[Closed] Pro riders - results v reputation etc

Being a "pro" rider isn't just about getting results, it's about coverage and selling bikes/kit.

I think it's fair to say most of the top 50 riders could win a world cup on a given day, if they can put a run together. The guys who can win consistently are the elite of the elite.

The riders who win once, or get close are no less worthy of respect or admiration and their personalities make world cup dh what it is.

I think wyn is the perfect example of offering more than just results , lots of coverage wearing his sponsors logos . Also don't dismiss faircloughs results , he is consistently top 15 and has hit top ten a couple of times in the last couple of years .
I like the guys that seem to be enjoying it , they know they are living the dream and have a blast doing it .I bet Gee falls into that category it's just that he doesn't show that side so much , the impression from the outside is that the athertons live in the gym and are entirely focused on results where as gt or the syndicate seem to be about having fun with your Mates and racing at the weekend , who's to say what's right or which one sells more bikes

Curtis Keene is 8th in the overall this year for the EWS. He's always been fast, just had a few shitty years. Question is why do we have pro riders? It's so their sponsors can use their results and profile to sell bikes. Personality, style, results, they all go hand in hand. Stuttard is the 3rd ranked Brit after Mark Scott and Joe Barnes. His lack of profile may be deliberate for all I know.

I think as long as WC DH is a sport only really watched by other riders there will be jobs for riders who can sell bikes first and win second. Is that such a bad thing? Who wants a field of Athertons, fast determined but because of corp backers like Jeep won't say anything too interesting.

DH is hardly alone in it, about a third of the F1 grid is there because of personal backers rather than on merit per-se.

Genuine question , has anyone over the age of 25 bought a bike based on the fact a favourite pro has ridden one ? When I was 15 I would of killed for a gt lobo because Steve peat rode one but now in my late 30s I would feel a bit of a prat if I bought a canyon because I like Joe Barnes

moonsaballoon - Member
Genuine question , has anyone over the age of 25 bought a bike based on the fact a favourite pro has ridden one ? When I was 15 I would of killed for a gt lobo because Steve peat rode one but now in my late 30s I would feel a bit of a prat if I bought a canyon because I like Joe Barnes

It can certainly help, for example the YT Tues being unproven at dh racing until they signed Gwin, which hugely raised the profile of the company (relatively unknown in the US) and prove the Tues is as fast as the bikes from more established companies. Also signing a bunch of freeriders and having them huck the Tues down the Rampage course also helps alleviate some of the reputation they were getting for frames cracking.

Another example of that being the new Cube DH bike, which was completely new and unproven so they built up a new DH team around it, which has seen some pretty decent results again confirming the bike's a good-un.

That's because as adult you want to believe that you've bought the best bike for you and you haven't been swayed by marketing and you value individuality. As a teen you don't yet have confidence in your individuality so your self worth and personality is based on who and what you associate yourself with.

The marketing message you respond to as an adult will be more subtle and not as blatant as "Peaty rides that so I'll get one"

@moonsaballoon

Rider endorsement / performance / personality is just part of the marketing machine. If we believed we just bought bikes on merit, how many bikes would Santa Cruz (I know we always pick on them) sell, yeah they make good bikes, but so do a lot of manufacturers, more mainstream makers makes bikes that are just as good for less, discount makers like YT and canyon make bikes just as good for a LOT less and there are other makers who make equally as fancy boutique stuff for the same sort of money but don't have nearly the same market share.

If we just bought with our heads Santa Cruz should sell about 4 bikes a year, but they've got the sort of brand that means people will spend 2/3 times what a Capra costs for a Nomad or Bronson, where as Cove who have if anything a bigger history with MTB have withered in the last couple of years.

