[Closed] Protecting your property.

I seem to recall several cases in the states where the intended victim was invited into the home and shot then the murderer claimed self/home defense. I am always very suspicious of these cases, and expect the claims to be vigorously investigated. An automatic assumption of "brave and heroic defender" is a very dangerous position to take.

In this case the person doing the shooting reported themselves to the police. The police took them into the nick and then investigated. They were then not charged. The robbers were nicked and charged.

All sounds very sensible to me.

Did you read the link? A chap shot someone and isn't in custody.

I did, yes. You're arguing that in your tough world of guns and shit that human rights count for nothing if someone intrudes into your magical kingdom of you and your property, over there in trendy North Bristol. I'm simply telling you that you're incorrect. How difficult is that to understand? It might be best to let the testosterone levels decrease before answering. They're clearly clouding your judgement.

Not even with a rented stunt cock.

Given the increasingly aggressive nature of your posts, I would have thought your own would reach.

I haven't mentioned guns. I'm not posturing, I haven't been aggressive or macho, I'm stating fact.
You don't seem to understand that I do not care about someones human rights if they are in my home threatening the safety of my family.
It seems that the ever popular Mr Cameron agrees;

"That's why this Government is actually changing the law to toughen the rules on self-defence against burglars, saying that householders do have the right to defend themselves."

saying that householders do have the right to defend themselves.

But this is "motherhood and apple pie" and is already enshined in law and doesnt reinforce what you where saying.

It seems that the ever popular Mr Cameron agrees;

"That's why this Government is actually changing the law to toughen the rules on self-defence against burglars, saying that householders do have the right to defend themselves."

But you're already allowed to defend yourself!

Wrecker - Cameron is talking about nothing, entirely hot air that will never result in anything. He knows this perfectly well - his cabinet is filled with lawyers. Ken Clarke is an evil old Cornish pasty shoe-wearing sod but he's not stupid. These are diversionary tactics to distract people from the economic crisis in the UK.

Householders (like everyone else) already have a right to defend themselves with reasonable force. The "reasonable force" provision is nothing to do with human rights or the Human Rights Act or Europe or Metric Martyrs or any other Daily Mail bobbins. It's the product of several hundred years of common law: it's survived this long because it's a good idea.

The prosecution was required to prove their case beyond reasonable doubt. They did so. Martin was found guilty by a 10 to 2 verdict, with a jury drawn from his community.

Surprised no one's posted this yet:

[img] [/img]

you are not talking about defending yourself you are talking about attacking someone whether you are under threat or not.

Or this: [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/sep/06/judge-burglary-courage-official-investigation ]http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/sep/06/judge-burglary-courage-official-investigation[/url]

you are not talking about defending yourself you are talking about attacking someone whether you are under threat or not.

In my opinion, if someone has forcefully broken into my house with absolute disregard for the law; I'm under threat.

In my opinion, if someone has forcefully broken into my house with absolute disregard for the law; I'm under threat.

Depends; are they faster than me? 😉
Not sure what the dog would make of it though.

or 65 , drunk and they have fallen asleep?
or
They are downstairs and you are upstairs

Fair enough wrecker, but you better be prepared for what happens after

Friend of mine got bust into, and she just shouted "ive called the police" and they legged it. No need for macho bollox

Should I hear a disturbance downstairs in the dead of night, the intruders would be met on the stairs by me holding either my dad's old Kukri or my very sharp Gransfors hatchet. Stern words would be expressed along the lines of I'm higher up with a sharp implement and and further steps forward would be met with some fairly extreme violence, likely resulting in bloodshed. Theirs. 😈

Here's an interesting [url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jan/20/appeal-court-frees-man-burglar-attack ]case[/url]. I guess it illustrates the difference between defending yourself and wreaking revenge.

Not sure of my opinion. I'm generally of a peaceful and liberal persuasion but if I'm brutally honest I'd probably do the same as this guy if put in the same situation.

likely resulting in bloodshed. Theirs.

Wow...that's awesome.

Look, can everyone stop with all the posturing? I'm getting a bit turned on myself now and it's only coming up to half two.

Fair enough wrecker, but you better be prepared for what happens after

No problems.

Friend of mine got bust into, and she just shouted "ive called the police" and they legged it. No need for macho bollox

To turn it the other way round, is it okay for someone to invite you into their house, shoot you, and then get off scot free just by saying you broke in?

Errr no, I don't think so.

Which is why there are criteria for self-defence and why you don't surrender all your rights when you're in someone else's house.

I'm not aware

Apparently, not. It seems others are perceiving it though. Why do you think that is?

