So, I started a thread some time ago (long enough that it's now closed:
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/charity-bashers-assemble-for-the-real-scandal-private-schools ]http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/charity-bashers-assemble-for-the-real-scandal-private-schools[/url] ) but to save you the read, the pertinent points I'm picking up on here are:
Most private schools are registered as charities.
One of the significant tax advantages is that they get a mandatory relief of 80% on their business rates.
One of the egregious features of this is that state schools aren't charities and have to find 100% of their business rates out of their budgets.
So, this is now set to change in Scotland. The mandatory business rates relief is going to be removed from them. It's fair to say that the private schools sector in Scotland is not best pleased with this.
I, on the other hand, am very pleased about this.
You don't have to be politically opposed to the existence of private, fee paying schools to think that, if state schools have to pay their rates, their private equivalents should also have to contribute on an equal basis.
Well, I thought it was interesting, anyway. More comment from different sides of the debate can be found here:
[url= https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/12139/scottish-private-schools-finally-pay-appropriate-taxation ]sauce[/url]
[i]if state schools have to pay their rates[/i]
Interestingly, Special Schools don;t have to pay rates around here (not sure if that is national) but, as a consequence, they're not allowed to hire their facilities out.
It's a great move - the whining from certain commentators about poor hardworking upper-middle-class families who now won't be able to afford both a private school and a pony have been hilarious.
Next target: all the tax reliefs for hunting estates.
State schools paying their rates is surely a bit of a circular thing though, as they are mostly funded by the local council. So they basically pay the rates to the authority who then give it back to them as part of their budget.
Beware the law of unintended consequences.
They should get the results they deserve from such a myopic policy. Good job it's not a party that emphasise education.
Next target: all the tax reliefs for hunting estates.
THM, doesn't like it; that probably makes it a good thing.
That will be a truly joyous day!
Who'd have thought equality of treatment would be a myopic policy.
THM, doesn't like it; that probably makes it a good thing.That will be a truly joyous day!
+1
Do you also have an issue with Universities?
(because AFAIK they are also registered as charities in the same way that private schools are).
While we are on it, please can it be applied to Universities?
As an example: Edinburgh University had £909million income last year, leaving £87m after financial investments, capital investments etc, and are sat on financial investments of £171m.
They do not pay business rates.
In Scotland, the top 20 charities by income and resources are dominated by Universities:
University Of Edinburgh
University Of Glasgow Court
University Of Strathclyde
University Of Dundee
University Of Aberdeen
University Of St Andrews
Heriot-Watt University
The Glasgow Housing Association Limited
Culture & Sport Glasgow
Edinburgh Napier University
Glasgow Caledonian University
The Church Of Scotland
University Of Stirling
Court of the University of the West of Scotland
The Robert Gordon University
Historic Environment Scotland
University of the Highlands and Islands
Mercy Corps Europe
SRUC
Glasgow School Of Art
I just lost a piece of work as a University (in England) didn't want to pay the rates we as a small charity charge for our training services, at significantly less than that University charges itself out at, for work their staff do not have the expertise to deliver, and while sat on £700m of financial investments....
Do you also have an issue with Universities?
University education is free in Scotland, so everyone benefits - unlike with private schools.
Do you also have an issue with Universities?
The issue is with (lack of) equality not eduction....
Beware the law of unintended consequences.They should get the results they deserve from such a myopic policy. Good job it's not a party that emphasise education.
Hasn't it pretty much always been the case that once you correct for selective nature of private schools that the state system offers a better education that private?
sharkbait - MemberDo you also have an issue with Universities?
No, because they are free.
Hasn't it pretty much always been the case that once you correct for selective nature of private schools that the state system offers a better education that private?
Yup. Many years ago, when I was going to secondary school, my parents looked at a private school in Glasgow. It was a dump - the library was tiny and badly equipped, the sports facilities were not great, but they emphasised the 'quality' of people who went there and the connections they had to get kids good careers or into Oxbridge.
I'm very glad I went to the good local secondary instead.
if state schools have to pay their rates, their private equivalents should also have to contribute on an equal basis.
It wouldn't be a level playing field though would it. Schools are given a budget, and part of that budget is to pay for rates.
I pay my council tax so I pay for state schools I also then decide to send my son to private school. Isnt that a win win?
At my sons private school and do not see any of the teachers driving around in posh cars / living in posh houses, in fact I understand that wages are less than state schools. Private schools are not run for profit!
So really where is this detrimental to anyone?
THM, doesn't like it; that probably makes it a good thing.
+1.
THM is now on my list of convenient litmus tests when I can't be bothered to look into the minutiae of an issue.
If THM, ninfan, chewkw, enfht and Nigel Farage are up in arms about something then that must mean it is something good that should be encouraged.
Have they stopped the £9k/year tuition fees then? Yay 🙂No, because they are free.
[i]Private schools are not run for profit![/i]
they are run for 'a surplus' which sounds far less capitalistic but there's still targets set for Bursars etc to meet over and above their running costs.
