Follow the link above, para4, then picture. Below the picture is clarification, and it says “Player on the same team” drawing 2 lines, 1 for each team.
But a ruck was changed so it could be 1 team only as per the text which I quoted. Lawes was offside
<h2 class="">Law 16: Amended Ruck Law</h2>
<p class="">A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside line is created. A player on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives no hands can be used.</p>
If the tacker rolls away a team can be over their own player on the floor and its a ruck does this mean the defending team has no offside line?
The link you are using must be out of date as it describes a ruck as
A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground.
Which is not correct anymore, the laws are clearly, not clear or not uptodate on their own site.
No, actually that wording was clarified and amended following an application from ARU to clarify the interpretation - pasted below.
As you can see, it states the ruck law is now rule 15, not 16, so your link above is out of date.
<h1>Clarification 2 2018</h1>
<div class="clarification_title">Clarification in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee</div>
<div class="clarification_name">Clarification</div>
<div class="clarification_data">2-2018</div>
<div></div>
<div class="clarification_name">Union / HP Ref Manager</div>
<div class="clarification_data">ARU</div>
<div></div>
<div class="clarification_name">Law Reference</div>
<div class="clarification_data">15</div>
<div></div>
<div class="clarification_name">Date</div>
<div class="clarification_data">17 April 2018</div>
<div></div>
<div class="clarification_request_title">Request</div>
<div class="clarification_request">
I refer to your recent correspondence with Rugby AU General Counsel Mr. Patrick Eyers regarding Rugby AU’s request for clarification of World Rugby’s Law Variation Trial with respect to Law 16, Amended Ruck Law (Law 15 as of 1 January 2018):
<i>“A ruck commences when at least one player is on their feet andover the ball which is on the ground (tackled player, tackler). At this point the offside line is created. A player on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate. As soon as an opposition player arrives no hands can be used.”</i>
Specifically, Rugby AU is seeking clarity on its understanding that the Law creating offside lines when the first arriving player gets over the ball was intended solely to address the “no offside lines at a tackle” issue, and that it wasnot intended to modify the way the ball was contested at the breakdown. That is:
- the first arriving player from the defending team can always go directlyfor the ball with hands if there is a window to do so; and
- if the player has to drive an attacking player away first in order toaccess the ball, then no hands can be used.
Rugby Australia is seeking a formal World Rugby Law clarification on the above to help aid a broader understanding of this trial law and its application across the game.
</div>
<div class="clarification_clarification_title">Clarification of the designated members of the Rugby Committee</div>
<div class="clarification_clarification">
Your assumptions in all three questions are correct ie:
- The Law creating offside lines when the first arriving player gets over the ball wasintended solely to address the “no offside lines at a tackle” issue, and that it wasnot intended to modify the way the ball was contested at the breakdown
- The first arriving player from the defending team can always go directly for theball with hands if there is a window to do so
- If the player has to drive an attacking player away first in order to access the ball,then no hands can be used.
<h4>Addendum</h4>
The Fifteens Law Review Group met on Monday 16 April and agreed to bring the Ruck law trial into full law. They also agreed on the following simplified and more logical wording of the law:
Offside lines are created when at least one player is on their feet and over the ball, which is on the ground. A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground.
It is hoped that this revised wording will help resolve the questions that you raise.
</div>
So basically, 2 phases :
1. offside lines now created in the tackle, regardless of opposition involvement.
2. Ruck formed when players from both teams are in contact, then standard ruck rules apply, back feet of each team.
the Times has a whole feature on how New Zealand jumpers cheated
Could you enlighten the non Times readers amongst us?
By Ben Kay.
Eng lost 3 lineouts.
First one Brad Shields has his arm taken out in the air - should have been a pen.
George called for Dummying. It wasn’t a dummy as his arm never came forward.
Retallick jumped across the line to steal landing on top of Sinckler - pen England.
He says Eng actually adapted well to a change in NZ Lineout defence but officials let them down.
So basically.....
Lawes was offside!
World rugby have said the Lawes decision was correct - both in the way it was arrived at and as to the actual decision.
Lawes being offside is irrelevant because we should have taken he three points on offer earlier in the game which would have cancelled out the previous AB score.
