[Closed] Salmond on Newsnight

I think that refers to the scottish bankruptcy that led to the 1703 Act of Union.

However the consensus is well to the left of England and has been for 50 years. I am sure it would continue to be so.

Even when they have to start picking the whole tab up for the lifestyle they currently enjoy?

Scotland ran out of oil before? Did someone accidentally turn the tap off?

Last time they had a financial crisis....

Well, in that case I'm sure that England will take us back like the abused spouses that they are. You just can't say no when we make those puppy dog eyes can you?

Well if independence forces the English Labour Party to take a large and permananent step to the right I will be delighted. I may even vote for them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/sep/12/scottish-universities-uk-students-fees

Ah, found the article. Apparently not - interesting to see how this pans out. Edinburgh strongly rumoured to discriminate the other way at the moment. I wonder if this will change?

£4k difference in revenue to the Uni if I understand the article correctly

elzorillo - scotlands economy is in surplus and has been for 4 of the last 5 years. Its perfectly affordable especially given the savings that would accrue on such things as no more trident, no foundation hospitals, no privatisation of the NHS, no foreign military adventurism. Plus an independent Scotland would be able to set economic policy to suit Scotland

The UK governments own figures show Scotland has having a deficit less per head of population than the UK as a whole and there are significant flaws in those numbers that exaggerate the deficit.

The cash flows from Scotland to England.

Search out Druids posts on this for a nice summary

mudshark - Member
Will they come begging to England, once the oil's mostly gone, like they did before?

Sell their body parts perhaps?

Turn Glasgow into fresh farm fish ponds?

Produce more Salmon(d) that is consider the best fish (spin it) in the world and nothing but the best unlike you lot in the South eating fresh mackerel shite etc from the sea?

Generate super dooper world bestest biggest turbine wind power?

Be the world greenest country with the entire population living on renewable energy?

Yes, the best of the best and the greenest of the green. They are on top of the world.

Whiskey shots for all every Saturday night.

The cash flows from Scotland to England.

Indeed Gary - but it will be interesting to watch. In the meantime, I wish some English Uni's would look at the 4 year Masters course with a broader first two years. Such an excellent "education".

si = search out druidhs posts on it.

Zokes - doubt all you want, Its nothing to do with tidal lagoons - its turbines. Scotland has a huge potential for alternative energy and it is vastly greater than most countries

And just how will it export all this? Transmission losses stack up pretty fast over those distances...

There are a lot more places in Europe than are currently utilised capable of generating renewable energy from one source or another. It would be good to see your definitive research that takes this into consideration.

That and the fact that if worst comes to worst (as it probably will, soon enough), there's a lot of coal down there too...

Plus an independent Scotland would be able to set economic policy to suit Scotland

Not really, you either want to stick with GBP, in which case Westminster still has a big say, or the Euro, in which case Germany does. I think we've seen what happens to smaller nations under that scenario....

Whiskey shots for all every Saturday night.

Imported from Ireland?!

Indeed Gary - but it will be interesting to watch. In the meantime, I wish some English Uni's would look at the 4 year Masters course with a broader first two years. Such an excellent "education".

mudshark - Member

Whiskey shots for all every Saturday night.

Imported from Ireland?!

How dare you!

How dare you for degrading the Bestest whiskey country in the world!

The whiskey in Scotland is the bestest of the bestest and nothing like the shite everyone produce all over the world.

Without whiskey the world will stop spinning and wars will start and starvation will increase all over ...

Whiskey is the blood of the world.

😆

p/s: very very small invisible print ... ingredients might come from Ireland or other part of the world and the whiskey producers might be owned by multinationals ...

chewkw

Funny, I always thought the Scottish were famous for whisky.

The Irish are however undeniably very good at whiskey

HTH

On a far more important note, will the Scottish tennis player Andy Murray now lose to Djokovic or will the British tennis player Andy Murray now go on to win the Aussie Open? 😉

Well done that man - and a couple of relatively easy matches/walk overs. Can he tame the Djok?

Gary - on the contrary, I rate it very highly. I learned more in my second year (still broad) than in the rest of the other three years. My " " were meant to indicate education in its proper sense. I think English Unis could learn a lot from Scottish ones.