Hasn't it pretty much always been the case that once you correct for selective nature of private schools that the state system offers a better education that private?
Oh, the ironing!
Private schools are not run for profit!
Then you have to ask yourself what they [i]are [/i]run for.
And the answer is much more worrying than if they were just run for profit.
At my sons private school and do not see any of the teachers driving around in posh cars / living in posh houses, in fact I understand that wages are less than state schools.
My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she'd be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale
If THM, ninfan, chewkw, enfht and Nigel Farage are up in arms about something then that must mean it is something good that should be encouraged.
You forgot to add Trump to the list 😉
State schools 'business' rates are paid to the Local Authority by the Local Authority.
Perhaps the Local Authorities should reimburse the Private schools the £17k+ per pupil per year subsidy that a state education would otherwise cost the taxpayer?
There's a few others that you could add to the list but I think Danny nailed it.
My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she'd be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale
I thought the lowest pay scale in teaching was £22,467 rising to £33,160 after 6 years ?!?
And the answer is much more worrying than if they were just run for profit.
Go on please expand, maybe I am being naïve? The modest 'profit' made by my sons school get used to reinvest in facilities etc.
Have they stopped the £9k/year tuition fees then? Yay
Obvious troll etc...was mine the only post you read?
Love the idea that Uni education is free. Politicians must love the idea that people fall for that
If your devolved government wants to harm your education system - which already has poor equality records - then you shouldn’t like it too ducks. But perhaps the rush to post was too much 😉 ?
teamhurtmore - Member
Good job it's not a party that emphasise education.
On the contrary- this is intended to correct Scotland's long-standing educational problems, ignored by a succession of administrations. By doing this, the SNP are [i]emphasising[/i] education, something your anti-Scots blinkers won't let you see.
Its a good move, and should be adopted UK-wide. We all benefit from a well-educated populace, and absenting yourself from your responsibility to others should be outlawed.
duckman - Member
sharkbait - Member
Do you also have an issue with Universities?No, because they are free.
The number of Free places available at Scottish Uni's is capped by ScotGov.
'Good job it's not a party that emphasise[b]s[/b] education' FTFY
No, because they [s]are free[/s] cost the taxpayer millions and millions.
FTFY
Private schools are not run for profit!
Tell that to some I have worked with this year, here and abroad.
My Mrs works as an unqualified teacher in a local private school. If she was full time she'd be on £20k more than me as a state school teacher at the top of the pay scale
If she were [b]qualified[/b], then she could work in a state school in Scotland, and would be on that pay scale.
£17k+ per pupil per year that a state education would otherwise cost the taxpayer
Sauce?
We all benefit from a well-educated populace, and absenting yourself from your responsibility to others should be outlawed.
Sorry what do you mean? Are you suggesting that a kid going to private school is harmful to the rest of society?
No it’s political dogma. Makes zero economic sense and does not do what is says on the tin. Classic SNP divergence tactic though - the Nationalist party that is addicted to self national harm
But your schools and your devolved government - their record on education speaks for itself. Little details tha Danny can avoid but big ones for those who actually care about education.
One unintended consequence could be the effect on language schools. My partner works for one which has charitable status and I assume many of them are the same. Here in Brighton and where she lives in Eastbourne they are an important part of the local economy and in monetary terms are effectively exporters. If a similar change were to happen here then the result could well be a significant blow to the local economy. It's not just the fees students pay but all the accomodation costs usually going to local families and all the other ancillary spending by students when they are here.
Even by your "standards" that was some spin, THM. Maybe you should have a sit down,you must be dizzy?
Yup, apologies, £4k - £8.5k.
[url= http://www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/how-much-per-pupil-funding-will-your-school-get ]http://www.sec-ed.co.uk/news/how-much-per-pupil-funding-will-your-school-get[/url]
No it’s political dogma. Makes zero economic sense and does not do what is says on the tin. Classic SNP divergence tactic though - the Nationalist party that is addicted to self national harm
Yeah we should all be doing our best to maintain what is in effect a partial subsidy of private education...
their record on education speaks for itself
Sauce?
Are you suggesting that a kid going to private school is harmful to the rest of society?
well the eton mafia seem to be having a good go. 😉
If you think education costs a lot then you should consider the cost of ignorance.
Do the maths on the opposite - then revert. The answer will have poor ducks spinning for ever. But if you guys want Scottish kids to suffer, it’s your choice.
Seems the wrong way round to me.
The real question should have been - why the hell are we charging state school business rates?
Genuine question - are business rates chargable on law courts, local government buildings etc?
Anyway business rates are small beer to the whole equation. Eton saves £500,000 in business rate being a charity - thats £384 per student and they have some of the most impressive and extensive buildings and grounds of any school and that's in a part of the country of particularly high business rates. It's the VAT that makes a difference - to the tune of about £6K a year per pupil on the school fee.
Do the maths on the opposite
I suspect that this is not possible otherwise you would have shown your working to make your argument.
