[Closed] Positive spin on tory win...?

Positive spin?

after last nights result, things can only get better

The best thing is it's now blatantly obvious that our first past the post system is broken.

UKIP voter? They're the only party who would have benefited.

I can do a postgraduate at the expense of the taxpayer.

Buohahahahahah.

😆

UKIP voter? They're the only party who would have benefited.

Conservatives won almost 50 percent of the seats with 36 percent of the vote no?

Whilst Labour won 35 percent of the seats with 30 percent of the vote.

So Labour would have done better as well, no?

Industry is probably more worried about Britain leaving Europe right now.

UKIP voter? They're the only party who would have benefited.

So the question is, if the Labour party had managed to choose the right Milliband would they be forming a Government today?

Ed's got the worst of both worlds with Scotland telling labour to GTFO, a message endorsed by the English floating voter with respect to the possibility of any SNP participation in government.

The best thing is it's now blatantly obvious that our first past the post system is broken.

Libdems made this clear a long time back but doesn't mean our current system is wrong. Similarly, at the last election there was lots of info about how if Labour and the Tories got the same %age of votes Labour would get more seats due to the way the constituencies are.

The Flying Ox - Member

Industry is probably more worried about Britain leaving Europe right now.

As evidenced by the FTSE this morning. The Flying Ox - Member

'The City' likes consistency and fears change - the markets would have reacted the same way if Labour had Won in 2010 and again last night.

UKIP voter? They're the only party who would have benefited.

Not sure that is a fair conclusion.

As interesting as the FT's graph is:

[img] :large[/img]

It doesn't [i]really[/i] compare FPTP to PR. It compares our Regional FPTP system to a national FPTP system.

We can't really say how a PR vote would have gone since
A) people may vote differently under a PR system if they feel smaller parties have more of a chance
B) parties may field more or less candidates based on how they think they'll do
C) we don't know what people's second or third choices would be (if we used a system that considers those).

. Similarly, at the last election there was lots of info about how if Labour and the Tories got the same %age of votes Labour would get more seats due to the way the constituencies are.

Boundary changes will fix that now.

As evidenced by the FTSE this morning.

The FTSE was more reacting to the fact that we have a clear majority and all know who's going to be running the country rather than potentially having weeks of uncertain coalition negociations ahead of us.

They have always liked the certainty of a clear result, (for either party) the concerns over the in/out referendum remain.

BNP vote reduced by a bit. And by a bit, I mean 99.7%

My shares in US Frackin' Conglomerates are already up several points.

BNP vote reduced by a bit. And by a bit, I mean 99.7%

Wonder where they went....

My shares in US Frackin' Conglomerates are already up several points.

Hope the well doesn't end up next door to you 😉

Positives from last night for me:

The BNP polled less votes nationally than the Monster Raving Loony Party, the fact that collectively twice as many people in the UK chose good humour and silliness over hate and fear makes me happy (although deep down I know where the old school BNP voters put their cross this year).

It's the end for Nick Clegg, which is a shame, I think he's actually a decent bloke - but he made a deal with the devil for the deputy PM role - his leaving means the LD can rebuild themselves from the ground up - if they had done better, or worse won enough seats to be needed to continue as they were, they would have acted as the Tory blame bucket for another 5 years.

The SNP did so well that Westminster MUST now follow through with the promises they made to win the Independence Vote and more power and more financial control taken out of London and the South East is good in my book, even if it's not going my way.

UKIP only won one seat and Farage stepped down, so their power amounts to Sweet Fanny Adams, but as much as I can't stand them, no one can look at a party with 3.8m votes and dismiss them - The Tories would be fools to assume that with Farage gone they'll go away, they seem to gain support from people disillusioned by Politics as much as Euro Sceptics, a few of my friends on FB voted for them, as I asked why and they couldn't tell me, other than they couldn't stand another member of the 'ruling classes' being in charge again.

On a more personal and completely selfish level, Wales had a massive shift to the Tories last night, and my constituency went that way, but it's still a very marginal seat - for many years the Tories would usual win next to sod all seats in Wales, so they gave no shits about us - why divert infrastructure or resources away from England into Wales when whatever you do, they won't vote for you - well, they think we might now.

Finally, as much as I thought Ed Milliband was an okay leader, he wasn't great and he didn't have the gravitas or charisma to get the job done - as hard as it was with the media (and their billionaire owners) sticking the knife in every chance they got - last night can only be seen as a great defeat, worse than the stats even show - Ed and Labour as a whole won less seats than Gordon Brown did at the height of the financial crisis, when they couldn't stop Tony Blair from gawping at every camera he could find - Balls is gone too - it's time for a new set of faces, a completely new Shadow Government.

I just hope the NHS survives until 2020, it's a long time.

In a PR system* all those big names that lost last night would still be here - Balls, Cable, etc. etc. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is of course debatable - personally I prefer STV with a local MP.

* or at least a PR system similar to the Spanish one that I'm familiar with.

