While I agree with your point, this just makes you sound like [s]an old man[/s] a person who can think.
yossarian: "Lalalalala I'm not listening lalalalalala..." 🙄
Mike the CM spokesperson's gone a bit quiet, hasn't he?
Maybe he got fed up with all the hilarious comments and pictures. Or maybe he has a job that doesn't let him sit in front of a computer all day and he has better things to do with his evenings.
Flattered to be considered a 'spokesperson' even though I'm not, I'm simply expressing my own opinions. And it became apparent that I was needlessly arguing with people who are ignorant of certain facts, and who seem to permanently inhabit this forum, arguing constantly about everything, it seems. Having spent far too much of my day off last week posting on here, I find it staggering that some people have the time to spend so many hours on here, day in day out. Do you not have jobs? Can you not get out for a bike ride or do something more productive with your lives?
Good to see a few more open-minded people joining the discussion, including the person with a first-hand account of the events of that evening. Hopefully now we may see a little more objectivity on here, although I won't hold my breath.
I find it sad that what could have been an interesting and helpful debate simply became an excuse for some to vent their obvious frustrations and anger towards something they have little or no understanding of.
I accept that CM needs to have a more positive public image, and could do more to promote cycling in London. For this reason, I and I hope many others will be attending the next event. And I hope some people on here might be motivated enough to do the same. I am sure there will be others who will just say sat at their keyboards ranting at a world they don't understand, and not making any difference at all.
Open-minded = people who agree with me 😉
mikeconnor at the next CM ride
[img] 
[/img]
[i]I find it sad that what could have been an interesting and helpful debate simply became an excuse for some to vent their obvious frustrations and anger towards something they have little or no understanding of. [/i]
You're new here, aren't you? 😆
(Taking a break from packing boxes and watching th'Lympics on my day off....)
Good to see a few more open-minded people joining the discussion
They would be the ones that agree with you right ??
🙄
.
(beaten to it by BinnersTeeshirts.com)
it became apparent that I was needlessly arguing with people who are ignorant of certain facts
Yes but, any attempts on our part to extract from you these 'certain facts' of which we're seemingly all ignorant proved fruitless. Sitting there fervently typing "you don't understand!" doesn't help us understand any better, you know.
From what you've written on this thread it appears to me that you're more interested in playing the martyr card than helping to dispel any myths and misunderstandings. And from what everyone else has written, it'd seem that CM's collective outlook isn't wholly dissimilar.
So, useful thread. I've learned quite a bit about a group I'd previously not come across. In your closing comment ^^ you said you wanted to make a difference; in this respect, rest assured, you already have.
Yes but, any attempts on our part to extract from you these 'certain facts' of which we're seemingly all ignorant proved fruitless. Sitting there fervently typing "you don't understand!" doesn't help us understand any better, you know.
I have countered claims about the 'type' of person on CM rides, explained about how many of them are actively involved in campaigning for better provision for cyclists, and suggested people actually go along and find out for themselves. Others have posted their own experiences (good and bad). What more can we do to help you 'understand'?
So, useful thread. I've learned quite a bit about a group I'd previously not come across.
Without ever actually having been on a London CM ride. Maybe thet's what you need to do then. Go along, find out for yourself rather than simply reading about it online.
Some of the comments on here remind me of teenage times, when certain individuals were experts on sex. not because they'd actually done it, but because they'd read about it and seen pictures in magazines.
* Other cities (outside the M25) are available
Is the comparison between CM rides and teenage sex that they both started off with utopian visions of a wonderful life-affirming experience, but disappointingly ended up involving being roughly manhandled by men with large truncheons under an East London underpass?
No, the comparison was with the way you and some others seem to think. You appear to have missed the point somewhat. Unsurprisingly given the nature of some of your previous posts.
Are you what they call a 'Big Hitter' on here? You do seem to spend an amazing amount of time posting.
