[Closed] Private ownership of firearms

7. Again working gun exemption covers this...how many other guns are used for this?

What would count as a 'working gun' though?. The nature of rural jobs being have causal rather than full time. I understand your sentiment, but I think too a large extent this would be one of those things that would be incredibly difficult to produce useful further legislation on.

I have still to see any USE for a gun apart from killing things.

I very much doubt you will...

I have still to see any USE for a gun apart from killing things. Target shooting could easily be done with lazers or similar

And mountain biking could all be done at trail centres, all the same, innit 😉

Not necessarily. My hands are always to...er...hand. I have to switch the safety off, cock and squeeze a trigger when using a gun. I could probably punch you before I could shoot you, all being even.

I don't recall seeing any murder rampages being carried out with bare hands...

the 5000m Drive By and the 100m Honour Killing.

Excellent! 🙂

Dogbert - the only USE for guns is killing things - target shooting is a pastime it does not have any utility - and I think that law was absolutely right and proper.

My hobby was taken away from me through no fault of my own, I enjoyed it and spent a lot of money on firearms, ammunition and travelling costs for my hobby. When it all kicked off after Dunblane I was herded into the same "nutter with a gun" bracket as Thomas Hamilton by a baying media and anyone with an opinion. And when the ban took effect, i got a paltry compensation payout from a government who made their changes based on knee-jerk reaction and lies perpetrated by the secretary of the club Thomas Hamilton was a part of because he too had been backed into a corner.

This isn't intended to be antagonistic, but purely from my stance of personal ignorance, but what does air-pistol target shooting not have that firearm target shooting does?

Whats wrong with killing things?

Vegetarian are you TJ 🙄

look - something thats been killed:
[img] [/img]

TJ come shoot some clays, no blood or death.... we even have tea and cake.

Me, 13 minutes ago

Here we go. We'll be arguing over the definition of "use" in a moment...

TJ, just now...

Dogbert - the only USE for guns is killing things - target shooting is a pastime it does not have any utility - and I think that law was absolutely right and proper.

lol I was right. Come on TJ, you can be so transparent sometimes 😆

better community mental health services - maybe walk in clinics where you could get advice or support, or just a listening ear Like you see with Samaritans, Mind etc.

Yeah - but you'd think TJ already had access to that sort of thing, and still he argues.

Zulu-Eleven - Member
BTW - rumour control has it that his licenced 'firearms' as opposed to 'shotguns' were FAC air weapons (ie, more than 12ft lbs ME - by way of comparison a deer rifle puts out at least 1750 ft lbs muzzle energy)

So, that sort of ****s the "armoury of lethal weapons" argument up

POSTED 18 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

I had a FAC rated air rifle (40 ft lbs) and believe you me that was a lethal weapon. Hence Section One status. Muzzle energy levels versus the human body becomes academic very early on.

Don't have the energy to go through all the posts, but my two penneth.

Should gun-ownership be revoked - no. If someone wants to get hold of a weapon to kill someone they will, if they didn't have a gun, the nearest kitchen knife.

There are a lot of legitmate reasons for owning a gun including farming, protection and in my case sport.

Zulku - killing things for the pleasure of killing as you admit you do is wrong - killing things for eating is a different matter.

There haven't actually been that many murder rampages, Ransos, but I'm sure hands were involved somewhere along the line.

But seriously, your argument is similar to the knife issue. Are we to ban those as well with the inclusion of skinning knives ? A few nutjobs go around shooting folk and you would like to see everyone banned for their stupidity/mental/moral issues. Think of the same attitude applied to other aspects of life and in particular things you're involved in and you'll se the flaw in your point of view. Take a ****er of a cyclist that hops on and off the curb, carving up old ladies and ripping kids faces off - ban all cyclists because of them...?

Zulu - killing things for the pleasure of killing as you admit you do is wrong - killing things for eating is a different matter.

Why, do you not gain pleasure from eating meat TJ?

I know shed loads of vegans who don't feel the need to have things killed for them to eat - its just blood lust innit, no necessity involved, just about pleasure.

NAIL ON HEAD by IanMunro. Shooting is great fun. But let's get the power down.

We've reached the point where posters can't be bothered reading what's gone before and are duplicating.

End of thread's useful life I think. Where's the bolt gun?

stilltortopise - I did s**** when I saw your post - however its not my fault people are claiming target shooting has utility 🙂

Dogbert - the only USE for guns is killing things - target shooting is a pastime it does not have any utility - and I think that law was absolutely right and proper.

Cycling's only USE is transport, cycling for anything else is a pastime and does not have a utility

This isn't intended to be antagonistic, but purely from my stance of personal ignorance, but what does air-pistol target shooting not have that firearm target shooting does?

Not antagonistic at all - The type of shooting I took part in could not be replicated by using an air pistol at that time. I'm sure they could now but I'm not going back down the route of taking up a hobby that may have a high risk of being banned, primarily why I didn't take up clay pigeon or go back to smallbore rifle target shooting.

Comparing guns to cars is completely spurious. Please stop.

Cycling's only USE is transport, cycling for anything else is a pastime and does not have a utility

Yup - you get the point.

You could stil have tested your skill with air guns

About as sensible as being forced to keep your kitchen knives at the local restaurants, or your mountain bike at the nearest trailcentre.

Erm, so unless you live on a large property/farm, why would you actually need a firearm in your home?

Crap analogy; you do cooking in your kitchen, you ride your bike from your house. Do you do shooting inside your family home?

Target shooting could easily be done with lazers or similar

He's got a point you know. You could have a blank-firing gun for the sound and feel if you really wanted. Certainly ample technology to do away with the use of bullets in most cases.

