Must admit I had to laugh at the Labour MP commenting that you don't earn the right to peaceful protest and liberty by rioting.
Conveniently forgetting the American War of Independence and hundreds of pro-democracy riots that have taken place around the world, including the Hong Kong ones that the government supported.
The whole country is full of dimwitted **** wits.
The police were put out by PP pointing the finger after Clapham when 'they were only doing their job' as instructed and quite rightly refused to apologise. Next time round, life is made easier if you have a few 'demonstrators' acting up and you can appear to be reactive and have the government, the press and a few on here give you support and sympathy and blame the left for the government introducing repressive legislation. Result!
Enough about the police, what about the protestors?
👍
They're was quite an animated kill the bill protest (well 100 people) outside MK train station on Friday night
No riots tho
It was always going to be a lose-lose situation (either it was peaceful and didn't get reported/didn't have any impact or turned into a riot and played right into the government's hands) but I can understand why people felt they had to try (peaceful protesting) anyway.
With so much of the population willing to give the Tories all the power they want I think it's only going to change far down the line, when many of our rights have already been stripped away and enough of the population have finally had enough. Then it will need to be V for Vendetta style rebellions in order to effect change - might sound sensationalist but I honestly just can't see a it reversing in a more rational way. The Tories passing these sort of Bills sporadically with little to no mainstream media criticism is just going to keep happening until it's too late to do anything but have revolt/rebellion.
Which groups are these?
The ones rioting and damaging people property?
Usually the extreme left.
My family’s experience, in Burnley, has clearly been different to yours. It was the extreme right smashing up shops here. Ymmv
They’re was quite an animated kill the bill protest (well 100 people) outside MK train station on Friday night
No riots tho
When there is rioting in Milton Keynes we know the revolution is really coming
dazh
Yawn. The whole point of rioting, whether organised or not, is that being nice polite protestors, marching down the street waving placards and signing petitions doesn’t work because the politicians simply ignore them...blah, blah, blah.
Did you even watch the news? There was a point to the protest, a pretty important point, but there wasn't a point to the riot other than to destroy and damage stuff. They were riding on top of the police vans and laughing it off, they were lighting fires under occupied police cars, how does any of that actually help "kill the bill"?
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest - not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.
My family’s experience, in Burnley, has clearly been different to yours. It was the extreme right smashing up shops here. Ymmv
Luckily we have all of the lovely unbiased, investigative media channels reporting on the situation and they know what is what and who is who! /sarcasm
#badfaithgoodfaithnofaith
Did you even watch the news? There was a point to the protest, a pretty important point, but there wasn’t a point to the riot other than to destroy and damage stuff. They were riding on top of the police vans and laughing it off, they were lighting fires under occupied police cars, how does any of that actually help “kill the bill”?
Did you even watch the news? How many other anti bill protests did you see? The one at MK train station for example?
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest – not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.
Which will probably be illegal under the bill
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies. They did that without setting anything on fire or harming anyone. Organised protest – not a 1/2 day march. A properly organised protest.
XR was organised virtue signalling, headed by a bunch of privileged middle class hypocrites who fly round the globe to go to yoga retreats etc. All XR really managed to do was piss off a load of working class Londoners trying to get to work, so that they can pay their bills, feed their kids etc. Kind of ran out of steam after some idiot jumped on top of a train at Canning Town, then got dragged off and had a slap for his troubles. XR had a lot of public support initially, but then lost its way when protestors thought it was a good idea to prevent ordinary people getting to work. People who probably lost money/faced disciplinary action/got sacked because they were repeatedly late in. That had a real impact on peoples' lives, but in a negative way. Not the way to win friends and influence people. As for Bristol; maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government's dirty work. Or they might steam in much heavier handed, next time, and show the public what they're really about (militarised police by stealth). And then we'll see some real action...
A properly organised protest.
Yeah the same extinction rebellion who use their activists as cannon-fodder and then abandon them when they get nicked. No thanks.
I'm all for peaceful direct action, I did a fair amount of it myself in my younger days, but sometimes you can't beat a bit of rioting to bring an issue to national attention. Given the police bill has been at the top of the news all day I'd say it's served a purpose.
igm has it.
