[Closed] Posit: Facebook isn't everything

Pish rant.

Facebook is great, I can manipulate it to only see things I'm interested in, pretty much no other form of media is as controllable.

Apart from the odd advert, it's all relevant.

Websites ain't cheap for businesses, and take a lot of work.

I am but one. Yet those companies have lost my business due to being both tight and narrow-minded.

They can't help it if you are narrow minded.

You wrote ‘an FB’ not ‘a FB’. Please tell me you’re not pronouncing it eff-bee...

I primarily use FB for the groups (hobby and work). So much better than anything that’s been available before (possibly excluding here 😉)

The fact that people tend to check FB fairly often means you can have a knowledgeable answer to your query in minutes. Lots of groups I use have thousands of members... how many specialist technical forums have that many members (who actually log in often to check them)?

We have a shop website. There is no way on earth that I would be able to alter its content.
Even a dimwit like me can post a picture on face book.

It’s great for vaccine efficacy research.

And occasional running update bollocks from people in Scotland who I keep forgetting to mute.

FB is a cesspit. Just because you've decorated your corner of the cesspit how you like it doesn't make it not a cesspit.

I held off for years and joined in 2018 due to the gym I was using advertising classes, seminars etc on FB only. Once I reverted to my natural sloth like state I deleted it. Just didn’t appeal to me at all and had no other uses for it. Never thought of it from a purchasing goods and services perspective, but meh, I’ve not come across a situation where I can’t get something because of it.

I love the net, I really do.

FB is just toxic though. Can't stand it. It played a big part in Brexit and in Trumps election to President (along with Twitter obvs). That's reason enough for me and I'll never be convinced otherwise.

I can't wait till social media is regulated to the bollox.

Any business looks to the maximum audience possible and while Facebook isn't everything it's a huge audience.

Facebook presence is important but so is twitter but that works more as a support option, even if you have to deal with a lot of garbage and abuse. Those companies that use twitter well provide better support through it than via phone and email. Facebook far less so, but a lack of FB presence can be negative.

Ps IRC is for luddites 😏

According to a certain trousermonger, revenue is pretty much directly related to FB ad spend.

Seems a pretty efficient place to do business tbh

100% agree.

I gave up Facebook about 4 years ago (and my life is better as a result), so any businesses that have no online presence apart from Facebook won’t get any business from me.

It’s not only that I won’t be able to contact them, it’s also that I don’t see why a private business would align itself so closely with Facebook which is (IMO) a real stain on the world. They’re like the 2020 Nestlé.

Those businesses might be OK with losing my custom. I guess I’m in a minority, but I get the impression that the minority is growing. #deletefacebook

If you’re running a business then Friendface is a damn site more use to you than a website.

You can tailor and target your advertising to people who are looking for exactly the services you’re offering

And the most important thing is that you’re effectively having an interactive conversation. It’s a two way street that is great for building relationships

You’d have to absolutely off your head not to be fully utilising social media for your business

No amount of website SEO will give you the results that social media will. It won’t even get close unless you Chuck serious money at it. Facebook advertising is cheap as chips and it works.

To be honest, I consider updating my website as a bit of a chore. I update my social media all the time, because I get instant feedback which is actually enjoyable

It’s not all self-interest either. It allows you to get involved with local charities and such through groups and do some promotions to do a bit of good too

Spend a few quid on an actual website and stop ostracising people for the sake of a few quid.

I take it that you’re extending this to placing press advertisements in the local paper, yeah?

It’s a shame so much has moved to FB groups, just because they tend to be unsearchable for outsiders. About 99% of my Facebook use is groups and there’s a lot (like the one for my weird imported car) where the knowledge isn’t anywhere else. At least in the old days of forums you might hit a useful post with a Google search.

Anyone who’s tried to run their own forum will know why though. Facebook saves you all the time, techy knowledge and expense, and also offloads a lot of the liability too.

Why do we need the internet or phones, business managed without those previously. Although it would have made trying to  find a copy of Fly Fishing a lot more difficult.

At best Facebook is part of an online advertising duopoly that is finally getting set about by regulators for their anti competitive behaviour.

It is possible to create a "nice" corner of facebook for yourself. For you that might be loads of bike and woodwork stuff, for someone else it's knitting and for someone else it's brexit and for the next person it's all ER groups. Everyone's happy except we are all experiencing an increasingly divergent view of reality where we can't agree on any basic facts anymore. The impact on social cohesion seems fairly apparent.