Missing the point = not agreeing with me
How can I agree with someone who is ignorant of certain facts about an issue? That would be like leaving a child to wet itself just because it says it doesn't need a wee, when in fact it does.
Go along, find out for yourself rather than simply reading about it online
Would rather not be arrested for going on a bike ride, so will have to politely decline the invitation.
Instead, I shall go on a bike ride.
Being ignorant of certain facts = not agreeing with me
What more can we do to help you 'understand'?
You could perhaps answer some of the questions I asked? Radical, I know.
The answers are already on this thread. you could perhaps try reading all the posts? Radical, I know.
Just for the record, I never actually agreed with him. My beef was with the "those kind of people" comments.
Before I got into this thread I thought CM were all ****s. Then I realised that I had never talked to anyone who had been on a CM ride and I thought "Why do I have such strong feelings about people I have never met. That's not like me."
Then I realised I had gotten caught up in the whole groupthink mindset and was basing my opinions on what others thought despite the fact no one had had any direct experience.
So, I'm reserving judgement until I've been on a ride. I suspect I'm going to end up thinking they're all ****s but at least afterwards I'll be able to say so with authority.
[img] http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQgVsMly29Qe5hI_G7aTtGwB9SChpE1PuM8af_-XpQ_MPtB7ZA7qs4AmLi2 [/img]
....to the power of sick?
Junkyard, good point well made.... However......
That's going to very small print if I'm going to fit all that on a Teeshirt 😉
I find those comments extremely rude and offensive, and totally unjustified. ?You accuse me of 'insulting' youm, yet you insinuate that I am under the influence of drugs, then abuse me simply for having a different opinion. Very sad.
And for this reason, i am done with this discussion other than with those who are capable of behaving in a respectful and intelligent manner. i think some of you really let yourselves down with your behaviour on this forum, and whilst you accuse others of giving cyclists a bad name, you yourselfs do nothing to create a positive image for your sport.
Goodbye.
Mike your first post on return was nothing more than insults accusing of us being closed minded etc
It is clear you dont like being insulted, lets be honest who would.
I hope I have demonstrated it is not an effective way to address folk or to win over hearts and minds
I dont think those things about you or anyone it was to prove a point
If you irritate folk with a CM rally or by harsh/insulting words...they dont want to listen to what you have to say
He's not just let himself down Mike, he's let the school down, his mum and dad. In fact... all of us
[img] 
[/img]
And he's going to get a damn good thrashing 😀
you yourself do nothing to create a positive image for your sport.
I know I don't. I turn up at work, in all weathers, even if its lashing down, or really really cold, after my 15 mile commute, soaking wet or freezing, when there's a perfectly good car parked at home. Thus confirming to normal people that cyclists are all, at best, well... mindly deranged.
Then I go out riding in the dark (not around the Olympic village - I'm not that 'core') and turn up at the pub caked in mud, usually soaking wet again, grinning like a maniac. Apparently this is a very odd thing for a grown-up to be doing, and further reinforces the earlier impression that cyclists are absolutely barking mad!
Sorry 🙁
JY, the irony was a "bit clumsy" and harsh for a new boy to understand. Old timers with experience of locking swords got it, but it did take a couple of seconds!!!! Lucky to escape the naught step there I reckon! 😉
And for this reason, i am done with this discussion other than with those who are capable of behaving in a respectful and intelligent manner.
Mike,
Why did CM act against a polite police ruling? I am not discussing the legality of their ruling. 'Because we can' is a good enough answer - but why did CM act in defiance of the Police instead of working with the Police? What did they gain?
*Whoooosh*
That was Junky's comment on the last page going right over Mike's head!
The police ruling was a 'request', not an order. From what i've heard, those who attended the ride did not see why they should obey what they believed to be an unreasonable request. It wasn't about acting 'in defiance' against police, it was more about the police not working with CM interests. Most people just wanted to watch the opening ceremony fireworks. the whole area was flooded with people doing just that. There really does not seem to be the claimed attempt to 'disrupt' the opening ceremony at all, in fact quite the opposite. but that's just what I've heard from those who were there. Maybe i should listen to people sitting behind keyboards in places like manchester instead; obviously they appear to know better.