I'm certainly not immune to marketing , my last two bikes were a bird aeris a and a Orange rx9 road cross type thing . The bird appealed as something about the business seemed to tick a box for me and the Orange was me wanting a road bike but still looking at brands that as a mtber I knew .
It can work the other way though , when Joe Barnes rode an Orange 5 down Ben a'an my mate was quite miffed by it as he reckoned he would never be able to make excuses about not riding his 5 down similar stuff 😀

Another example of that being the new Cube DH bike, which was completely new and unproven so they built up a new DH team around it, which has seen some pretty decent results again confirming the bike's a good-un.

It's not really about selling DH bikes though as that's a very niche end of the market. It's more about making you think of the brand in general for when your next mince-tank like most of the mtb population (and some other types of bike too)

Curtis Keene is 8th in the overall this year for the EWS. He's always been fast, just had a few shitty years. Question is why do we have pro riders? It's so their sponsors can use their results and profile to sell bikes. Personality, style, results, they all go hand in hand. Stuttard is the 3rd ranked Brit after Mark Scott and Joe Barnes. His lack of profile may be deliberate for all I know.

Keene is going well this year, but I knew of him because of the cringe worthy On Track videos before I'd ever seen him featuring at the sharp end.

I hadn't noticed how well Scott was going to be honest, and I somehow forgot about Joe Barnes, which is ironic considering since I was referring to riders known for their edits. I don't know anything about Stuttard, but he seemed disappointed at his lack of recognition in his comments Pinkbike.

Genuine question , has anyone over the age of 25 bought a bike based on the fact a favourite pro has ridden one ?

Not directly, but seeing the likes of Ratboy and Josh Lewis going big on 5010s and bigging up how good a bike it was certainly helped it become a consideration for me when I had previously dismissed it for not having enough travel.

If we believed we just bought bikes on merit, how many bikes would Santa Cruz

I think you've picked on the wrong ex-boutique brand, they'd sell loads based on merit, assuming you mean winning races. Their bikes have won at least one WC DH race for 8 out of the the last 10 years, been on the podium a lot more often, won the series overall more than once, won the world champs more than once.

Add to that likeable people who seem to be having a good time and I think you've got a very marketable product.

This thread is the perfect answer to the 'Why no DH in the Olympics?' thread; it's the whole 'but those guys are so much cooler than those guys' thing. It's less a sport and more a carefully structured ad campaign with cool nicknames.

Well that and the fact it has the most skilled bike riders on the planet.

...who are ranked by the fans in terms of how much fun they look like they're having when not competing.

it's the whole 'but those guys are so much cooler than those guys' thing. It's less a sport and more a carefully structured ad campaign with cool nicknames.

Don't forget the psikk threads, dood! No aero when you can rock teh gnar pyjamas, bro!

[img] ?1339194708[/img]

...who are ranked by the fans in terms of how much fun they look like they're having when not competing.

I'm pretty sure thay are ranked by how fast they are. The best aren't always the most popular in any sport.

Fish in a barrel CF, fish in a barrel.

Lets have a gravity assisted sport and wear the least aero clothing we can because fashion.

( I actually like DH, I go and watch whenever I can and admire the skills on display but if a sport doesn't take itself seriously, why should anyone else?)

...who are ranked by the fans in terms of how much fun they look like they're having when not competing.

I'm pretty sure thay are ranked by how fast they are. The best aren't always the most popular in any sport. I'm sure footballers would perform better in full lycra too.

wrecker - Member
Well that and the fact it has the most skilled [s]bike[/s] downhill riders on the planet.

FTFY 😉

I'm pretty sure thay are ranked by how fast they are. The best aren't always the most popular in any sport.

Let me help you:

...who are ranked[b][u] by the fans[/u] [/b]in terms of how much fun they look like they're having when not competing.

I'll be having none of your tomfoolery david!

...who are ranked by the fans in terms of how much fun they look like they're having when not competing.

Let me help you; they are ranked [b]by the UCI[/b] according to how fast they are.

Yes dear, but in terms of the popularity of the riders, there is a social/lifestyle/cool guy element which overshadows their actual achievements, which I believe was the original point of the thread.

