Member
May seems to be totally ignoring the Scottish people with a hard Brexit, I can see why NS would want another referendum.
Yes, Sturgeon is taking this opportunity to back stab PM May because she knows PM May is busy dealing with EU and Remainders at the moment.
She is trying it on as usual by pushing her views across strongly. She can even speaks without blinking her eyes and normally speak non-stops (without "breathing" or stopping) because she is trying to be viewed as if she knows what she is talking about. Very well rehearse.
The more PM May deals with EU with Brexit negotiations the more Sturgeon will push her views strongly across.
There should be a correlation with Sturgeon calling for independence and PM May negotiation intensity with EU.
If you want to know if PM May is intensifying negotiation, all you need to do is look at Sturgeon reaction.
Sturgeon will be able to get inside information from her EU bureaucratic informants. I assume they are buddy buddy because of the "common" enemy.
Does Tusk have some sort of responsibility to Scotland- did you not argue they were not in the EU as it was only the UK that was in ref 1 discussions? The UK is the only one that can do a soft brexit as the eu wont change the rules for us. we know this and we have always known this.
I agree THM does know his stuff but it would be better if he did not couch it in childish names for politicians and if he clearly articulated hos views rather than alluded and patronised.
I doubt the economic argument is as clear cut if the option is tied to the EU or tied to a post EU UKYet the Scottish indy folk are prepared to vote for worse economic strife for the sake of a political point.
Is the real problem not that the non scottish voters just voted for this and Scotland would rather avoid it ?
@cchris2lou she's ignoring most of the people, I don't think anywhere near a majority voted for hard brexit. Which is one of the big issues with the whole thing.
Since the brexit thread got hijacked by indyref talk, are we going to do the reverse here? 👿
Interesting as the pitch - though palpable lies- was to include access which looks increasingly unlikely- as we all knew anyway
Part of me hopes May is just doing all this so the three brexiteers get a shit deal and parliament force her to let them vte and they compromise on a new vote on the offered deal
Who knows with may as she sees hell bent on reducing immigration at any cost.
I agree THM does know his stuff but it would be better if he did not couch it in childish names for politicians and if he clearly articulated hos views rather than alluded and patronised.
Wasn't that what I just wrote? 😉
THM has the economic argument spot on - Scotland is far more closely tied to rUK than the EU - it is fairly clear cut.
Well at least NS is doing something about it.
The English opposition is missing in action.
This may have been answered before but what would be the drive for businesses to relocate to an independent Scotland following brexit rather than say Ireland?
In terms of risk moving to a location that would still be in a state of flux in terms of taxation, currency, sovereignty and access to the EU rather than an established location where all this is set.
Once you take the oil and pound away from the situation what can be offered that is unique compared to other countries?
I personally I think the situation is a complete cluster
aracer - Member
Since the brexit thread got hijacked by indyref talk, are we going to do the reverse here? 👿
😆 I think they are all inter-related topics because Sturgeon is acting by proxy for EU. EU is encouraging Sturgeon to do her best to sabotage the entire process of Brexit.
Actually No but more likely they just don't believe in EU.cchris2lou - Member
The English opposition is missing in action.
Fairly clear cut?????
Excuse me, it's 100% certain.
Hence the desperate need to warp it all up in BS. Or take the argument that we don't mind being worse off, as long as we are responsible for being worse off. Total madness
But it's nothing to do with this anyway, Both issues are about narcissists who put their own political agendas ahead of the interests of the people they are supposed to be service. It's shameful and scary that people are fooled by it.
Both issues? Can we roll Trump into this thread too, as your last para could have been about him. Though the difference is that I'm prepared to accept that Sturgeon does care a bit about the Scottish people.
this is unfairBoth issues are about narcissists who put their own political agendas ahead of the interests of the people they are supposed to be service.
Boris typified this Farage [ and other Brexiters] and NS do not. They belong to parties who have a single issue that defines them/their party. They are not narcissists nor are they putting their own agenda ahead of the people they just have polices you disagree with so you will be rude about them
Be rational there is much to criticise in both of them with out DM style hyperbole.
would you stay in an unhappy marriage just because it was better financially for you?Or take the argument that we don't mind being worse off, as long as we are responsible for being worse off.
Of course its important but it is not EVERYTHING you seem to forget that it is not always about money, for other people, if not for you.
Lets condisder fact: According to the Scottish Government’s own figures, Scotland’s removal from the single market would be far less damaging – by a factor of four – than its removal from the UK single market. And yet how does the narcissist present this in the posttruth world? You tell me.
I have no idea what you're saying but whatever it is it's got nothing to do with post-truth politics.
I am just a poor boy from the benighted glen,but I thought the only way we could trade with EUROPE was if we voted no two years ago? Suddenly Europe isn't all that and trading with England is the way ahead? 🙄 We will be leaving,not as soon as the SNP would like,but brexit has set the break up of the union in motion. But for all the " disenfranchised" posters on this thread,surely as the subsidy junkies your press describe us as,getting shot of us will be worth a huge advert on the side of the jambybus telling you how much better off you will all be:That will be a wee shot in the arm surely? However I must say that though I have had my differences with him,I am touched that THM loves us Scots enough to swallow that burden on his taxes.
Remain voters getting dragged in a direction you want nothing to do with by a majority of people who think radically differently to how you do.
Welcome to being Scottish.
Well, this was me two years ago on the night of the referendum result:
[url= https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8678/30324626865_5fc39d0b29_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8678/30324626865_5fc39d0b29_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/NcFD5e ]Independence Referendum Night[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/cycleologist/ ]Ben Cooper[/url], on Flickr
I remember Margaret Curran shaking her head condescendingly at me during this. Turns out I was right and she's out of a job.
Funny old world, isn't it?
Both issues? Can we roll Trump into this thread too, as your last para could have been about him.
For sure, but don't dare mention who got took in by Trump in the past 😉
Bruce - carry on, it most be very nice to love is a blissful world where reality merely passes you buy. Enjoy it.
Duckie, feel free to examine patterns of Scottish trade. Or ignore them if it makes you and Bruce happier.
I'm still waiting for the secret oil fields and oil boom promised by Yes the last time round.
Took in by - my apologies - taken in by
I'm still waiting for the secret oil fields and oil boom promised by Yes the last time round.
Well, I'm still waiting for the EU membership, the steel jobs, the guaranteed shipyard contracts, the HMRC jobs, the "near federalism", the renewables subsidies, the carbon capture backing, and the extensive new powers promised by the No side.