It does highlight that we need to work on our handling because when we were building pressure we got a bit excited and screwed things up.
Overall im not that disappointed because I had zero hopes! What we need to do is play like that for the next two matches.
I agree, the refs decision is final, you win rugby by creating and executing. We mucked some of that up and did not have enough margin to absorb the noise in the signal to noise ratio of refereeing accuracy.
I am also pleased, was an excellent game to watch and gives more hope then despondency.
Lots of peeps saying NZ team is not very good, there seems to be a correlation between NZ fielding a poor side and when ever they play England.
That being the case, which England players of Saturdays game would any of you lot rather have in your side than the corresponding All Black?
I will say that whilst Kieran Reid is a leviathan of the game, you would have him in your side always, I am convinced he developed a McCaw like leadership streak. Yet.
So which of the home nations is happiest so far from the AIs & where do we all sit for the 6N?
I am NOT convinced he HAS developed a McCaw like leadership streak.
I need a skills check...
So which of the home nations is happiest so far from the AIs & where do we all sit for the 6N?
I'm happy - as long as England continue to Elevate themselves in that manner and don't slump. Whilst as about there's clearly some learning to do about the on field decision making, England played well in the main and in all but the result took it to the AB's and outplayed them on the day.
I don't agree with the travel/weakend AB's. You are what you are on the day and we had a weakened team also. 3rd choice 8 and 6, 2nd&3rd choice props, a shaky full back and a ponderous out of sorts 12.
For once Jones got it right and hopefully he sees the in form positional play coming back into the team (Sinckler, Simmons) and adding value for the 6N. Watson will be back soon, so Watson, Nowell, May, Ashton, Daly quite a good selection at the back. Slade looked good on Saturday, add Manu as a finisher and I think our strike potential is growing. The Vunipola's back at the front and that area gets escalated. Laws played well, and Launchbury is back over Christmas also.
I think that has the makings of a strong England team, also with some good depth that can continue to get tested against the lesser teams such as Scotland and Italy. 😉
Dantsw
for Scotland the jury is still out
Against Wales we learnt that without the experienced 9 and 10 we struggle
Against Fiji we learnt we can put away tier 2 teams well.
Positives - a couple more players showing they are worth a place in the side thus giving us more options - Nice to see Stauss back as a bulldozering 8, Ritchie looks a good back up 7, Skinner looks a good addition at lock where we could do with more options. Centres still remains an issue as so many are broken
Until we have played a tier one team with our full team available we won't really know where we stand.
Wales have won two games, thats good, they havent created much, thats bad. Overall I think they are playing at about the level we want to be pleased. We still lack carriers in the pack and get round it but just tackling all day long.
Until we have played a tier one team with our full team available we won’t really know where we stand.
If the teams weakened due to injuries, that's just tough, it's the way it goes. All team always have injuries. You'll see Krytons list above, that's a fair number of players out for England, it just needs to be managed. I know the immediate response is 'England have more playing resources' but that's just how it is, I predict there will never be a day that Scotland actually have all 22 of their first choice players fully fit and available.
I’m awaiting the Ire v NZ game with interest. I don’t follow the pro14, so don’t see their domestic rugby week in week out, but their form in Europe looks ominous.
I listened to an interview with George North on 5 Live podcast this week - it was a damning inditement on the amount of rugby players in the English Prem are expected to play, which must play a big part in our long injury list.
AA didn’t see the match but I assume the roof was closed against Aus, so weather not a factor? What was the reason for the low score? Lack of ambition or just defences on top?
TJ - I think Scotland will always struggle for consistency with their new attacking style. When it clicks it’s great, but you are becoming the New France!
tinybits - yes injuries are a part of the game but for the wales game we were missing our first choice 9 and 10 as it was outside the international window thus they were not released to play and the lack of experience in both those positions told. I think we would have coped with losing one of the two but to lose both meant a lack of leadership and cutting edge which we saw in the game.
No player is irreparable and yes you have to cope without injured players but missing the experienced spine of the team ( 8 as well ) weakened us considerably.