It's a great niche part of the sport, but it will never amount to much in wider terms until it grows up a bit.

I'm sure footballers would perform better in full lycra too.

Football isn't a time trial.
Downhill racing is
Skin suits are proven to be faster
They are against UCI DH rules because it didn't fit the 'image' the sport wanted to portray.

(bike) trials is a great example of this.

hans rey moved towards freeriding/ adventure riding for magazine piece - ridden for GT for almost 30 years.
martyn ashton (world champion + multiple brit champ) gave up competing to focus on demos/ magazine pieces.
chris akrigg - time national champs - on record that competitive trials 'had run it's course' best known for his 'messing around' videos - he's not even riding a competitive sport now.
danny mackaskil - has he even ever competed? does anyone care.

all of these riders are promoting the sport doing 'edits' rather than winning medals/ rainbow stripes.

There is in most sports is there not sweetheart? Some people just identify with certain types.
I see bryceland is getting some stick, mainly because he's a lad. People forget that he won the whole bloody thing not so long ago and is still not fully recovered from a horrendous injury.
If anyone is deserving of stick, it's Fairclough who is all style over substance. But he sells kit. I'm sure Scott love winning races, but they love shifting units more.

Yes dear, but in terms of the popularity of the riders, there is a social/lifestyle/cool guy element which overshadows their actual achievements, which I believe was the original point of the thread.

Some proof;
Cedric.
[img] [/img]
Awesome rider, cooler than a penguin's pantry, but results? Pah. Who needs 'em!
[img] [/img]

As above, I like DH. A lot. Great to watch, but it needs to decide if it's an image fest or a sport. If being [u]fastest [/u]is the most important and [i][u]if[/u][/i] it's a course where aero would make you even half a second [u]faster[/u] then surely, as before, is it about being the fastest?

There's certainly a few riders in factory teams who do little to deserve their position. I'm not going to name names as I'm sure they're decent guys and do loads for their respective brands but a single (fluke?) World Cup win and they've had 5 years of being "potential contenders".

For a long time Danny H was one of them and he's turned it around bigtime this year and is finally living up to [i]that[/i] run

As above, I like DH. A lot. Great to watch, but it needs to decide if it's an image fest or a sport. If being fastest is the most important and if it's a course where aero would make you even half a second faster then surely, as before, is it about being the fastest?

Samesies. It's fine as it is IMO. I'm sure the riders think so aswell. It's just people on forums who seem desperate to get it in the Olympics/on SPOTY etc. etc.

There's certainly a few riders in factory teams who do little to deserve their position. I'm not going to name names as I'm sure they're decent guys and do loads for their respective brands but a single (fluke?) World Cup win and they've had 5 years of being "potential contender

You mean rob Warner?

but results? Pah. Who needs 'em!

I'd toddle off and take a look at his early years (including junior) results before you allude to Cedric making his living without needing results.

As above, I like DH. A lot. Great to watch, but it needs to decide if it's an image fest or a sport.

For someone who professes to like it a lot, you sure don't seem to know very much about it or many of the competitors.

I wonder how many of the riders have different images and level of profile in thier home countries / other countries? The UK population (and therefore bike sales I presume) is pretty small...

I am well aware of his early race career, very promising junior. Four or five world cup wins? His more recent, and arguably more lucrative, riding career has been more based on image than results. Good for him.

with Sam Hill, Gee (both past it but on big teams)

No doubt it's been said but either of these could win any race on any given day.

and arguably more lucrative,

Do go on?
I'd love to hear all about this.

CaptainFlashheart

Some proof;
Cedric.

Awesome rider, cooler than a penguin's pantry, but results? Pah. Who needs 'em!

Do you really need reminded of Gracia's achievements? Numerous WC and 4X wins. 3rd place in WC overall. 3rd place in 4x overall world cup while competing at DH as well. Oh and won the Rampage, which in his own words is what made him (financially) and cemented his reputation.