I shoot in the local woods, Should register the woods for me to store my gun? Or leave it with the gamekeeper who all of a sudden would be holding 45+ shotguns

Are the woods private land? Then they could be stored in a secure location on that property.

I have got the pro hunters on here have admitted hunting is all about the pleasure of killing

He's got another good point you know. You know some of you are frustrated wannabe Rambos. Given your Keyboard Warriorness, I'd say there's probbly good reason for you [i]not[/i] to own firearms. You can't control yourselves on here, so propbbly not the right sort of people to own firearms. 😐

Sorry, but it's true.

Comparing guns to cars is completely spurious. Please stop.

Why?

They're both fairly innocuous lumps fo metal if used properly fulfil great utility and pleasure, and if used improperly kill can kill people - we don't NEED cars, but we as a society accept them, and they kill a lot more people than guns do!

You're just an argumentative prick, TJ. I wouldn't be so smug given the image you project of yourself around this place.

Boring at best...

Bullshit semi automatics with 5 round magazines maximum

How many megawatts though SD-253? 😉

Original link failed I think.

TJ it was a link to the Mark Bonini case. He murdered a toddler with an air rifle back in 2005. In Glasgow.

Insults cos you lost the debate?

hahahahahahahahaha

Classic TJ

I'm still waiting for you to tell me whats 'wrong' with killing stuff...

Hear that - I use a gun to kill animals, I'm legally allowed to do so, I have the permission of the landowner, I have been independelty tested and qualified, and I provide a service to him in both crop protection and enhancement of biodiversity.

whats wrong with that TJ?

Zulu -
Are you so morally deficient that you cannot understand why civilised people abhor killing for pleasure without utility?

No TJ. There was never going to be a winner/loser stance in this because we don't hold the power to sway a decision concerning the law either way.

It's because you argue for the sake of it. You turn the debate into semantics rather than have an intelligent discussion, that in my book makes you a prick for want of a better term.

Ransos' question is far better than anything you put forward - what would be the way forward from this point as regards determining who should be allowed to hold a license.

Why arent you vegetarian than TJ.

You don't NEED to eat meat, there's no utility fulfilled in raising and killing cows when you could just as easily eat vegetables and be perfectly (more?) healthy doing so!

You talk about 'morals' - what makes eating meat raised on a farm morally acceptable?

abhor killing for pleasure

That is your assumption. You don't just throw what you kill away!!

What about killing for food.

I go big game hunting once a year and duck/pheasant hunting about twice a year, eat everything I kill. That is much better than the food you go and buy at your local Supermarket.

Ransos question skirts around the edges and does not get to the crucial point - the only people that should be allowed to hold guns of any sort are those with a real use for them. Thats the way forward.

People like Zulu who kill for fun should never be allowed near a gun

You're just an argumentative prick, TJ.

Oh dear. 🙁

Insults cos you lost the debate?

Looks like it. Very quick to lose control and become angry, certainly. A bit worrying, I'd say. Hope they don't own firearms....

Hear that - I use a gun to kill animals, I'm legally allowed to do so, I have the permission of the landowner, and I provide a service to him in both crop protection and enhancement of biodiversity

Yeah, but you do like killing things, don't you? Let's be honest? Don't try pretending it's purely about 'crop protection and enhancement of biodiversity', cos that's crap. Shooting things satisfies a primal urge within you. At least have the bottle to admit it.

Knowing myself as well as I do, I would not allow myself, in my current state of mind, to own any sort of firearm, cos of the potential for serious bad stuff. I think this is called 'being responsible'.

TJ's stimulated a proper juicy debate. Lots of attempts at self-justification, but not a lot of consideration for the reasonable points TJ has made. I suspect this will be another thread where people gang up on one person, and ignore any reasonable questions.

.

Read this:

TandemJeremy - Member
chillout FFS - you seem to get so wound up about stuff. IIRC this is at least the third post about your private road. there was somone parking on it and claiming bits with white stones. you couldn't get it agreed to repair it. FFS one person hasn't paid up straight away? Get a grip. Save your angst for important things

Then re-read this thread

LHS - big game hunting?

TandemJeremy - Member
Zulu -
Are you so morally deficient that you cannot understand why civilised people abhor killing for pleasure without utility?
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

Are the woods private land? Then they could be stored in a secure location on that property.

My guess is that this will be more problematic as you've then got an unsupervised structure in a rural location full of guns that everyone in the vicinity knows about.
Also it doesn't really appear to provide a solution to the perceived problem because the same people still have access to the same guns, they just have to go for a 10 minute drive first.
I guess it could be argued that 10 minutes would be 10 minutes that would allow them to calm down, or by announcing "I'm off to get me guns to shoot you, don't go anywhere" might save the odd life, but I suspect would be offset by all the local criminals knowing which rural building to break into to pick up a stash of guns and ammo from.

Shooting things satisfies a primal urge within you. At least have the bottle to admit it.

elf - he has on another thread

Yeah, but you do like killing things, don't you? Let's be honest?

Yes, whats wrong with that exactly?

People like Zulu who kill for fun should never be allowed near a gun

Why, whats wrong with killing things for fun? why is it any different from killing things for meat?

You've still not answered this

the only people that should be allowed to hold guns of any sort are those with a real use for them. Thats the way forward.

That's exactly what the law does, as it stands today. Unless you want to practice target pistol, obviously.

LHS - big game hunting?

Deer, Elk etc.

LHS - I think the big game thing may blow TJ's final O-ring 😆

Immediately thought you were smoking the Big Five.

Dogbert - you think I am wound up?

I think this is an important issue and it amuses me to see people attempting to defend the indefensible with such contorted logic.

guns are a tool for killing things - that is their sole purpose