First year was too easy though to be frank!

Can he tame the Djok?

Probably not, but it'll be good to think so for a while before he lets us down in the same inevitable Henmanesque way that always seems to happen in tennis

zokes - Member

chewkw

Funny, I always thought the Scottish were famous for whisky.

The Irish are however undeniably very good at whiskey

HTH

Both are very good but then those from Scotland have to insist on being the bestest because they say so. Since they are the best nothing can compare to them ...

zokes - Member
Plus an independent Scotland would be able to set economic policy to suit Scotland
Not really, you either want to stick with GBP, in which case Westminster still has a big say, or the Euro, in which case Germany does. I think we've seen what happens to smaller nations under that scenario....

Hate to say it but this is probably the most sensible post thus far. Other than mine obviously.

Both are very good but then those from Scotland have to insists on being the bestest because they say so. Since they are the best nothing can compare to them ...

Chewkew - the clue's in the 'e' 😉

The Scottish make whisky. The Irish make whisk[u]e[/u]y.

You wanted everyone to drink the latter

Since they are the best nothing can compare to them ...

Don't be too complacent....

[img] [/img]

Wasn't Suntory voted the world's best whisky recently? I think I remember reading that somewhere.

Suntory. That's made where? Is it a Speyside??

zokes - Member

Chewkew - the clue's in the 'e'

The Scottish make whisky. The Irish make whiskey

LOL! Did not notice that ...

D'oh! I better start hoarding them (whisky) now as I fear them banning me for blasphemy of the bestest drink in the world and sending hitman over the border.

I think that refers to the scottish bankruptcy that led to the 1703 Act of Union.

Indeed. I wonder how much the bailout, with 300 years of interest would be?

Well, as it's finally got a lot cheerier in here, I'd better finish my Australian dram and hit the sack!

G'night

[url= http://www.spirosbottleshops.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/267x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/H/e/HellyersRoadpeated.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.spirosbottleshops.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/267x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/H/e/HellyersRoadpeated.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I'm loving the[i] "Scots live on handouts from England"[/i] guff that gets bandied about. Either you've never heard the phrase [i]"people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"[/i], or else you're living in denial about your own situation.

It might have escaped people's attention, but the whole of the UK is living beyond its means at the present time. Interestingly, the Beeb had some figures the other week which broke down which areas were most heavily subsidised. Interestingly enough, the most heavily subsidised area of the UK was London, population slightly over 5M, so before you get yourself tied up in knots worrying about the flow of money northwards, you might want to consider how everybody north of Watford is getting shafted by your capital city.

Likewise, people who mock the idea of Scotland focusing on the oil industry might want to pause and reflect on the heavy emphasis placed on the financial sector, which is basically what rUK would be relying on to keep it going. In case anyone had forgotten, it's screwed, and only likely to get worse. That of course is the real legacy of Thatcherism, an adventure in social engineering that was funded by the proceeds from Scotland's oil, the true value of which was expressed in the McCrone report and deliberately hidden from the Scots population by successive governments until 2005.

that was funded by the proceeds from Scotland's oil

It's the UKs oil.

DJ - lighten up and have a dram - all that anger isn't good you know.

As you said, either way we're screwed, so have a sip of one of Scotland's better inventions and be happy!

That of course is the real legacy of Thatcherism, an adventure in social engineering that was funded by the proceeds from Scotland's oil, the true value of which was expressed in the McCrone report and deliberately hidden from the Scots population by successive governments until 2005.

It's not Scotland's oil - it's Britain's oil. Unless you think that RBS's debt is Scotland's debt?

It's not Scotland's oil - it's Britain's oil. Unless you think that RBS's debt is Scotland's debt?

Really? You want to do this again?

I'm a Southern Irelander whose independence was gained by a very nasty war for independence, an even nastier civil war and partition that has resulted in too much pain and loss and poisoned relations between an awful lot of people for generations. This Irish model is pretty much the norm for these things.

So however much money or oil has to be handed over or debt negotiated blah blah blah be thankful and take pride in the fact it will be a lot cheaper and more importantly, pain free, than the usual route.

