[Closed] Salmond on Newsnight

Serious question now Uncle Jezza. Would you get a vote?

What are the criteria?

In a bizarre case of STW mirroring real life..... all of the above not answered here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16636325

'....will someone think of the Panda's....' 😉

Scotland holds most of the EUs energy sources and fishing grounds and would be an engaged and positive partner in the EU.

Doubtful on the former, and as for the latter, I guess you've not seen where the Spanish et al fish, regardless of sovereignty...

binners - Member
Serious question now Uncle Jezza. Would you get a vote?

What are the criteria?

Anyone who either lives in Scotland for over a certain time or who has family ties here, parents, grand parents? Just a guess... Does it matter?

Interesting bit in on the BBC web site about the views of US citizens with "Scottish roots" on this -

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16537073 ]25m Americans claim Scottish ancestry, according to some estimates[/url]

That might skew the vote a bit.

Also some interesting bits on there about the possible makeup of governments in Scotland; oh how I would laugh if an independent Scotland ended up with a right wing government instead of Salmonds "progressive" state.

The Scots already have a very nice slice of the welfare system, with a much better deal than the English get.

Personally I couldn't care less if they have their independence, but I do worry what it may cost us later picking up the pieces of this egotistical madness.

I do worry what it may cost us later picking up the pieces of this egotistical madness.

binners - Member

Serious question now Uncle Jezza. Would you get a vote?

What are the criteria?

As I have a vote in Scotland now yes I would

The Scots already have a very nice slice of the welfare system, with a much better deal than the English get.

If you're going to resent the NHS and welfare benefits we get in Scotland, dont resent us, resent the fact you didn't vote for a party that would give you them.

Its not Scotland fault that we get free uni education yet the English have to pay £9000 a year, that was CmD and his cronies who brought that in, and we certainly didnt vote for him.

oh how I would laugh if an independent Scotland ended up with a right wing government instead of Salmonds "progressive" state.

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

Scotland holds most of the EUs energy sources and fishing grounds and would be an engaged and positive partner in the EU.

So what happens when Abu-[s]Dabi[/s]Shetland decides it would rather be independant seeing as you've decided the oil's being divided up geographicaly rather than demographicaly?

Would the same rules apply?

Its a bit of a non argument seeing as they've not expressed any desire to separate, and we went over this last time, but yes, the same rules would apply. 🙄

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

Personally I couldn't care less if they have their independence, but I do worry what it may cost us later picking up the pieces of this egotistical madness.

My position exactly! Salmonds economic policies are insane, cloud-cuckoo-land stuff. Totally and utterly unsustainable in the medium to long term. I suspect he'd be coming cap-in-hand, effectively bankrupt, in a few years.

Either direct to Westminster, or through the EU to save a bit of face. The result would be the same. Us picking up the tab for Salmonds ego-fuelled flights of fancy

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

That's an interesting point. Mark Thatcher and his friends, as you read this, could be tooling up for a military coup 😆

That's an interesting point. Mark Thatcher and his friends, as you read this, could be tooling up for a military coup

Not really much to worry about though is it?
A couple of Glaswegian taxi drivers would take care of them.

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

Norway.

Probably the closest country to Scotland socially and politically as well.

If you're going to resent the NHS and welfare benefits we get in Scotland, dont resent us, resent the fact you didn't vote for a party that would give you them.

Its not Scotland fault that we get free uni education yet the English have to pay £9000 a year, that was CmD and his cronies who brought that in, and we certainly didnt vote for him.

When the egotistical experiment goes t1ts up (as it surely will, for the current levels of benefits scots receive have been shown to be totally unsustainable in the long term), you'll have the benefit of Greek/Italian style imposition of eurocrats who will impose a standard of state benefit way below that even the underdog English currently receive.

enjoy..

, for the current levels of benefits scots receive have been shown to be totally unsustainable in the long term),

Proof?

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics-news/2011/12/05/price-of-independence-poll-shows-majority-of-scots-would-back-split-if-it-made-them-500-better-off-86908-23611253/

The Scottish Social Attitudes survey found that 65 per cent of Scots would back independence if it meant that they would be slightly wealthier.

Proof?

Just about every independent study on the economic situation in scotland.

The most recent I'm aware of by the CPPR

'Latest analysis by the Centre for Public Policy and Regions said Scotland would face a budget deficit of about £17 billion per year and inherit a £125 billion share of the UK’s national debt.'

thisisnotaspoon - Member

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

Draw up a list of small oil rich countries that have left wing governments?

Draw up list of small oil producing countries that are not in the gulf.
Norway,Scotland.

Draw up a small list of oil producing countries that are not in the gulf and dont have right wing governments.
Norway, Scotland.
Easy.

seems pretty unlikely given the voting patterns in Scotland for the last 50 years

The SNP have had an increasing proportion of the vote since 1970 when they overtook the liberals. I would suggest that a significant part of their support is from people who support Scottish independence and have voted accordingly. If that issue is out of the way the political landscape changes and other parties' negative associations with the Westminster parties are lost; I wouldn't like to bet on what happens after that.

Interesting interview last night but not particuarly useful to inform and it got bogged down with unnessecary detail (transporting gold FFS!).

