Every year I've had a pay increase in the NHS it's come with a national insurance contribution rise, pretty much cancelling out any net increase. I think it was £2 a month extra last year I ended up with.
@scruff, sounds very similar to the militaries woes. ****ing politicians.
No it's a question - the ? should have been a give away - to the notion that a pay rise is insulting
Why does private sector and public sector pay have to be linked
Hmmm....
No it's a question - the ? should have been a give away - to the notion that a pay rise is insulting
It was not a question. It's like something I say to my kids if they turn up their tea.
We're going to take a small minority of you and give you a pay cut - on top of the seven you've already had - that's not as bad as the rest of them are getting
Not insulting?
But as has been said many times you can't compare private to public. Teaching, nursing, fire and police services, armed forces.
For myself my take home (teaching Scotland) pay is actually less than 7 years ago. With increases in pension payments and professional body subscriptions.
Is my pay ok? Yes. Has it kept up with the mess education has become? No. Is it better than private sector doing same job? No when I was private sector doing same job I was paid 6%more than in public sector.
Who is taking home the big increases if not people here?
IIt's like something I say to my kids if they turn up their tea.
I understand your response then 😉
Has it kept up with the mess education has become?
In Scotland - I thought education was a priority
Divide and conquer whilst encouraging the gap between the haves and have nots widens.
Once the bottom of the pay range is the rate for the job then it'll be cheaper to privatise. Just saying.
MY company i scrap for pay rises, but industry in general has done well, so its my fault for not swapping jobs.
That's the difference with public vs private sector work. In the private sector you can earn more and increase your wadges usually most effectively by moving employers if your company is shit, usually well above ROI. If you're public sector worker you don't have that option.
Is it better than private sector doing same job? No
Indeed every teacher I know who has left state to go private has said they got a pay rise somewhere between a bit and quite a lot, they get the same pension too.
Bugger, I was thinking about you essel, assuming you were a beneficiary. Sorry to hear that
Cheers THM, appreciated. Typical of Mrs EGF to go & catch a bad dose of bowel cancer & me to get dismissed for looking after her. (as well as having my own 'head up arse' problems)
TBH I'm not missing the public sector (HMPS) one bit & prison staff will never actually be paid their worth.
Sorry to hear that Essel but they probably did you a favour in the long run.
Sorry to hear that and v best wishes to you both
I do remember you not enjoying your job though
Thanks Drac & THM, I really feel for my (ex) colleagues in the Prison Service, a thankless, undervalued, underestimated, secret, very dangerous, stressful to the max, underpaid, understaffed job. (mainly thanks to Grayling, the prick)
It seems that for quite some time I've been the only prison officer on this forum who has had actual 1st hand experience of life (& death) on a residential unit in a jail.
If anyone on here has more experience & claims to deny that prison staff at current staffing levels shouldn't be all on 40k+, then speak up.
@esselgruntfuttock. I wholeheardtly agree, at least with my job they give me a weapon to defend myself from violent attack.
Absolutely Essel I've experienced what you deal with but on a very small level of course when attending incidents in prisons. What they have done to the prison service since privatising is disgusting.
I work in and around the public sector a lot and i am always amazed how little some folks get paid then gobsmacked by the mega salarys that some are on.
We scrapped annual pay rises in our business this year and replaced it with a profit share, I was starting to worry that our base salary level was getting quite high. The team is happy with this as they will get 4 × as much from the profit share than a 3% pay rise. This is not something that can be done in the private sector. We have inflation proofed the profit share by raising the percentage in line with inflation. I think a lot more businesses need to link performance to employee income
So should they reject the offer or T(H)M take it back...
Well firstly as posted above is this actually funded with new money? No by the looks of it so you need to cut to give people a below inflation pay [s]rise[/s] cut.
lets hope none of these people want to buy a house
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/18/uk-house-prices-rise-5-percent
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jun/13/house-price-inflation-six-month-high-ons
There has been a 6 year pay freeze at my work... I am doing better than some having moved jobs but many people are 10-15% down compared to inflation...
People are starting to move on now so either the salaries will rise or the company will cease to trade (or will move more of the operations outside of the U.K.)
Just need for an MP to come up with the idea of outsourcing the civil service to India...
[i]By the people for the people[/i]
[b]Buy the people floor the people[/b]
Ooops, double post.
EGF - I'm still keeping an eye on that house for you in case it ever comes up for sale 😉 who knows what the future holds!
We aren't getting a pay rise - we are getting 1% when inflation is at 2.9%, and we are getting a 1% bonus to be payed over a year, is taxable and calculated using last year's pay scales. The bonus is to come from individual Forces existing budgets, so the exercise hasn't cost the Government a penny.I'm not knocking the extra money (about £450 gross for me and the same for my wife) but rest assured that every copper in the business knows it is a cynical headline grabbing ploy by the Conservatives and there is not an ounce of good will earned by this measure.
It may even save the govt money, since they will get the 20% or whatever back as tax revenue from the million/couple of million pounds or so each force has to find in its budget to pay the 1% bonus-masquerading-as-a-rise.
Yeah a ****ing great offer.
