[Closed] Referendum on English Independence?

Sadly, so is Bristol so it looks like it's back to Lancashire for me...

I'd be seriously worried about my economic prospects if I were Scottish right now! I'd consider moving

I thought the expats were flocking home so they could vote YES! 😉

So.. I work in IT. How many big companies that needs lots of IT work are headquartered in Scotland? RBS is one of course, any others?

(Serious question, not trolling, wondering what the economic profile of Scotland would be like post independence)

I suspect most are head quartered in capital cities as that is where the most demand is and this is true for many/most industries.
I would imagine they are more likely to have a Scottish office, probably in Edinburgh, just like IBM have a British and European ones despite being head quartered in the US.

I doubt there will be an exodus or an influx but there may well be some change for some folk.

If Scotland votes to stay in the Union, shouldn't we be able to vote to decide whether or not we want them to stay.

If they don't get automatic entrance into the European Union does that mean we would have to erect temporary boarder crossings?

Also I believe we in the Midlands will now crack on with the official 'Keep the buggers out' fence build, ready for the inevitable sea level rise.

If Scotland votes to stay in the Union, shouldn't we be able to vote to decide whether or not we want them to stay.

No that would be silly and if it were possible the SE would have been voted out by everyone else that make up these islands by now. However you are free to start your own independence movement.

the really surprising thing in all of this is that large group of English people recognising Scottish concerns about a distant and uncaring Westminster government as their own.

The problem is not the union, the problem is how the union is governed.

Spot on dmorts.

I've solved it.

Why don't we split the Country up along our shared cultural identities the TV regions?

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molgrips - Member
Please educate us Al.

See:

Chakaping - Member

Deliberately obtuse pub bore arguments like this are just a distraction from the issue.

I said educate us, Al. You've just quoted someone else not explaining what the issues really are.

As much as I applaud the plucky English desire for FREEEEDDOOOOMMM, I think that without the Scottish oil and gas resources they probably can't afford it.

molgrips - Member

Divide up the UK on ethnic lines if you are going to at all. Saxons, Danes and Britons

Are you not going to end up having to give most of England to the Germans then? Makes sense, we have one as Queen after all.

molgrips - Member
I said educate us, Al. You've just quoted someone else not explaining what the issues really are.

The issue is middle English types thinking independence/devolution etc is a joke, effectively having the same opinion as richmtb, but not seeing it, and showing no empathy (or even attempt at such) as to how governance from Westminster has effected E, W & NI.

If the English can muster up enough votes to get the issue of English independence through parliament(what scotland did), no one is stopping you, go ahead have a vote.

Here btw, would you like this toy back? I think it fell out your pram.

dmorts - Member
The problem is not the union, the problem is how the union is governed.

Which shows no sign of changing.

Northwind - Member
As much as I applaud the plucky English desire for FREEEEDDOOOOMMM, I think that without the Scottish oil and gas resources they probably can't afford it

The [b]County Palatine of Lancashire[/b] can well afford "Devo Max" or "independence" as the Morecambe Bay gas field and shale gas reserves will easily keep the lights on 😉

The County Palatine of Lancashire can well afford "Devo Max" or "independence" as the Morecambe Bay gas field and shale gas reserves will easily keep the lights on

Comes ashore in Cumbria, pal. You'll have to fight us for it!

We'll just wait til Cumbria floods again, then knock down all the bridges 😛

Comes ashore in Cumbria, pal. You'll have to fight us for it!

you need to check the boundaries of the County Palatine of Lancashire

That's as may be but it's Cumbria now!

cynic-al - Member
The issue is middle English types thinking independence/devolution etc is a joke,

Judging by many of the 667 pages published this week, the SNP could be accused of the same offence?

teamhurtmore - Member

cynic-al - Member
The issue is middle English types thinking independence/devolution etc is a joke,

Judging by many of the 667 pages published this week, the SNP could be accused of the same offence?

et al

Here they come, rolling thunder, ready to pour p1ssboring, dour bickering all over everyones fun.

Why don't you just open one thread where you can tear each other a new one in peace?

Point proven, if the SNP get pulled up for talking crap it's negativity, and then folk can't even take a wee joke about an English referendum. And you wonder why these threads flourish? There will be one about the offensive use of the term "Jock" next.....

Chill, it's Friday afternoon.

Blimey, Scotland was the home of comedy geniuses like Connelly and other less comic ones such as Boyle. Where is the SOH?

So.. I work in IT. How many big companies that needs lots of IT work are headquartered in Scotland? RBS is one of course, any others?

(Serious question, not trolling, wondering what the economic profile of Scotland would be like post independence)

Well there are one or two rather large oil companies that have serious IT requirements and also has rather large offices in Scotland. Companies like Shell and bp. Then of course there are a load of other large companies that you will probably never have heard of like Slumberger, Subsea 7 and many many more. All of them with very large operations in Scotland.

Errrr...oh never mind

then folk can't even take a wee joke about an English referendum.