Their role in the 2016 Myanmar Genocide is a scandal and they should never have been able to brush that off. Get into bed with authoritarian regime > roll out facebook across country > make money > don't bother recruiting any native speakers so you have no way to moderate abuse > oops. They're still not cooperating with UN investigation into the genocide. Really I can't understand how the sort of folk who get angsty about palm oil and the carbon footprint of avocados accept facebook as fun and benign.

If a company gets all the business they want from one advertising media then why look elsewhere?

If I had a small retail business then I'd almost certainly base myself on Insta (and link through to FB) at the moment. It's an amazing way to advertise and spread word of your products.

It seems as though you have left Facebook 2 years ago but it lives on (rent free, as the say) in your head!

Really I can’t understand how the sort of folk who get angsty about palm oil and the carbon footprint of avocados accept facebook as fun and benign.

Whats the proportion of Facebook users that are aware of their role in Myanmar?

I always found it interesting just how frequently you see opinions online that view Facebook as a tool for subverting “misinformation” from established media, as far as I can tell in large part because they can find a channel that says what they want it to say. Brexit and the Scottish Indy Ref being two examples that spring to mind.

Anyway, it’s a toxic cesspit for me too. I’ve used it for both “leisure” and “work/advertising” purposes. And if my Mum and Dad wasn’t on it, and not 9hrs away, I’d not be.

To be honest, I consider updating my website as a bit of a chore. I update my social media all the time, because I get instant feedback which is actually enjoyable

This.
I have a website, Instagram and Facebook for my business.
I like Instagram the most, it's more visual-based imho and it's a great way to get what you do out there to people who would perhaps not ordinarily know that what you do exists.

My sister's business is actually coaching businesses in how to use social media and managing social media profiles for businesses.
She's obviously proffered advice to me on several occasions on what I can do. I generally don't push things on there though as although as a business, advertising what I do is obviously valuable, I have to say I absolutely detest being advertised to the entire time everywhere and through everything.
However, it's nice to share what you do and it's nice to get feedback on it from people you know, and people you don't.

It seems that many businesses believe that their entire customer base is on FB and that therefore an FB page is sufficient for their business.

That's wrong if they do of course, but it's an easy way of getting yourself out to a wider audience and in a far more efficient way than old school advertising. Running a business can be insanely busy and so perhaps folks naturally fall towards the least time consuming option, plus if it's working for them and sustaining their business, then why waste time anywhere else?

It seems as though you have left Facebook 2 years ago but it lives on (rent free, as the say) in your head!

And this of course https://theconversation.com/shadow-profiles-facebook-knows-about-you-even-if-youre-not-on-facebook-94804

I wouldn’t be on FB if it wasn’t for my running club, son’s football etc.

The other night my wife did a flower arranging thing remotely with some friends online (cause of COVID). Mrs FD doesn’t have FB

I had to join some flower shops fb page, add some of her friends, the next day I found my profile being shared by the company, random friend requests etc.

I then had to spend some time deleting everyone off, which made me feel awkward, even though i didn’t want these people in the first place!

I had to join some flower shops fb page, add some of her friends, the next day I found my profile being shared by the company, random friend requests etc.

I then had to spend some time deleting everyone off, which made me feel awkward, even though i didn’t want these people in the first place!

Well yeah, even Facebook doesn't know that you were letting your wife use your account for one evening.

It's a tool. Like a hammer, or bleach.  It can be very useful. It can also be misused.

The key is knowing whether you're drinking the bleach or being hit with the hammer. The trouble with Facebook is that the hammer often looks a lot like a cuddly puppy.

Whats the proportion of Facebook users that are aware of their role in Myanmar?

Whistleblower says she's got blood on her hands

I don't mind businesses using it as their Web page, but find it ignorant when they assume all their customers are logged in users.

Eg an mtb race organiser had to cancel on the day due to snow shutting the M6 (so 80% of the entrants couldnt get there). Did they put this on the front page? Or email the entrants? No. It went out as a fb message only visible to people that had said they were attending in the fb calendar.

Interesting Nick, but not actually an answer

@piemonster, sure, sorry It's early, now you've read that piece from a former FB worker, perhaps you'd be curious enough to find out more yourself...?

I'm pretty sure the FB didn't think it would end up in the place it's in now, but it's perfectly clear to anyone that it needs wrenching out of the hands of Zuckerberg, and controlled by people who aren't just interested in how much data(money) they can scam out of their users.

The key is knowing whether you’re drinking the bleach or being hit with the hammer.

Yep and that's fine for the posters on this thread but when you consider 80% of the people on Facebook (a low estimate) are going to be gullible and not too bright which is where the problem with it starts.

@eyestwice - is there a particular business you are referring to?

i am firmly in the 'FB is toxic' camp, especially from a non-business, social side of things. Along with instagram it has created a new breed of human that only does things for 'likes'. its a sorry state of affairs.