So when we play SA with both these guys available plus strauss or denton in the back row plus Hogg back from injury we should be better
Edit - my point being that we do not know yet how we will be against tier one opposition when we can select non scots based players. Will we be the team who capitulated to Wales last year or the team that spanked Aus
What was the reason for the low score? Lack of ambition or just defences on top?
Defences were on top, Aus tried to run it but Wales defended very well, wales were always leading really so didnt need to push it. The ref was quick to ping for holding on which never helps and he didnt expect the tackler to release before going for the ball. Wales played the welsh way, give the opposition the ball and then defend...
Wales played the welsh way, give the opposition the ball and then defend.
I think you stole that idea from England.
Well, was happily surprised on Saturday but also, sadly, was correct in some of my predictions 🙁
Positives first, for the first 35 England looked ferocious. I don't believe it was an under-strength/jet-lagged/whatever ABs (just look at the second half), they were simply outplayed and pressurised.
This was in no small part down to Youngs and Farrell. The forwards made the yards and big the hard work with Youngs being the best I've seem from him in a while. Really fast to/from rucks and lightning fast delivery to runners at pace. Gave Farrell time to make the right calls and passes. Great box kicking.
Ashton got a nice try for his first game back.
Underhill is the new Mad-Dog.
Moon impressed.
Pack were animals.
Negatives,
Youngs reverted to type after the first 35. Massively slow, let the pressure off the ABs, box kicks became a bit aimless, no runners at pace.
Subbing of Hartley really damaged the lineout (although due to injury). Not all Georges fault as the ABs piled on the pressure at lineout time but does make you wonder what might have been if the sub had been later...
Barely heard from Ashton and Teo after the first 10.
Daly, while doing not a lot wrong, is wasted at fullback.
Lineout calls not changed enough when it started to creak.
Second half ABs did school us, they looked dangerous as hell, when the pressure wasn't put on them like the first half.
All in all, a good shift and an impressive game from the men in white.
Men in black showed their class as the didn't crumble. Fantastic game if you happen to be a neutral!
Barely heard from Ashton and Teo after the first 10.
Teo messed up his man marking which, had he not done, may have prevented the McKensie try. He bought their play big time. I hope it is a mistake and not a permanent flaw as some of his carries and midfield defence were good.
Edit - I might be thinking of Slade actually, I am having a hard time trying to find decent footage.
edit 2 defo slade.. tackled Barrett when he should have been marking McKensie and I think Farrell was on to Barrett.Slade got in his way.
I think you stole that idea from England.
England like to keep the ball as they have lots of carriers for heavy traffic, Wales dont. Both teams are pretty dull though, much like Ireland.
Underhill is the new Mad-Dog.
You know, Moody was in the ground. I did wonder whether Jones has used him in training to work with Simmonds or had him in the changing room pre-match when I saw Simmons performance.
Simmons hard earned that shirt though, I can't wait to see Simmons V Hooper.
You know, Moody was in the ground. I did wonder whether Jones has used him in training to work with Simmonds or had him in the changing room pre-match when I saw Simmons performance.
Simmons hard earned that shirt though, I can’t wait to see Simmons V Hooper.
Simmons was not on the pitch. do you mean Underhill?
Just seen that Gary Graham has decided that he’s Scottish again having declared for England previously despite being ‘Scottish through and through’...
Mindmap, has he played a proper test match for England? seems a weird one that, especially as the one thing we have is plenty back row forwards.
for the first 35 England looked ferocious. I don’t believe it was an under-strength/jet-lagged/whatever ABs (just look at the second half), they were simply outplayed and pressurised.
If I had NZ$5 for every time Wales had started well against the All Blacks only for them to roll up their sleeves and show us who's boss in the second half, I'd have enough for a decent meal out.
show us who’s boss
That wasn't the case with England though.
So which of the home nations is happiest so far from the AIs
I'm pleased with Wales' performance mentally, because so often they seem to lack the concentration and mental stamina to close a game out. The fans start getting panicky at 70 mins with a slim lead, and I think the players do too. Except that match was the first time I've seen them look like they could carry it through. As an armchair fan I thought the Welsh defence was outstanding - but then I fully accept that some other team might find a different attacking option and run straight through.
show us who’s boss
That wasn’t the case with England though.
