Cockers heading north of the border for next season - what to Edinburgh fans make of that appointment?

Hmmm, expect a very forwards dominated game plan with no idea what to do once they get hold of the ball!

Leicester now being linked to Mike Brown (I assume as replacement for Matt Tait). They are building quite a back division if they can figure out how to get the ball and how to keep these players from spending most of the season injured!

As a Glasgow supporter...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Nope; not enough..HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Cockers?

I think he might just be the chap. Edinburgh need some backbone - the players are better than the results. He might be able to give them the backbone they need

I can see Cockerill suing the SRU for mis-selling. There is a quote on the BBC pages saying "I relish .... working with a clearly talented group of players". Does he think it was Edinburgh who removed the Tigers britches twice in Europe? I expect that when he gets to the first training session and sees Bryce at FB, he'll ask if Hogg has a cold and a note from his mum excusing him from training, comment about how Finn Russell looks much slimmer on TV than he does in real life etc

To be fair, Cockers has achieved more than most directors of rugby, certainly more than any scottish coach has ever done....

(hides behind sofa....)

I fear for his health... he gets agitated about refereeing at the best of timse and the Pro12 will really test his blood pressure!

Beeb saying 6 scots passed fit for Wales game...I reckon we will win easy if they only have six players.

Its all we have left standing AA. Be nice to us won't you?

Edwards from BEEB intresting I thought

Edwards revealed the team had not stuck to their normal strategy after claiming possession off England with less than four minutes remaining and while leading 16-14.

"What happened was we broke our structure," he said.

"From an unstructured turnover where our backs actually turn the ball over we're supposed to go through two rucks to get our backs back on their feet and our kick chasers.

"We didn't do that. We passed it back to the kicker after one ruck which was a mistake. I don't think even Jonathan expected the ball which was probably one of the reasons the kick wasn't as accurate as it normally is.

"But everyone makes mistakes. And if one of us makes a mistake we all make a mistake together so it's not a matter of us and them it's a matter of we.

"Our kick chase wasn't set up because we expected another ruck after the turnover. We didn't have a kick chase in position and that was the issue."

I'm still not convinced May wasn't in touch having collected the pass from Care, then tackled by Williams before giving the ball to Itoje in the corner (around 30 secs before the turnover). Given the lack of chat about it, he mustn't have been. It wasn't looked at at the time so I assume it wasn't even questioned. It's around 1.40 on the youtube link below.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYMSac_9uuM

You might be right but hard to tell from that angle...we'd have lost the lineout anyway!!

Yeah, we'd need to see it from another angle. Just looked very close. Wasn't shown on the day.

we'd have lost the lineout anyway!!

Fair point. (Although with the weakened England line-out, even your mid-week captain might have managed to win it.)

😉 etc
😐

Fascinating insight into how structured the game is now in many phases.

Not sure if that is a good or bad thing, mefty?

DD 😉

Not sure if that is a good or bad thing, mefty?

It is just the nature of the game nowadays, there is still room for flair or "heads up footie".

It is quite instructive watching a game with someone who has gone through the academy structures, they can often predict a couple of phases in advance when watching. With all the tools available now, it is just even more technical. The amount of time spent coaching foot placement at the breakdown even at school level is quite extraordinary. In my day, it was just a question of how hard you trod on the bugger on the ground.

Fair point. (Although with the weakened England line-out, even your mid-week captain might have managed to win it.)

Have you seen our back up pie chu....I mean hooker?!!!?

Not sure if that is a good or bad thing, mefty?

I this particular point Edwards is right though. Biggar wouldnt have missed touch and he was just coming back to his position as Davies shanked his kick. One more phase first and the ball would have gone to touch and the defence would have been better organised if he did miss.

Oh well shit happens.

Shit?!? Miracles more like.... 😉

Is Scott Baldwin your back up hooker? I've always thought that he was a good player whenever I've seen him play. Just what did happen to Hibbard?! Lions first choice to obscurity in a season! (Obviously I know he's still at Glaws)

Hibbard plays in England so might not be available for selection. Had some falling out with Gatland after being injured for Wales and then playing for Glos.

