TJ is a plastique, my family are all Irish, but I was born here.
How many of the rest of you can claim true, emerged from the soil, type heritage?
Oh dear blood and soil nationalism what an outdated concept 🙂 where do you live? yer about as Irish as all those americans who claim to be irish 🙂
I actually think the qualification rules have been too slack - they re supposed to be being tightened.
I loath the mercenarys who show no loyalty to the country but its so hard to tell before they end their careers. For every Sean Lineen who made the country their home and became a scot there is a Putney or Leslie who effs off home again as soon as they are dropped. I would like imports to have to take out nationality and get a passport
Still - we are not as slack as athletics - there are people who have represented 3 countries at olympics
England does poach players as well - they have had loads of imports over the years and still do. tuilagi, vunipola, Hughes and so do Wales!
where do you live? yer about as Irish as all those americans who claim to be irish
Well exactly, I support England, I was born here. I don't claim to be irish, my folks are though.
so you are a turncoat then? tsk tsk
This is naked projection TJ... 😉
Residency laws will never be tightened up as long as NZ and OZ use the Islands as feeder countries.
Just googled; 8 of the All Blacks 2019 squad were born in Tonga alone.
Does that imply NZ and OZ have more power over World Rugby than anyone in NH then? How come?
I should have clarified; The rules were changed from 3 to 5 years in 2019 but it has been kicked down the road for the last 2 years. It was driven by England and SA but with little appetite from the other t1 nations. Apparently finally happened December this year. However being able to play for a country because Grandad shagged somebody on a stag weekend in 1968 was ignored, despite being proposed. The rule about changing country after 3 years was just a cynical dead cat.
Ok thanks.
Meanwhile, Hepburn has been banned for 3 games.
I'm confused as to how genge escaped a bring your own biscuits chat.
Red cards in autumn internationals for less contact in more dynamic situations.
Deliberate contact with head no mitigations.
I think the "imported" players are essential for international rugby. There are 7 countries whose national teams are capable of winning the RWC.
Sadly Scotland isn't one of them. Without the imports 2 or 3 of those countries would be less competitive. That would in turn make RWC a less sellable tournament. I have no idea how you go about expanding the player pool and the audience for grassroots rugby but that's the long term alternative to importing players for the national team. Unfortunately it may not ever happen.
Meanwhile, Hepburn has been banned for 3 games.
What do he do?
Surprised the play who headbutted Botham didn't get looked at!
Dumped Marler on his head clearing out a ruck
https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/1479843855822376972
There are 7 countries whose national teams are capable of winning the RWC.
NZ, SA, England. who else?
Interestingly in Scotland we seem to have developed a really good pathway for bring thru our own players now in a way we didn't in the past. Maybe we just have better folk coming in that we used to.
Ross Thompson is looking good and getting plenty of game time and he is only 12 😉 Rory Darge, Scott Cummings, Dobie, McLean, Hodgeson
sometimes our weakness can be a strength. Because of finances a fair few stars move out of scotland mid carreer but this gives the youth chance to gain experience at a younger age than they would in France or England. I think we could put a team out now without imports that would be almost as strong as the team with imports. Not the case years ago. someone like Martin Leslie would not get a game for Scotland nowadays
Ah the dark days; remember when the Evans brothers were viewed with almost religious zeal? When we capped Tom Heathcoate while he was playing for Bath seconds? Allan Bullock? David Callan?
I don't even remember Callan. Bullock wisnae that bad!
blimey
Grim.
Happened in Manchester, England player, not played for a few years, aged 29. I know who my money is on.
I still miss Brendan 'The Chainsaw' Laney.
Brendan ‘The Chainsaw’ Laney.
Edinburgh had a run in the euro cup which earned them half a million that they were not expecting. They spent it on Laney. When he arrived folk who did not know him asked who the new prop was he was that fat!
That player has some iffy female company a hooker and not a rugby player.
@TJA Australia,they've done it already although they're weakened just now.
France surely some time
Wales and Ireland with a strong following wind.
I don't think any of them bar France have the depth for the campaign Wales are below Scotland in the rankings
Ireland sitting well in the rankings tho so maybe.
They spent it on Laney. When he arrived folk who did not know him asked who the new prop was he was that fat!
That is 100% true.
AA I thought you would have been consumed with jealousy watching Laney bearing in mind he scored more in one 6n game(24)than Wales's choice of imported Kiwi full back scored in his 19 caps.😘
Or does Howarth not count because he wasn't actually eligible at any time during his international career?
3 weeks for Sutherland and a punishment exercise. Seriously; available for 29th if he does a coaching course!
What did he do? I missed it
AA I thought you would have been consumed with jealousy watching Laney bearing in mind he scored more in one 6n game(24)than Wales’s choice of imported Kiwi full back scored in his 19 caps.😘
Or does Howarth not count because he wasn’t actually eligible at any time during his international career?