Why is it a joke?
The reasons for Scottish independence are valid for England.

However you are free to start your own independence movement.

:(Slightly saddened by the whole thread and disappointed in the sentiments of the OP. Everyone here searching for the differences rather than common ground. We will end up broken down into parochial regions where the people of one town believing the inhabitants of the next town are a**e holes. I would not wish to see Cornwall or Orkney and Shetland for that matter to break away.

Agree. Unity is good.

If they vote yes I'll blame Westminster though for not reaching out. This has been on the cards for years and nothing was done.

:(Slightly saddened by the whole thread and disappointed in the sentiments of the OP.

That's ok mike. If a joke though, I worry it will bring those on board with a good riddance see you later attitude to the table. This is then used as ammunition by people keen to use the jubjugation of a nation line. I am sick fed up of the rhetoric of both.

What clout do you think Scotland will have with China or Russia?

But that's okay - it would be a small country on the edge of Europe. It wouldn't be a bad thing to focus on running its own business instead if getting involved in everyone else's.

mikewsmith - Member

It was called a joke.

After independence, those south of the border will no longer be able to use the Edinburgh Defence!

Aren't the English trying to get their own referendum anyway? To get out of the union with Europe?

I think the United Kingdom would have been more cohesive if there had been a separate English parliament and a national govt based somewhere central to all concerned (eg Carlisle)

Instead the national parliament has become seen (rightly or wrongly) as primarily serving SE England's interests and hence the dissatisfaction from the regions and other kingdoms.

Perhaps if the Thames barrage was removed and we all contributed a bit more to global warming the problem would just go away... 🙂

Why is it a joke?
The reasons for Scottish independence are valid for England.

This. I've always wondered why Scottish / Welsh nationalism is seen as a good thing and that their strong national identities should be admired, whereas the moment the idea of an independent England gets mooted (or even a wish for greater recognition of England as a defined entity within the UK), it's apparently jingoistic and myopic.

c/f Saint David's / Andrew's Day vs. Saint George's Day. Two are seen as days for patriotic pride, one is seen as shame for jingoistic middle England.

There has been plenty of jingoistic views expressed both on the forum and in the press. Can seem quite unsavoury at times.

There has been plenty of jingoistic views expressed both on the forum and in the press. Can seem quite unsavoury at times.

Yes, but this cuts both ways. Fishface blathering on about celtic tigers is just as jingoistic as camoron yelling "better together".

If Scots want Scotland to separate from England its 'Forward looking and in charge of our own destiny' if English people want to separate from Scotland its 'jingoistic arrogance'.
The double standards are really making me want Scotland to leave so we can all get on with our own stuff.

So which is it muddy? You appear to feel the same as Scottish nationalists.

So which is it

Jingoistic and myopic. We're all human beings. WGAS about what the name is for the bit of rock you happen to inhabit. It's just a political construct with no worthwhile meaning, ultimately.

I can see why Scots would want to be independent and i find it hard to disagree that Scotland should have the chance, why not?
I also think Independence for Scotland will be good for England/Wales as it will shake up the political landscape one hell of a lot, the Left will need to reconnect with their core vote and the Tories may become even more a minority party than they are now.
Scots can finally stop blaming the English for all their ills (real or imagined) and the English can give up feeling like they are being hated (again, real or imagined)
I think it will be good for both parties so I'm firmly in favour of Scotland leaving the Union.

I take your point muddy, however I take the opposite view. I think we all benefit being together. Remember that as things stand the independence view in Scotland is in the minority. Most people go about their business in Scotland quietly but broadly supportive of union. Myself aside the Yes camp is certainly the shoutiest so that is what may be seen by the rUK.

I am sometimes amazed that in Scotland we have got to the position of being fairly successful on the whole despite over 300 years of apparent subjugation.

An unforseen (or maybe not) byproduct of the Scots Independence campaign has been a rise in English Nationalism, people i speak to are pretty fed up of the heaping of blame and the 'oppressor' tag to be frank. That to me is just a way of garnering votes from a section of the Scots electorate who think Braveheart was a documentary, i believe most Scots are far more informed than that. However, i have come to the conclusion that we are better off apart.

muddydwarf - Member
An unforseen (or maybe not) byproduct of the Scots Independence campaign has been a rise in English Nationalism, people i speak to are pretty fed up of the heaping of blame and the 'oppressor' tag to be frank. That to me is just a way of garnering votes from a section of the Scots electorate who think Braveheart was a documentary, i believe most Scots are far more informed than that.

I don't understand why an English person being proud of being English is a bad thing. England is a country with a significant and great history, and this should be celebrated.

The Braveheart allusion is not relevant to the discussion. I doubt many of the current young generation have seen it (neither my 24 yr old or my 19 yr have). It's just a slur used by the No campaign to try to make the independence supporters look mindless, and probably achieves the opposite result to that intended.

An independent England would be a good thing if you could get rid of the layer of privilege and unelected at the top of your government.