If peacefull protest is restricted they become violent as people carry on. In the past 5 years I've been on 3 "illegal" protests to stop EDL types marching through my home town. They all got violent targeted between the two groups. If the police had attempted to stop the anti demonstrators then the fight would have been against them sadly. It's not right but would have happened. I for one would have refused to depart if that had been the police stance on the day. Present government trying to restrict demonstrations is no suprise. And no I'm not condoning violence against the police.
maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government’s dirty work.
How about a pierced lung?
Oh it's okay, only good pig is a dead one.
Is that the acceptable standpoint now?
Ooh, ooh can we have an STW riot in Todmorden? I’ll bring the Aeropress! After all, nobody listens to anything else...
How about a pierced lung?
Oh it’s okay, only good pig is a dead one.
Is that the acceptable standpoint now?
The whole UK (perhaps world) seems to me to be a simmering tinderbox of anger, focused at all and anyone. I can't help but think this summer is going to see quite a lot of violence on the streets and vitriol online.
As for Bristol; maybe a few coppers with broken bones might be a deterrent to them doing the government’s dirty work.
The government’s dirty work? What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another? You know, the parliament that we all elect. ****ing idiot.
And for what it’s worth, I’m all for protests, demonstrations, marches, vigils etc. Not the handful of dickheads that like to turn them violent, they can get in the sea, but the rest of them - good on them (not the EDL and their ilk obviously).
The government’s dirty work? What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another? You know, the parliament that we all elect. **** idiot.
Very much this. The Police don't write laws nor are solely responsible for the arseholes who do.
There's a weird group on this forum who seem to thrive on the idea of chaos and violent disorder, but I suspect it's just keyboard warriors over frothing their soya frappuccinos.
idiot.
You and my wife are in agreement about one thing, at least!
What powers have they been exercising that haven’t been granted by parliament at one time or another?
Where do you want me to start? Racial profiling? I don't remember that going through parliament. Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don't remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted? I don't remember that going through parliament. I won't go on, as I desperately need the loo, but you can have those for starters.
Ah, that's better. Now regardless of whatever you, or I, or anyone else here thinks, there is a growing perception amongst the UK public, that the police are increasingly politicised, and act only when it suits the interests of the 'elites'. If that perception continues to grow, and that mistrust deepens, then we will see a lot more violence and disorder. Ultimately, it comes down to individual officers making the decision to do what they themsleves feel is 'right'. If that means 'following orders' and bashing a few protestors, so be it. But they have that choice. Nobody forces them to put on that uniform. And if they do so, under the auspices of serving and protecting society, then they have to make those decisions as individuals. And ask themselves, who are they really serving?
Extinction rebellion managed to bring central London to a standstill with peaceful protests, garnered worldwide attention and forced the government into better environmental policies.
Intrigued to know what govt policies are greener because of XR.
The whole UK (perhaps world) seems to me to be a simmering tinderbox of anger, focused at all and anyone.
Well I was beeped out by a white van driver the other day whilst out riding on my own, but other than that, it seems pretty calm to me....
What are they protesting?
It's O.K. Marvelous Marvin is in charge, so don't panic. Seems to be same shit different day living in Bristol as we are ALL racist due to the slave trade. I know, before I am sure I will get flailed this had nothing do do with that and it was against Love the place, but could really do without the idiots. I remember the St.Pauls riots in 1980, nothing changes. Is this the way they think they can changed the Police and Crime Bill. Jog on, it's more of certainty now.....
Where do you want me to start? Racial profiling? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted?
They really were busy last night in Bristol if they managed all of that.
Spying on people involved in legitimate political activism, by forming relationships with them yet not revealing their true identities? I don’t remember that going through parliament. Spying on trade union activists, then passing on information to construction firms, in order that they could be blacklisted?
Probably why there’s an ongoing public inquiry into the two Met units that did all this (SDS & NPOIU)
Bit confused but are you saying this stuff only happened over two years in the Met?
They really were busy last night in Bristol if they managed all of that.
Shame you didn't understand my point. Ah well never mind.
Probably why there’s an ongoing public inquiry into the two years Met units that did all this
And why did it take so long, and why has there been so much resistance from the police, to give information/evidence? And why the continued insistence with NCND?
But the real question is; why did it all (and much much more) happen in the first place? None of us voted for that...
Premier Icon
grum
Free MemberBit confused but are you saying this stuff only happened over two years in the Met?
Typo - now changed. It went on from 1968 to c2010 iirc
And why did it take so long, and why has there been so much resistance from the police, to give information/evidence? And why the continued insistence with NCND?