At least Howarth was good!
In the recent Autumn internationals the foreign born element of the various squads was:
Scotland 46%
Japan 37%
Italy 30%
Australia 29%
England 28%
Ireland 26%
Wales 24%
France 13%
NZ. 12%
SA & Argentina 0%
Hardly gives credence to the NZ stealing all the PI players plot does it?
Martin Leslie wouldn't get a game for Scotland now coz there'd be a line of better Kiwis and Saffas in front of him......
remember that number for Scotland includes english born scots like Watson. try telling Hamish he is not a Scot! Others as well
Non UK born would be a better comparison for the home nations
Leslie wouldn't get a game now because we have home grown back rows! Its one position we have plenty of home grown options
@tjagain suzz went into a tackle straight backed and it resulted in a headclash red card. Not much argument.
The likes of John Barclay as foreign born. Parents from Fife and working in Hong Kong, move back to Fife where he attends Dollar Academy so foreign born. Post up your link for that please Nmbuzz. And before you are running down Leslie, remember you were capping Shontaye Hape at the same time.
Hey! I'm not running down the Leslie brothers. I thought they were both good for Scotland actually.
A Scottish friend sent me a screenshot of those figures so I don't have a link but I've seen similar figures around various rugby sites. I think in the 2019 RWC half of Scotland's squad was foreign born.
For every John Barclay there's a Jim Hamilton who's less Scottish than I am!
I'm not actually knocking Scotland. You do what you have to do and you've probably had more Englishman playing for you than Kiwis or SAFFAs.
England are far more reprehensible. We've got more than enough home grown talent yet we insist on capping the likes of Hape all the same.
If all the Tongans that ever played rugby had actually played for Tonga - how good might that have been?
John Leslie was a real star. Martin much less so.
I don't want mercenarys that naff off again once their playing careers are over. I want folk who make Scotland their home. How to weed them out I do not know. I would like imports to take out citizenship and I think 5 year qualification on residence is right - maybe reduced for youth. so 3 yrs if under 16, 4 years if 16-18 and five years over 18?
I also loath folk who drape themselves in the flag without meaning. I'd rather have a Visser who made no pretense about being scottish than someone like Shingler who pretended he always wanted to play for Scotland
The move to allow imports to return to their country of birth is a good one. too many folk have got one or two caps as an import and then are lost to their home nation for ever
It's a tough one TJ. I've never been able to come up with an answer either.
As a fan, you want your national XV to be representative of your country. If England, for example, fielded 15 players with no real links to the country - I wouldn't watch.
The PI issue could be helped by World Rugby apportioning money more fairly to those unions rather than giving more to the rich as they do now. Then Tongans could afford to play for Tonga.
The 2nd string ABs & Springboks who haven't quite made it is more of an issue. They often qualify through family history or residency but have no real connection to their new jersey.
I think there should be different rules for players from lower tier or non-rugby countries too. Visser, Pocock, Ngwenya - those guys would never have played meaningful rugby for their original countries.
The other thing with the pacific nations is that there should be tours there. Scotland went a good few years ago ad got great reception and it produced good rugby. I don't think anyone has gone since
A PI lions could work as well
I would like imports to take out citizenship and I think 5 year qualification on residence is right – maybe reduced for youth. so 3 yrs if under 16, 4 years if 16-18 and five years over 18?
👍
The problem the Pacific nations will face is always going to be the way money is divided unfairly. I f we sell out Murrayfield for Tonga as well as SA; then why not pay them the same? If it is 50% full, then 50% of what we pay tier 1 they get( checked and revised). Likewise lots of teams put the bite on Island boys to make themselves unavailable for their home nations. I still have no idea how a Jaguars side was allowed in Super Rugby either but a Pasifika side wasn't.
Shh Teej; we leaked 50 against Fiji in 2003; lets not go back!
Whilst tours to the PIs would be great they don't solve the money problem.
I was lucky enough to be in Fiji in 2019 and attend a game Vs Canada. The tickets didn't cost a lot and the stadium in Suva isn't very big so even if it's full (it wasn't) they're hardly gonna coin it in. As a nation of 900,000 their TV rights won't pay much either.
As Duckman says, paying the PI nations a share of the gate from Twickenham or Murrayfield or wherever is surely a more equitable solution?
Cardiff v Harlequins entertaining to watch.
Big performance from Cardiff, total kick in the balls at the end, but then they didn't want a draw I suppose.
I think I may be busy for Ospreys v Racing tomorrow!!
I think I may be busy for Ospreys v Racing tomorrow!!
Yes - that might be one to watch from behind the sofa
Glasgow play exeter which should be a good match today - wee bit of grudge between the teams
I looked at the Glasgow squad, they look awesome. That can only go one way.