5thElefant - Member

UKIP voter? They're the only party who would have benefited.

You don't have to benefit to want to fix an undemocratic and broken system. I'm an SNP voter and I want it fixed, nobody has more to lose than us but it is fundamentally wrong.

it is fundamentally wrong.

I disagree - the current system has a lot to recommend it: local MPs, no unaccountable party lists, stable governments. To say it is [i]fundamentally[/i] wrong is an exaggeration.

BNP votes have gone from 564,331 in 2010 to just 1,667 (with almost all of the seats declared)

BNP vote reduced by a bit. And by a bit, I mean 99.7%

Because they're all now sheltering under the banner of the new racist party - UKIP 😕

I have to agree, FPTP is wrong, the Tories had an opportunity to fix it, or rather they were forced to consider it anyway, picked the WORSE alternative option they could fine and they trashed the idea of it - it's not coming back in this parliament.

It's all too easy to shout for PR, but it's a catch-all name for a vast array of methods - how would we do it?

Would anyone be happy voting for their local MP, their chosen candidate winning more votes than all the others, only to find that nationally their party didn't do very well so the government can parachute in an unelected MP to look after your local issues.

OR do we simply just vote for one party and EVERY MP has to come from the party that got the most votes - can you imagine a Tory MP in West Belfast or Glasgow - or worse the Commons being entirely populated by one party - it would make the PM a de-facto dictator.

For me it's not about moaning about how bad FPTP is, but shouting for the best method whatever that might be.

On a more personal and completely selfish level, Wales had a massive shift to the Tories last night, and my constituency went that way, but it's still a very marginal seat - for many years the Tories would usual win next to sod all seats in Wales, so they gave no shits about us - why divert infrastructure or resources away from England into Wales when whatever you do, they won't vote for you - well, they think we might now.

Sancho - Member
...On the downside the SNP will be non stop trying to get a new referendum. And will start banging on about legitimacy etc etc.

They won't need to.

Cameron will fix the first past the post problem and his narrow majority by giving Scotland full devolution, thus removing 56 pesky SNP members.

Would anyone be happy voting for their local MP, their chosen candidate winning more votes than all the others, only to find that nationally their party didn't do very well so the government can parachute in an unelected MP to look after your local issues.

I've voted in 4 general elections in 4 different constituencies - in a country where people are more mobile than they've ever been before the notion of local MPs seems to me to be less important than it was in the past. There are huge and important demographics in the UK which will never have representation because they aren't significantly geographically distributed.

5thElefant - Member

You're kidding. Crossing the border into Wales is like fitting new suspension.

No, sorry you've lost me - in what respect?

Well I got pretty much what I wished for.

I wanted to see the SNP wipe out the Labour Party in Scotland. Done.

I wanted the Labour Party consigned to the dustbin of history were it belongs, well we're one step closer.

I wanted the LibDems to pay a terrible price for their betrayal to their former voters. Only in my dreams could I have expected them to get hammered to the extent they did.

I called Nick Clegg becoming leader of the LibDems the greatest political disaster in recent British political history. Exactly 5 years ago the day after the last general election I started a thread on here calling that he be sacked as LibDem leader, that was before he had even announced a coalition with the Tories. This election I said that I wanted Nick Clegg to retain his seat so that he would have the humiliation of leading a handful of pointless impotent LibDems. And then spend the next 5 years sitting on the back benches instead of sliding off to take up a job as EU Commissionaire or such like.

I said I would be very happy if the Green Party managed to achieve 5% of the vote, we don't know the final result but that seems fairly likely.

As someone strongly against the EU I have long wanted a referendum, that now looks fairly certain.

With all that comes a couple of added bonuses which I didn't expect. Firstly Ed Balls has lost his seat. Ed Balls more than anyone else I see responsible for Labour's ridiculous attempts to ape the Tories. How some right-wingers hate him with so much passion is beyond me. I have a fairly universal dislike for all Tories but those more on left of the party I tend to dislike less - it seems abundantly logical to me.

Then there is Vince Cable losing his seat, I wasn't expecting that and I am seriously chuffed. For me the LibDems are utterly discredited but no LibDem more so than Vince Cable. When Gordon Brown was PM Vince Cable constantly chastised Labour from a fairly left-wing perspective for insufficient government intervention during the credit crises and demanded greater spending. After the last general election and as soon as a coalition with the Tories was announced Vince Cable preformed a spectacular political somersault, like the Tories, and denounced, from a right-wing perspective, the previous Labour government for allegedly overspending.

And of course UKIP did worse than everyone including me expected. Without the man who knows how to smile and hold a pint their support can only go down. Although I expect Farage will continue to use every opportunity to get his arse in every TV studio possible, and quite likely look for a byelection to contest.

Conversely I am tinged with sadness that Charles Kennedy lost his seat - a good man who as party leader had a positive effect on British politics imo but was sadly let down by his dependency problem. And I am very nearly sad that Simon Huges has lost his seat.