Wales are pretty weak at hooker. Owens is ok but a bit lightweight at international level.

You've answered your own question there Tom B.

Gatlands Law about players outside Wales. Unless they are extra special or extra lumpy.

Garlands law only applies if the player has been offerred a contract so I'm not sure Hibbard fits. Moriarty doesnt nor Owen Williams I think...load of bollocks.

Anyway current Lions 15

Hogg ( token Scot)
Ashton
Teo ( token Irish)
Henson
Solomina
Cippriani
Phillips
Hughes
Hask
O'Stander
?
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Nel
Kiwi Gouger
The Pikey Hater

question marks in the second row? Got to be room for ickle jonny in there

Nel is broken

Not sure Ickle Johnny is annoying enough!!
Whats the Irish fella with the angry face?

Devon Toner? Looks like a bank manger who has had his chips pissed on

No he's the bean pole one..

Donnacha Ryan

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Lolz at the token Irish 😆

Doubt Ireland will providing the tour with a lock. Mako, Launchbury, AWJ, Grey....then possibly Lawes if 5 go?

Ok I'm sold Mako Vunipola as token prop at lock...team sorted

Hogg ( token Scot)
Ashton
Teo ( token Irish)
Henson
Solomina
Cippriani
Phillips
Hughes
Hask
O'Stander
Donnach angry Ryan
Mako Vunipola ( token out of position prop)
Nel
Kiwi Gouger
The Pikey Hater

Doubt Ireland will providing the tour with a lock. Mako, Launchbury, AWJ, Grey....then possibly Lawes if 5 go?

Definitely a lot of strength but the balance is interesting as already discussed

On the Irish side of things, what is the current form of Henderson? He seemed to be absolutely everywhere at the end of last season

I'd be more than happy with an Irish-less Lions squad.

Ha, bloody auto correct 😳

DD - is that because you feel they need some down-time & don't want them broken?

Wales: Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon); George North (Northampton), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Liam Williams (Scarlets); Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, capt), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester).

Replacements: Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Bath), Taulupe Faletau (Bath), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Sam Davies (Ospreys), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins).

Lot of talent on the bench there!

Current weather forecast is heavy rain....Back to GATT ball?

Expecting a physical encounter regardless, with a Wales win. Though I hope I am wrong.

I was feeling hopeful about this match ( Scotland / Wales) before the tournament started but injuries have weakened Scotland to the point I am back in private Frazer mode We're doomed!

No Joseph for England..the rise of the magic armband to Lions glory?

England 24-man training squad:

Forwards: Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

No Joseph for England..

I failed to spot that yesterday. I wonder if its Ford/Farrell/Daly starting with Farrell/Slade/Teo finishing? I guess theres potential for Teo to start and bash up the Italians in the first half, but whichever it is England need to rack up the points to counter a potential loss against Ireland in the 6N table with point difference.

I expect Watson to wing and Daly to 13.

Joseph has played a lot - I imagine he has been carrying niggles & a week off will do him good. I did wonder if Ford might be on the bench too, in order for Faz to get a bit of 10 time.

I see Solomona, another Samoan rugby international, is being lined up for a white shirt.

May as well just give everyone in Samoa an England cap, get it all over with without needing to bother with all that troublesome residency gubbins.

CFH - he who is without sin may cast the first stone!

Oh, I agree, TJ. Howarth should never have been allowed to change shirts. Once you've played international sport at full representative level, you've made your choice. Code is irrelevant.

Imagine an Aussie Olympic pool swimmer switching to swimming open water, or doing triathlon for New Zealand at the next Olympics. Would be wrong.

I thought the RFU were wanting qualification rules toughened up? He played League for Samoa last year....Or is the union part of him English?

I was hoping to see Daly at 15 for an experiment but agree with AA looks more like 13

(As much as I have sympathy with your view CFH and dislike the blatant abuse such as the one you acknowledge, in practice your concept is unworkable and would ultimately fall on grounds of being descrimatory. )

Discrimination? Hardly.

He/they chose to be Samoan themselves. Can you discriminate against yourself?