Agreed in terms of score, and that was the surprise. Still lost tho 🙂
Youngs had a better game but even in that first 35 was hit or miss. Some great box kicks, some great delivery, great pass, but a lot of indifferent stuff. There's nothing scary about seeing Youngs in the lineup. He's neither a commander nor a live wire like he was when he first broke in to the team. Doesn't matter though when the pack are immense and Farrell kicks his penalties (when not going for the corner).
Te'o has always been a liability in defense. There was a great video showing his and Slade's instincts in defense and they aren't singing from the same hymn sheet.
The backs are always going to be pretty irrelevant to an English side so it is hard to criticise the others involvement. The free flowing rugby in Argentina seems like an age away when going back in the old direction
Pack was devastating at the start. You feel that any team needs to put about 30 points on the AB's when they have a surge on top and they would have easily done that against any other side. You can only applaud NZ for that. Underhill was an animal but will he receive an honourary 6.5 short like so many before him?
I’m pleased with Wales’ performance mentally, because so often they seem to lack the concentration and mental stamina to close a game out.
I think that aspect has been overrated compared to weak bench options compared to the teams we are trying to beat. Saturday we had a number of options off the bench who we arguably stronger than the starters.
@DanW - The Youngs of the first half, while not perfect, was a damn sight better than I've seem him for a while. And I've never been Te'o's biggest fan, but when he plays well puts big dents in the gain line, just doesn't seem to be happening at the moment, maybe due to not enough game time!
While glad Ashton got his score, I cant help but think Jones played him too soon. Having Nowell and May on from the start (1 <span style="font-size: 12.8px;">strength 1 </span><span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">speed) then bringing Ashton on when the legs started to get heavy would have been a better tactic IMO (although with hindsight he wouldn't have got the ball much due to momentum shift to the ABs)</span>
The Youngs of the first half
Had front foot ball, second half he didnt, simple really
Had front foot ball, second half he didnt, simple really
Does this mean the forwards were on the front foot so he had ball time whilst the AB's were reorganising their defensive line?
FYI my comment about England giving the ball away and then defended was meant to be ironic, I am sure they like to keep it, but against SA we had naff all possession, and I don't think that was the game plan.
Are you saying wales game plan is to give up possession and defend? Or were you being ironic too? I think Wales always look ****ing dangerous ball in hand.
I think Wales always look **** dangerous ball in hand
You've been to Specsavers in Cardiff high st, obviously.
Some teams like to kick away everything in their own half and defend, some like to holfd the ball. I thought ( from the bits I saw) england kicked far too much ball away. However its the ABs who actually do this most. ~Wales also play like that. You can guarantee if you kick deep from a kickoff to wales they will kick it back. safety first.
Scotland always look to attack first everytime they get the ball and only kick if the attack is not on. High risk high reward. sometimes it works and sometimes they get turned over near their own line.and look foolish.
Murray and Henshaw confirmed as out for the rest of the AI’s. Can’t help feeling that Ireland’s task has just got lot a harder on Saturday without Murray.
Are you saying wales game plan is to give up possession and defend?
Pretty much yes, they kick long avoiding touch and pressure the opposition. Often you see a fair bit of kick tennis in welsh games as the opposition kick it back trying to force an error, Wales usually just boot it back long again. In previous years Biggar would chase a high ball which he is excellent at, without him its just more long balls down the middle and trust the defence. Wales only try and play once they have possession inside the opponents 10m line.
Does this mean the forwards were on the front foot so he had ball time whilst the AB’s were reorganising their defensive line?
Pretty much, nines and tens always look better when the pack is getting over the gainline. This is why many people used to think Dawson was a better 9 than Howley as Dawson played in a better team with a brutal pack in front of him.
You’ve been to Specsavers in Cardiff high st, obviously.
Well they have stomped us plenty of times by playing scary attacking rugby.
I am just hoping for more scenes like this this season!
Edit
that was supposed to be the clip of laidlaw pished singing flower of scotland! shonky forum !
try again
What is Greenwood on? Explains why it was offside but thinks it was too marginal to be given???