. Great to watch, but it needs to decide if it's an image fest or a sport. If being fastest is the most important and if it's a course where aero would make you even half a second faster then surely, as before, is it about being the fastest?

I'm struggling to think of any sport where the regulatory bodies don't exert any control. Am I wrong in saying the UCI enforces extremely strict rules on the shape, weight and overall design of roadbikes so they retain some kind of recognizable look and continuity of design?

https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider2956/cedric-gracia/results/

Last WC Win in 2011. One of four WC wins.

Rampage isn't a race.

GRacia will never be remembered for winning races; he'll be remembered for stylish riding, pratting about and suicide no handers on the step down at fort bill

he'll be remembered for stylish riding, pratting about and suicide no handers on the step down at fort bill

All of which was utterly awesome! He's a great rider, but his reputation is, as you rightly point out, not borne out of his results.

CaptainFlashheart

https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider2956/cedric-gracia/results/

Last WC Win in 2011. One of four WC wins.

2nd place 9 times. 3rd place 7 times. Oh and there was that Junior World Championship he won.

Rampage isn't a race.

It's not, but it's an extremely prestigious (and very high profile) mountain bike competition that he won.

Gracia invested his money very wisely well before 2011.
I'm still interested in hearing all about this

arguably more lucrative, riding career

he has going on?

Picking through some stuff

Who wants a field of Athertons, fast determined but because of corp backers like Jeep won't say anything too interesting.

Have you heard Rachel being interviewd? She doesn't have much time for some of the UCI and organisers. Her position and security of sponsors means she can speak ehr mind and is very interesting to listen to.

I'm pretty sure thay are ranked by how fast they are. The best aren't always the most popular in any sport. I'm sure footballers would perform better in full lycra too.

Apart from the rediculous there was nowhere for any protection, younger riders were hitting big tracks in lycra and that just isn't safe. The uniform baggy (not actually that baggy) means pads are easier to wear and the clothing offers some degree of protection. See how much skin got lost in a couple of falls in the TdF that would be a few skin suits per race for some of these guys.

GRacia will never be remembered for winning races; he'll be remembered for stylish riding, pratting about and suicide no handers on the step down at fort bill

And being a top guy.
He came up to Keswick on his tyre tour, rode, gapped chatted and rode with the kids, did stuff nobody else could. Met his this year, one of the nicest guys around. Again everyone who wanted a pic got one, he took the local kids off for a ride/skills session. Rode with loads of people hung out talked bikes and life and joined us for dinner.

Rampage isn't a race.

It's not, but it's an extremely prestigious (and very high profile) mountain bike competition that he won.

Exactly it's a huge event with a massive profile.

Of the Pro's who are well known there are those who are just the winningest 😉 Peaty and Minnaar for instance. Rachel and T-Mo - who again is one of the nices people in the sport.

Reputation/Presence is about what you can offer on top of any results - seeing Fairclough do this
[url= https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/705/22267008146_32d320818a_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://c3.staticflickr.com/1/705/22267008146_32d320818a_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/zVEeKy ]Mod-2812[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/mikewsmith/ ]Mike Smith[/url], on Flickr
beats a lot of WC podiums, also check out the sections he has in a lot of recent films, hanging with his mates being just like you or I (except exceeding talented on a bike)

Some people are either the kind who are naturally makretable/popular or work out how to. If you want to last 20 years in MTB then you need to work on more than just riding.

edit just spied this

Gracia invested his money very wisely well before 2011.
I'm still interested in hearing all about this

arguably more lucrative, riding career

he has going on?

Not sure, he is on the SC list for certain, he gets flown around a lot for Enduro but was planning to scale it back this year. He owns bits of Andora and the bike park I believe and was a walking tourist board for that!! He also has a heated drive to save the snow shovelling - he's certainly got something right!! I would have to say of a generation him and Peaty probably cracked it, last of the big contract era, invested wisely and both thinking/looking to the future.