CFH - is there not a female runner who has represented 3 different nations at 3 different olympics?

CFH that strategy has worked well for New Zealand for decades. Immigration asistance and schooling for talented Pacific Islander kids.

Hard to know what to make of JJ's omission. Italy game offers a chance to experiment and testing a back-up formation to Ford at 10 makes sense.

TJ, athletics is riven with the same problem. Plenty of Ethiopian and Kenyan athletes jumping ship to Qatar, for example.

Personally I would like to see qualification tightened up significantly - 3 year residency for under 16. 4 for 17 and 18, 5 for over 18

One grandparent should not be enough either. One parent or two grandparents and if you qualify by parentage a short residency qualification and you must take out citizenship

Again agree with the need for tightening to prevent Howarth-esque abuse, but here's a scenario where your argument falls down

Player A grows up in Country X and is capped at an early age
Player A then emigrates with his family to Country Y and qualifies for Country Y nationality

It would be descrimatory to prevent Player A from representing the country of his current nationality, Country Y on the grounds you suggest.

As the headmaster of Juhel Miah's school noted correctly this week, Juhel is as Welsh as anyone else, unless you are Donald Trump.

Again agree with the need for tightening to prevent Howarth-esque abuse

In that case the rules were in place. He didnt have a welsh nan so wasnt qualified. It just wasnt checked.
Problem is England and France have the best paid leagues so will get more time servers. Scotland and Ireland actively recruit time servers like O'Stander and McStraus. Wales are a shambles so we get no one and Italy dont have the cash to get anyone good.

Scotland team up
1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors)
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors)
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors)
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse)
5. Johnny Gray (Glasgow Warriors)
6. John Barclay (C) (Scarlets)
7. John Hardie (Edinburgh)
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors)

9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors)
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors)
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins)
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors)
13. Huw Jones (Stormers)
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors)
15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors)

Replacements

16 Ross Ford (Edinburgh)
17 Allan Dell (Edinburgh)
18 Simon Berghan (Edinburgh)
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors)
20 Hamish Watson (Edinburgh)
21 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors)
22 Duncan Weir (Edinburgh)
23 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors)

A bit tough on Watson who I thought as a standout player and our shortage of wings shows up with the flying dutchman AKA the turnstile getting in 'cos those dastardly english broke Maitland

Scrum should be stronger with shrek back at loosehead

Sexton back in action, for how long who knows.

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 74 caps
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 56 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster) 26 caps
11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 30 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 63 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 55 caps
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's/Leinster) 38 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) c 101 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 13 caps
4. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 44 caps
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 44 caps
6. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 12 caps
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 46 caps
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) vc 93 caps

16. Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 1 cap
17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 64 caps
18. John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 3 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 29 caps
20. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 37 caps
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 10 caps
22. Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster) 21 caps
23. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 69 caps

or the alternative real names for the scotland team
1. Shrek
2. Private Frazer
3. Zoozander
4. Big Richie
5. Ickle Johnny
6. Barcs
7. Kamikaze
8. Batman

9. One Price
10. Dancer
11. Turnstile Tim
12. Alex Dunbar ( for some reason he don't have a proper name)
13. Who he?
14. Tennessee Tam
15. Didier Hoggba

Replacements

16 Samwise
17 Laptop
18 Simon Berghan ( another poor unfortunate with only one name)
19 Tiny Tim
20 Hamish the coo
21 Piecrust
22 Meatball
23 The messiah

I failed to spot that yesterday. I wonder if its Ford/Farrell/Daly starting with Farrell/Slade/Teo finishing? I guess theres potential for Teo to start and bash up the Italians in the first half, but whichever it is England need to rack up the points to counter a potential loss against Ireland in the 6N table with point difference.

They've been training with Farrell at 10, Te'o and 12 and Daly at 13 apparently this week. Was hoping Brown might get rested this week, but looks like another 80mins of him looking angry and running into traffic with the ball under one arm.

or the alternative real names for the scotland team
1. Shrek
2. Private Frazer
3. Zoozander
4. Big Richie
5. Ickle Johnny
6. Barcs
7. Kamikaze
8. Batman

Or England

Browny
Watsony
Dalyly
Farrally
Mayey
Fordy
Carey
Hughesy
Woody
Itojey
Lawesy
Launchburyey
Colesy
Bitey
Vunipolsy

I don't think Joseph would be absent if we were playing Ireland.