I guess from a rUK (un-united kingdom?) point of view there are few downsides economically - loss of some oil and renewable revenues, plus costs that we'd have to bear to reorganise joint services. On the postive ecenomics side? I beleive that the gov payout to the scotish gov is above the 8% of their percentage of the population. The main negative I have is that without scottish labour MPs we'll become almost a one party state in the UK.

From a Scottish point of view there are many more possible economic risks, plus practical problems (re-organisation)and just it being harder to be a small country in the global ecomomy (eg. what if the scottish curency devalues for some reason or scottish government bonds have higher interest). Although self determination is right people should have.

I'm Scottish but live in Cumbria so I understand the deep rooted national pride that Scots have. I do really worry about the viability of a freestanding nation. Alex Salmond has frequently quoted Denmark as the example of what a population of 5m can do.

I work for a Danish company and they come from a recent position as an industrial and economic powerhouse with income coming from all over the world (a scenario that will be impossible for a developed nation to produce in the medium term). Alex has also failed to state that the Dane's pay 50% income tax and a Ford Focus costs about 35k with taxes. You need to pay an awful lot of tax to maintain a NHS style infrastructure with only 5m inhabitants.

whatnobeer - Member
Its not Scotland fault that we get free uni education yet the English have to pay £9000 a year, that was CmD and his cronies who brought that in, and we certainly didnt vote for him.

OOI - whatnobeer, do you know how much a Scottish Uni receives for each student. Is it the same as in the rest of the UK? Is the revenue to the Uni the same irrespective of whether its the Scottish state (for want of a better word) paying or an English parent?

Or is it like the case of US students where the revenue (I think?) is considerably more. In which case will the law of unintended consequences mean that some Scots will be disadvantaged as Uni's under revenue pressure decide to allocate more places to higher revenue generating students? There was an article to this effect in the Guardian re Edinburgh Uni. Imagine if you are a AAA student from a Scottish school and you lose a place to an English student with ABB simply because he will pay more. I assume this cannot happen, but can you confirm?

Am I right in thinking that Scotland has 25% of Europe's wind and tidal resource?

Sure that was the number.

If so they are welcome to keep them.

rio - 85+ % of the vote in Scotland goes to leftish parties. tories are an irrelevance on low teens last time and heading for single figures.

But only one in five would want to go it alone if it meant a £500 a year reduction in living standards.

I'm sure there's something about Scots and thrift in that 😀

Am I right in thinking that Scotland has 25% of Europe's wind and tidal resource?

You'd have to be monumentally brave/stupid to base an economy around that.

So what happens when Abu-DabiShetland decides it would rather be independant seeing as you've decided the oil's being divided up geographicaly rather than demographicaly?

<yawn> so where's this movement for Shetland Independance then, other than 1 English diddy claiming independance for himself and who is seen as bit of an embarassment by the rest of the islanders?

tories are an irrelevance

Who pays for all the new Scottish/ currently UK civil servants' pensions? And all the other state pensions for that matter?

Works for Russia. Pay up or the lights are going out. 8)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/sep/12/scottish-universities-uk-students-fees

Ah, found the article. Apparently not - interesting to see how this pans out. Edinburgh strongly rumoured to discriminate the other way at the moment. I wonder if this will change?

£4k difference in revenue to the Uni if I understand the article correctly

You'd have to be monumentally brave/stupid to base an economy around that.

Maybe, but it can't be much worse in the long run than basing your entire economy around tertiary industries as the UK does now.

How's Scotland going to fair in the battle for Rockall without any warships?

[hypothetical] What if westminster were to support and fund a shetland independence movement? Increase the living standards of the isles massively in exchange for preferencial oil prices[/hypothetical]

Am I right in thinking that Scotland has 25% of Europe's wind and tidal resource?

I very much doubt it. It's damned windy in lots of places (Ireland being a good example), and pretty much anywhere with a coastline and reasonably shallow sea bed could host a tidal lagoon.

Maybe, but it can't be much worse in the long run than basing your entire economy around tertiary industries as the UK does now.

Touche!

Though I think we know who we can blame for that....

Zokes - doubt all you want, Its nothing to do with tidal lagoons - its turbines. Scotland has a huge potential for alternative energy and it is vastly greater than most countries

Am I right in thinking that Scotland has 25% of Europe's wind and tidal resource?

I can't even begin to understand what that could possibly mean.

rio - 85+ % of the vote in Scotland goes to leftish parties. tories are an irrelevance on low teens last time and heading for single figures.

I would expect all Westminster parties to be an irrelevance in an independent Scotland. The political makeup would change. It would be unwise to assume it would all go Salmonds way.

People in Scotland people get more spent on them than those in England - £10k v £8.5k? How would Scotland get on without the oil money? Will they come begging to England, once the oil's mostly gone, like they did before?

Rio - I suspect you are right to some extent and a mature independent Scotland the SNP would tend to split.

However the consensus is well to the left of England and has been for 50 years. I am sure it would continue to be so.

Will they come begging to England, once the oil's mostly gone, like they did before?

Scotland ran out of oil before? Did someone accidentally turn the tap off?