Possibly because those Special Branch units operated in a world of secrecy far removed from normal policing perhaps, I think that is one of the aims of UCPI to figure all this out.
I suspect to protect the officers who went up against other groups who were violent or criminals
NCND, well we all saw on Line of Duty last night what happens when you breach NCND and confirm a CHIS 😉
The government would do better to look at reforming the criminal justice system entirely, we spend more than the US per capita. Nope, let's keep putting them in prison to keep the gammon happy (who were induced by the fear mongering press) so we can stay in office. Increased sentencing rarely reduces offending, 85,000 currently in prison in the UK,(44,000 in 1990) let's not even talk about re offending rates, do prison sentences really reduce crime?
If the people want to protest, they will, regardless of the punishment they could face.
So on that score, last nights protestors did exactly what our evil Tory overlords wanted them to do, in making their case for their harsher laws (but only for selected crimes) and the need to further curtail civil liberties
You assume the rioters weren't arranged. Standard playbook, organise a riot then use that as an excuse as a clampdown. Watch Patel bring the crime bill back sharpish.
Increased sentencing rarely reduces offending, 85,000 currently in prison in the UK,(44,000 in 1990) let’s not even talk about re offending rates, do prison sentences really reduce crime?
We seem to want a justice system that focuses on punishment, not reducing crime.
UK recidivism - 75% of ex-inmates reoffend within nine years of release, and 39.3% within the first twelve months.
Norway - 20% after two years and about 25% after five years.
When Are Hoidal first began his career in the Norwegian Correctional service in the early 1980s, the prison experience here was altogether different.
"It was completely hard," he remembers. "It was a masculine, macho culture with a focus on guarding and security. And the recidivism rate was around 60-70%, like in the US."
But in the early 1990s, the ethos of the Norwegian Correctional Service underwent a rigorous series of reforms to focus less on what Hoidal terms "revenge" and much more on rehabilitation. Prisoners, who had previously spent most of their day locked up, were offered daily training and educational programmes and the role of the prison guards was completely overhauled.
But the gammons would go nuts, despite overwhelming evidence that it would reduce crime. Weird country we live in.
You assume the rioters weren’t arranged. Standard playbook, organise a riot then use that as an excuse as a clampdown. Watch Patel bring the crime bill back sharpish.
Organise a riot?
Organised by who?
Well I was beeped out by a white van driver the other day whilst out riding on my own, but other than that, it seems pretty calm to me….
One step away from The Road.....
You assume the rioters weren’t arranged. Standard playbook, organise a riot then use that as an excuse as a clampdown.
You seriously think these incompetent **** wits could manage that? Jeez, there's some conspiracy bollocks going round.
I doubt this rioting was incited by police, but it has definitely happened before, so I don't see why it wouldn't happen again.
Also, sort your quoting out.
There’s a weird group on this forum who seem to thrive on the idea of chaos and violent disorder, but I suspect it’s just keyboard warriors over frothing their soya frappuccinos.
pmsl.. why is there no like button on here?
Organised by who?
The Kaiser Chiefs?
The Kaiser Chiefs?
Nah, they just predicted it. Should get them off the hook.
But how did they know? Makes you think
It amazes me how the police always manage to leave a lone van completely unattended behind enemy lines in these situations....so forgetful of them.
"I say PC Knacker, don't tell me you've left the van open and unlocked with a box of matches on the front seat again!"
We seem to want a justice system that focuses on punishment, not reducing crime.
UK recidivism – 75% of ex-inmates reoffend within nine years of release, and 39.3% within the first twelve months.
Norway – 20% after two years and about 25% after five years.
Now this I can properly get behind. Needs at least a generation of upfront investment to get the longterm savings back in justice, social services etc, so no party with its eyes on a 5 year election cycle will be interested.
Not sure what it has to do with lasts nights trouble in Bristol though.
In the last 20 years there has never been sustained riots, to my knowledge, in term time.
In the last 20 years there has never been sustained riots, to my knowledge, in term time. Just saying.
Something else to pin on the teaching unions?
It amazes me how the police always manage to leave a lone van completely unattended behind enemy lines in these situations….so forgetful of them
Let's not let the facts get in the way of conjecture and speculation - the Police van that was torched was parked in a parking bay restricted for police vehicles. I have been delivering food to homeless people being housed in the YMCA hostel adjacent through the pandemic. 90% of the time we have delivered over the last year there has been one or more Police vans parked there!