Read a piece by Austin Healy saying that the lack of the go-forward ball carrying usually supplied by the Vunipola brothers has allowed opposition teams to defend better wider out as they don't have to defend narrowly so much. This, in turn, cuts down on space out wide for Joseph.

The RFU should change their qualification rules NOW. They already refuse to pick players not playing at home so they could extend it further by only picking ENGLISH players. Personally I'd rather see the likes of Strettle and Abendenon playing for England than Te'o and Solomona.

Hmm, I like the idea of tightening rules, but if we do it alone, in 3 years we will find them all playing against us!!!

AA - 😆 sounds like a bunch of footballers nicknames.

Itoje, Haskell and Hughes in the back row for England. Pretty lumpy!

Te'o to start at 13 too - bit more bulk on the pitch for sure.

Care starts. I think they're looking to play at a higher tempo and Youngs needs a kick up the arse too.

Ford stays at 10 with Farrell at 12. Pleased to see Slade retained - he did look very good at the weekend.

Mako to come off the bench too.

but if we do it alone, in 3 years we will find them all playing against us!!!

True. I agree that it would be great if all teams did it and would give the PIs a chance to retain their talent.

However, England have enough depth to succeed without imports. How many foreigners were in the 2003 RWC winning side?

large steaming pile of mince pretending to be a rugby game on beeb2(scotland) Edinburgh V blues

Two bald men fighting over a comb. But Blues win. Edinburgh were rudderless and showed no heart bar one or two players despite being in a winning position. Cockerill can't arrive quickly enough 'cos from what I know of him his teams don't lack heart.

Edinburgh just seemed to think all they had to do was boot the ball downfield all second half. To be fair with the help of the ref thats all they had done first half.

Booting the ball downfall would have done if you have some chasers and if you kick to space. Nice block tho before the blues try. Edinburgh tackler taken off the ball which allowed the break so the ref didn't give Edinburgh everything and notice how the blues stopped going off their feet and lying on the wrong side?

Utter utter mince from Edinburgh tho

In other news tho Scotland women beat Wales - their first 6N win for 7 years!

Best not look at the U20 score, TJ!

Anyway I have inlaw duties tomorrow even though its my b'day so I wont be around to moan about the ref and talk shit....good luck to all and lets hope all the players get through uninjured and if Scotland win...it will be apt that its the year TJ has returned great to have you back.
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I'll still blame the ref though!

For letting TJ back?

I mean, we all blame refs, but that's too far!

😆

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I'm working a long day tomorrow and I doubt I can get thru it without seeing the score 🙁

Seriously though, TJ, it's great to have you back. You seem less argumentative, a good thing, yet still wildly optimistic about Scotch rugby, which is an awesome thing!

🙂

You seem less argumentative

No he doesnt!

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CFH - I have tried to learn not to argue too much tho some of the politics threads make it tricky.

As for Rugby - there are reasons to be cheerful (part 3) but like most scots fans it veers between wild optimism and hopeless dejection. It really is time for this team to show what they can do tho - no excuses. depth as ever remains a problem tho. Losing Nel and Dickinson as well as Shrek really hurt us.

On the bright side Edinburgh remain the best looking team with the finest hair of any pro team. Got to look on the bright side.

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Politics is laughable these days. Join in the laughter!

🙂

On the bright side Edinburgh remain the best looking team with the finest hair of any pro team.

In case AA is busy, I'll do it.....

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Shame he is not good enough to play for Edinburgh. Otherwise he would fit right in. We are not known as the exfoliators for nothing!

For TJ's sake I won't post the U20's result for Scotland/Wales.
England U20 killed Italy though & Sale's Ben Curry was MOTM - and there's two of him!
Ben and Tom Curry are great prospects so expect to see those Coventry Pests steal them soon..