But i dont blame businesses for using the platform to share and promote themselves. Unfortunately they wont reach me! Death to FB 😛

I’m pretty sure the FB didn’t think it would end up in the place it’s in now, but it’s perfectly clear to anyone that it needs wrenching out of the hands of Zuckerberg, and controlled by people who aren’t just interested in how much data(money) they can scam out of their users.

Im still reading it through, so thank you for posting it.

Whats the proportion of Facebook users that are aware of their role in Myanmar?

Last YouGov survey indicated only 21% of people in the UK have a negative opinion of the company.

Which is amazing considering they profited from mass murder and still seem incapable on getting a handle on harmful misuse of their platforms.
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Binners sums it up for me:

Friendface is a damn site

Eg an mtb race organiser had to cancel on the day due to snow shutting the M6 (so 80% of the entrants couldnt get there). Did they put this on the front page? Or email the entrants? No. It went out as a fb message only visible to people that had said they were attending in the fb calendar.

Why is it Facebooks fault that the race organiser isn’t actually very organised?

I can’t believe I’m defending Facebook here, but talk about ‘shoot the messenger’?

It's funny how people talk about giving up FB like they've kicked a crack habit 🤣

I use it mostly for local groups and a friends and people I get on with at work. All locked down pretty much. If you leave your front door open, you'll get some weirdos coming in.

I sort of agree that you need both.  Like Binners says, it is super cheap and effective advertising but it's also not a great place to try and do a 'sell' as you can't really lay out any sort of story and there are too many other distractions around so difficult to keep people's attention very long.  We use it to drive people to our site instead.  I'm not really sure in the end we get more conversions than by any other method though.  It looks good in terms of clicks but not in terms of cash (I think, I haven't checked for a while.  I'll look again later)

edit: just did a quick check, we have 4x more website visitors from google than from facebook and 4x more of the google visitors go on to do something on the site.  Facebook is still valuable though so wouldn't give it up, I just wouldn't have it as the only method for a business

It’s funny how people talk about giving up FB like they’ve kicked a crack habit

The guy who invented the like button doesn't have admin access to install apps on his own phone because he knows how addictive social media is.

Sounds to me like you're currently the guy who just has a few lines of bugle through the day but it's not a problem, no no.

I use Facebook but rarely am taken by any of the adverts on there and face toyed with the idea of deleting it. However for hobby related groups, keeping in touch with actual real friends and family who over time have scattered around the world and cat memes it’s untouchable.

I’ve actually made some real actual friendships via some of the hobby groups as well. And admittedly spent more time than I should arguing with idiots 🙂

I do find it ironic that it’s a bunch of middle-aged men discussing Facebook use.

My teenage daughters and their generation wouldn’t be seen dead on it

I like Instagram the most, it’s more visual-based imho and it’s a great way to get what you do out there to people who would perhaps not ordinarily know that what you do exists.

And i get to make witty quips about used chewin gum on your chopping boards 😁.

I sacked off the facebook app years ago now. I still have an account for occasions where i need it but to be honest i find it pretty dire to use so i generally lose interest if its a business and go elsewhere not really a protest just i think a really crappy interface for businesses.

I do find it ironic that it’s a bunch of middle-aged men discussing Facebook use.

My teenage daughters and their generation wouldn’t be seen dead on it

So what you're saying is it's a dying platform only used by old, out-of-touch people? Sounds about right.

Why do we need the internet

The thing is… Facebook makes its money from breaking the openness of the WWW… which is fair enough… but we should have our eyes wide open to that. The OP seems to just be saying not to run your business or club as if everyone must use Facebook to engage with you. Which seems sensible… and… open.

giving up FB like they’ve kicked a crack habit

lots of social media is designed to fire up the same part of your brain as crack does, so for lots of folk, it’s exactly the same

So what you’re saying is it’s a dying platform only used by old, out-of-touch people? Sounds about right

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Well this is a funny old day, isn’t it? Me and you agreeing on something? 😉

When I analyse the FB stats of my advertising, virtually nobody under 35 engages with any of it, so I don’t bother with them any more.

I suspect that’s because as you go down the age groups a smaller and smaller percentage of people use it.

Or maybe younger people just think what I do is shit? Who knows? Probably a bit of both

Much better to aim it at pensioners, not least because they’re the only people who’ve got any money 😂

when you consider 80% of the people on Facebook (a low estimate) are going to be gullible and not too bright which is where the problem with it starts.

It's the same in the real world and always was.
Door to door salesmen, snake oil, hair restoring tonic etc.
This is the same but on t'internet.