Of course the big negative is five more years of a Conservative government more right-wing than Thatcher, that's nothing to celebrate - they will continue to screw the British people and the UK economy. But depending how they play it there could be huge political and social upheavals, eg, protest movements on par with the anti-poll tax movement. And political vacuums, such as the one left by the Labour Party's complete inability to oppose, tend to be eventually filled.

A Tory majority in face of total SNP dominance in Scotland is also likely to lead closer to the break up of the UK, probably not a huge concern for the Tories but almost certainly a serious concern to voters.

It would appear that the Tories have received about a third of the votes on a two thirds turnout. I have no wish to put a spin on it, it is an excellent result for them even if it is less than any Tory government has received for decades - probably going back to the 1970s I would have thought.

But it does show that a substantial majority of the British people did not vote for a Tory government. Which is not a problem of course - that's usually the case. Unless they pursue policies which become deeply unpopular, then it can become a very serious problem.

We'll see how things play out but we are potentially in a dangerous situation, imo.

.

And well done Stoner for your correct prediction. It seems the drop in UKIP support greatly helped the Tories. A bad day for the pollsters, although they did appear to have been right about the level of SNP support and the collapse of the LibDem vote. They were a couple of points out with UKIP.

ernie_lynch - Member
...Conversely I am tinged with sadness that Charles Kennedy lost his seat - a good man who as party leader had a positive effect on British politics imo but was sadly let down by his dependency problem...

He lost his seat because he betrayed his electorate.

He is a good man, and his alcohol habit is a tragedy. I was sorry to vote against him.

ernie_lynch - Member

Well I got pretty much what I wished for...........................

We'll see how things play out but we are potentially in a dangerous situation, imo.

I take it you like living dangerously ernie? 🙂

I am a bit saddened to see Charles Kennedy lost his seat as well.
Also I had a lot of time for Douglas Alexander, although the people of Paisley seem to think otherwise. A steep learning curve in store for Mhairi Black at just 20 years old!

[quote=Stoner ]No green surge elsewhere though.

They got over 5 times as many votes here. How would you describe that?

It's been a really good reminder that the loud and shouty side of social media and online discussion is more left than the general population.

Is it a positive that at least 66% voted? Not sure

....he betrayed his electorate.

But less so than many others in his party. He tried to distant himself from the coalition, other than resign from his party I can't see that he could have done a whole lot more.

I am tinged with sadness that Charles Kennedy lost his seat, he certainly was one of the least deserving LibDem to lose his seat.

ernie_lynch - Member
"...he betrayed his electorate."
But less so than many others in his party. He tried to distant himself from the coalition, other than resign from his party I can't see that he could have done a whole lot more.

He could have spoken out more. That may have saved his seat, but he was tarred with the brush of the vile methods used by the anti-referendum Unionists.

The Government have had their majority slashed to very fragile number.

Hang on, did I miss something?

Last time round the cons had to form a coalition with lib dem, this time even labour + the snp didn't force a coalition.

Seems like the majority was actually increased.

It's been a really good reminder that the loud and shouty side of social media and online discussion is more left than the general population.

Alternatively negative campaigning and fear leads to people voting to the right of their true political position.

Well the coalition had a stronger majority than the Tories do now, how much did the Lib Dems effect things? We'll soon see.

Positive spin:

Over 50% of voters in Scotland voted [b]against[/b] the SNP!

Over 50% of voters in Scotland voted against the SNP!

Did they? Didn't realise that. Interesting, maybe another yes / no vote wouldn't go all SNP's way...

Another plus point, With stability over the Tory government, people are more confident with spending money (or at least my clients are). So that means I can keep 120 employees, from factory cleaners to sales guys fully employed. So that's the ordinary guy in the street befitting from a Tory government. I think that's something that'll be played out thousands of times all over the country.

Tinybits.

Thats the best positive thing I have heard anyone say. 🙂

Good on yer

I got three times more votes than Al Murray 🙂

Al fires himself from the Labour Party

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32692668

ninfan - Member
Positive spin:

Over 50% of voters in Scotland voted against the SNP!

That's wrong. SNP share was 50.1%

people are more confident with spending money

So people only really like spending their money when there's a Tory government ?

What do people do when there is a Labour government - save all their money waiting for the Tories to turn up ?

I guess that in 2010 after 13 years of Labour governments people went on a spending spree, Tesco sales must have gone through the roof - what with people stocking up with things that they had resisted buying for the previous 13 years.

Don't more people actually vote for independence than voted for the SNP?

I'm not sure that turnout is a valid point THM, unless you can explain why it might be.

[quote=WackoAK ]

ninfan - Member
Positive spin:
Over 50% of voters in Scotland voted against the SNP!

Nope, 49.97%

What do people do when there is a Labour government - save all their money waiting for the Tories to turn up?

No, they don't have any money.

As a poor person, having a job and more money in my pocket (less tax) under the Tories puts me in a much better position to contribute to society. 🙂