Consultation document just released on-line by the Scottish Government:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/01/1006

Interesting that they propose keeping the Queen as Head of State.

Relax D_J, you are being overly sensitive again. Plus you may need to relax before looking at the Riaghaltas na h-alba stat's on the contribution of Financial Services to the Scottish economy 😉

Interesting that they propose keeping the Queen as Head of State.

She's already got digs in Edinburgh, and a wee 'fixer upper' up on Deeside, so it'll be cheaper than getting someone new in.

Really? You want to do this again?

If you like. We could once again have a go at explaining "you can't have it both ways".

The simple fact is that who gets what is a matter of negotiation, not entitlement.

ransos - Member

I think that refers to the scottish bankruptcy that led to the 1703 Act of Union.

Indeed. I wonder how much the bailout, with 300 years of interest would be?

Posted 15 minutes ago # Report-Post

Go and google "parcel of rogues" because you obviously know nothing about the act of union.

Got to say zokes, hurtmore etc are all trying to pretend that it doesn't matter to them, but have lot of increasingly far-fetched reasons why it couldn't/shouldn't.I have asked you this before when you were making an increasingly hysterical case for independence for the Shetlands, but why do you care if Scotland becomes independent?

Zokes did make good point about choice of two evils,but why do you think a fedral German master would be any worse than the English one? And to this stuff about us being spoilt by English subsidies...A new high speed link from London to Brum...at the same time it is announced that the A9 is not going to be dualled till at least 2025,by which time another 200 people will have died on it. It would cost less than that increasingly white-elephantesque stadium that we are all getting to contribute money to.

I love how out of all the previous post about our current economic situation, the trigger that people respond to is [i]"Scotland's oil"[/i].

Under the arrangements post the 1979 referendum, the income generated by the oil did indeed flow into the Exchequer, but my point was more about the broader situation that we all face. My concern is that people seem to be pretending that Scotland is somehow the sick relative of a healthy England, when in fact most of the UK is being bled to sustain London and the south east. It's been set up that way since the early 80s, and the current government is set on continuing that arrangement. Does anyone actually believe for a minute that David Cameron actually cares about the Union, other than as a convenient cash machine for his paymasters in the City.

My desire for an independent Scotland is because I can't see any other way of escaping the sickness at the heart of the UK economy, even if it means I'm financially less well off for a good few years to come.

Go and google "parcel of rogues" because you obviously know nothing about the act of union.

I know that England bailed Scotland out because Scotland was incapable of administering its own finances. Can we have it back please?

Ransos

ditch_jockey - Member

McBoo - seriously, do you have some kind of cognitive impairment that prevents you from processing the information that is presented to you time and time again? RBS currently has UK government as its majority shareholder as a consequence of the 'bailout' - The money borrowed to buy the shares, and the shares themselves are part of the overall assets and liabilities of the UK as a whole, and the SNP independence proposals accept that Scotland should shoulder a proportion of the liabilities as part of the arrangements.

Conflating the RBS and oil revenues just adds to the obfuscation, whether it's being done deliberately to cause mischief or because people simply can't think clearly.

Ransos - the oil is in Scottish territorial waters as defined in international law.

Scotladn would take its 8% of the UK debt despite this debt being generated only in England and not in Scotland

TJ - North Sea oil was developed and produced because of the UK government, not Scotland. Exactly the same logic applies.

Ransos - the oil is in Scottish territorial waters as defined in international law.

Scotladn would take its 8% of the UK debt despite this debt being generated only in England and not in Scotland

1. There are no Scottish territorial waters, only UK ones.
2. UK debt was generated in the UK.

That's why I say that it's all about negotiation.

Wasn't Suntory voted the world's best whisky recently? I think I remember reading that somewhere

I've nothing to add to this debate politically, but I couldn't let the above statement go unchallenged. Suntory? A giraffe is what you're having, I think. I'd honestly rather drink Bells (and it takes something to make me say that).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-15423862

Current 'everyday' fave is Talisker 57 North - even at £50 a bottle it's fantastic value, as it's taken me a year to get through it.