This made me laugh a while back: http://nosleeptilbrooklands.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/englishmans-home-is-his-drug-farm.html

The quintessential 'retired, gentle-natured, pillar of the community' grandad shoots dastardly burglars. But the "burtle burtle, can't even defend your property, burtle burtle" from the aforementioned right wing press stopped pretty quickly once a few more details came out..... 😆

Good friends had their house broken into 5 hours after they went on holiday. I went round after the police had finished to fit a new door lock and to have a general tidy up before they got back - talking to someone else there the police had found a very large knife on one of the beds that had been taken from the kitchen.
Another family I know were recently burgled while they were in bed - they were tied up and threatened with a knife. The husband shoots and I bet he now keeps a gun next to the bed (regardless of the law).
I have 4 shotguns and I'm pretty sure if I was woken by intruders and I had the chance to get a gun from the cabinet I most certainly would.

I'm not aware of any "macho bollox",

Gneuine LOL moment in the office there

I hope it was irony

as emsz says shout you have called the police in a loud voice they will leave, defend yourself and your loved ones if you must but dont go and search them out for a fight

re that link dazH. I can see that under the circumstances I could loose the plot but i canot see how my brother and i would do this

The pair returned to the house in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire and chased and caught one of the gang, Walid Salem, a criminal with more than 50 previous convictions. The court heard Salem was then subjected to a "dreadful, violent attack" during which he was hit so hard with a cricket bat that it broke into three pieces, leaving him with brain damage.

Why do you think that is?

ASSumption.

I think a bit of self-awareness is called for - you seem to be lacking it in spades.

Really wrecker?

I've noticed this of guys, lots of you are full of this sort of alpha male nonsense. It's what leads to people being shot at and punched in nightclubs or whatever

It's that " are you looking at my bird" mentality, or the threat of having "possessions" ( and i dont just mean actual stuff) taken away. I think it's not being able to bear having something that's "yours" being taken from you.

Oh diddums; someone disagree with you sweetheart? Here's a big kiss.
Typical STW bullying.

Really wrecker?

I've noticed this of guys, lots of you are full of this sort of alpha male nonsense. It's what leads to people being shot at and punched in nightclubs or whatever

It's that " are you looking at my bird" mentality, or the threat of having "possessions" ( and i dont just mean actual stuff) taken away. I think it's not being able to bear having something that's "yours" being taken from you.

Have you read my posts? I've said that I'm not bothered abour possessions. I'm not getting macho, shouty, aggressive etc. You are a mile wide emsz.

sharkbait - Member

I have 4 shotguns and I'm pretty sure if I was woken by intruders and I had the chance to get a gun from the cabinet I most certainly would.

And that's totally reasonable, and totally legal. It's what you do next that varies. (you may want to, for instance, consider not shooting anyone in the back as they try to escape)

Oh diddums; someone disagree with you sweetheart? Here's a big kiss.

Jesus wept...

Chapeau wrecker [ holds head in disbelief] that will show her/us that you are the victim of bullying and not an easily threatened macho alpha male.

All this talk of macho bollox come from your insecurities, not mine.
You seem to think it's all posturing purely because it's not what you'd do in the situation. Well clearly my judgement is different to yours and whilst you might be happy about this, i can assure you that I am too.
I don't consider myself an alpha anything and haven't said anything for effect. Your failure to comprehend that I was just speaking openly and honestly has manifest itself by just trying to belittle anothers opinion and making underhand comments.

Why do the "enlightended" on here feel the need to "correct" others in such a manner? STW really is full of soppy fragile numpties.

And that's totally reasonable, and totally legal. It's what you do next that varies.

STW really is full of soppy fragile numpties.

Indeed, thankfully, awesomez like yourself balance it out nicely.

re that link dazH. I can see that under the circumstances I could loose the plot but i canot see how my brother and i would do this

I think if you lose the plot bad enough most people would easily be capable of something similar to this, if not worse. That's the thing about losing the plot, especially in extreme situations like this, there's no way of predicting what you would do.

Is that you John Wayne?

Is this me?

Hit them once, hit them very hard and then you have a nice rose bush fertilizer.............

You have your very own category DD

If you break into someones house, you lose your human rights.

And, funnily enough, forcible entry is present in both cases.

Just for balance, I'd like to confidently assert that in this sort of situation I would, without hesitation, curl up into a ball, begin shaking and crying, and, (if still capable of coherent speech) beg for my life while rendering every possible assistance to the robbers in relieving me of whatever possessions they would like to take.

I also reserve the right to soil myself.

BTW, the stuff's insured.

You have your very own category DD

Wow. This is a proud day for me. 😀

reading this thread , i can see the real appeal of a kibbutz......