"After years of low inflation and real-terms pay cuts, we've screwed up our one claim to fiscal competence in losing control of inflation so this year you're getting higher inflation and another real-terms pay cut"
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
It seems like there's a change of mood among the unions, but I don't know as I don't work in the public sector whether that translates. Len McCluskey is just itching for a fight I reckon, but then he always is! But other normally cooler heads seem to be suggesting this could be the straw that breaks the camels back
Personally, I think this has been very cynically done. Heavily hinting for about a year that the cap will be dropped, then coming up with this somewhat underwhelming proposal? I can understand the anger
Are we in for a winter of discontent then?
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
Very realistic we already had NHS areas striking the last few years.
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
No not really. I lost a lot of money 2002/3. Plan is just stick to our role map and refuse to do anything outwith that also to remove all goodwill towards the employers.
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
Im sort of public sector - university on charity grant, science has always had crap pay & short contracts but weve been on 1% for the last few years and it is hurting.
Im not sure if there would be a strike here, but work with jr doctors whom, even the tory fanboy among thems hate Jeremy Hunt with a passion, mostly because of the lies he has repeatedly said abou their jobs- I wouldnt be surprised if they and nurses etc were to strike,
also friends with a few police and they range from apathetic, to apoplectic with the government- remarkable to see one of my most right-wing uni mates now retweeting Corbyn stuff!
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
Not me, but there's zero chance my wife would strike, not because she doesn't believe in it, but because she cares about the people she cares for. She primarily treats people in their homes in the last weeks / days of their lives to ensure they're as comfortable and pain free as possible. There wouldn't be nearly enough agency nurses who have enough experience to cover them.
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
Personally, no. I'd never strike but that's just my viewpoint.
From speaking to colleagues the past few days there's definitely a feeling from a lot of them that striking is the only way they will get anywhere with disputes regarding wages.
Strangely enough though one guy I work with was involved in the ambulance service dispute in the 80's and was on strike for the best part of 6 months. As far as he's concerned any strikes like they're talking about now would be pointless and a waste of time as when they went out for 6 months it didn't make any difference so a single day would be even less effective!
I recall the 1989 disputed yup dragged out for 6 months with little result, the workload was vastly different then a huge amount of lives would be put at risk now compared to then.
So if you want a pay rise, leave the office stationary where it is...
Isn't that a tautology?
Could I just ask the public sector workers - who there seem to be a few on here - do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
We've been out six times already since 2010. 5% increase in hours, 0% pay rises and worsened conditions/pensions will do that.
We have a working time agreement it was always a basis that give and take worked from.
Some senior idiot forced the whole staff in for 3hrs last evening (when volunteers would have covered it) quoting the wta. They are about to find a lot of good will has gone and wta works two ways.
Plan is just stick to our role map and refuse to do anything outwith that also to remove all goodwill towards the employers.
I've always thought that working to rule is a much more effective approach than full on strikes. No scope to drag in extra staff because you can't afford it as you are still paying wages, can't blame the workers for striking and just cut the service, but a lot of really important work that people do out of good will doesn't get done which is a real pain in the arse. Staff don't go without their (already poor) wages either. Can't understand why it's a tactic that isn't used far more myself.Some senior idiot forced the whole staff in for 3hrs last evening (when volunteers would have covered it) quoting the wta. They are about to find a lot of good will has gone and wta works two ways.
do you think that there's any appetite for strikes or other industrial action?
I honestly don't think 'we' will. Doctors tried and got no where (and are actually now better off £'s, its just the service that will suffer) nurses I don't think would as they care too much for the patients. Other NHS staff IMO think they get an OK deal.
What is happening though is the clinical staff are taking there skills and experience elsewhere, no need to strike if you can just get better elsewhere.
The bit that people appear to be missing out on from this 1% pay rise is that the government are not funding it. So expect Police numbers and services to get even worse....
Other NHS staff IMO think they get an OK deal.
They don't.
I don't think I would outright strike - it just wouldn't be right in my job - but I would work to rule if there was a collective decision to do so. That would cripple them almost as much as an outright strike to be honest, without completely abandoning people needing help in emergencies.
Yeah, in education I think work to rule would be the best way forward. If nothing else, it would show that half the stuff many teachers are expected to do by management are entirely pointless, don't impact on results, and aren't required by Ofsted.
Is it better than private sector doing same job? No
I'm allegedly doing that now, the reality is I do the job to help kids so it doesnt really happen.
I work on the civilian side of the Police.
Manpower has basically been reduced to the point we can only do our core work and not all the extra jobs we used to do, which are still our remit to do.
All good will that existed has gone and we basically just work to rule now .
Still love my job though and enjoy where I work, just sick of the cuts.
Our machinery is now over eleven years old and now costs more to maintain than it's worth, every week sees us repairing them due to just being worn out.
Councils usually replace this kit before it's five years old even now with all the cuts.
How accurate it may be I cannot say, but from a police facebook page I look at from time to time, it appears there may be a strong appetite among the police and fire service to reject this pay offer on the basis that it will further screw both organisations who cannot afford the 1% bonus from existing budgets.
Can't blame them. What other cuts will be made for services to pay for this? Job loses, reduced cover or other provisions such as MTFA all spring to mind.
FS have rejected "2%" that was linked to taking on more roles. This was unfunded by gov. and comes from existing budget, so more cuts have to be made elsewhere to fund it.
All trails on EMR and other roles not on rolemap are to stop on 18th Sept. If they want us to do EMR train us and pay us properly. Or fund for more ambos.
The FS doesn't have an independent pay review body to set an increase. The last time the gov asked a body to look at pay it buried the report. 🙄