I think the police were under enormous pressure to prevent any possible embarrassing disruptions. Sadly, they acted in a completely disproportionate manner. I would not blame the individual officers on the ground, but the senior officers giving orders. It's not the first time they've got things wrong, to be honest, is it?
In my opinion, the police were provocative in issuing an unlawful 'order' or 'request' (see how things can get mixed up depending on how you word them? 'Protest', 'procession'?). I cannot see why they wanted to prevent a group of cyclists from wanting to do what thousands of others were doing. Other than for political reasons. Which simply aren't good enough. Th epolice do not make the Laws, they are merely there to uphold them. The riders broke no laws by rding near the olympic park, so why were they arrested?
I wait to see what trumped up charges people might be charged with, if at all. i suspect the vast majority will simply walk away without any charge at all. i also suspect a fair number will seek action against the police.
All in all, I hope a better and more positive solution is found. Which is why i've decided to get involved, rather than waste time trying to discuss things with people on an internet forum.
It wasn't about acting 'in defiance' against police, it was more about the police not working with CM interests.
FFS!!! Are you 12 years old? Are you familiar with the real world, as experienced by the rest of society? You were told you could go anywhere you damn well pleased, apart from one single place? So you went straight there. In what way is that - in your words - not acting 'in defiance' against police?
I'll tell you what. I'm reappraising my age guess. Are you 5 years old? Thats the kind of behavior you expect from a small child
And anyway: Why on earth should the Met act in CM's interests? On possibly their busiest evening in peacetime? When CM set out with the clearly stated aim of disrupting things? Seriously? Oh, I'm sorry.... is this further evidence of the 'police state' we're living in. Grow up, you melon!
And anyway.... if they'd let you have your protest/celebration*, should they let the Muslim Brotherhood? The EDL? With the anti-nazi league to hold a counter-rally? Anyone else?
I cannot see why they wanted to prevent a group of cyclists from wanting to do what thousands of others were doing. Other than for political reasons.
Oh dear. Is that narcissistic delusional sense of self-importance again. Do you really think that on the run up to the Olympics, that Call-me-Dave is sat fretting about you lot. Dear god! Get a grip!!! 😆
* we're still unclear on which this is since you change it constantly depending on which point you're trying to make
Requesting 200 / 500 / 1000 (depending on which source you believe) cyclists to not go to a "sensitive area" is not provocative.
Whether that is lawful or unlawful is irrelevant... [u]IF[/u] the CM ride is "just a ride".
Not obeying a request, with mass numbers of people, saying "we have the right" [u]IS[/u] provocative.
CM is there to "celebrate cycling"... so celebrate it. Give cycling a good positive image. If they'd gone where they did in June or September, there'd probably have been no problems. They went where they did, on the 1 day it could have been a problem, in defiance.
edit: and similarly those CM bloggers not initially present, but seeing tweets online, that then decided they had to go an join in is also provocative.
Maybe i should listen to people sitting behind keyboards in places like manchester instead; obviously they appear to know better.
Oh... I'm frightfully sorry. I forgot that we're not allowed an opinion in the provinces. Its a shame you've taken that tone, as prior to that you hadn't come across as remotely self-righteous, patronising or condescending 🙄
I did not say you are not allowed an opinion, just that if you post one based on little or no knowledge and experience of a fact, you will not be taken seriously, and seen as ignorant. Your views will be challenged and shown to be invalid. That's how debate works. if you don;'t like the rules, don't play the game.
If I came up with a load of bull about Manchester, i've no doubt you'd shoot me down in flames. Why do you expect any different when the situation is reversed?
The answers are already on this thread. you could perhaps try reading all the posts? Radical, I know.
Oddly, I've read all seventeen pages, including this one where you've said twice now that you you're leaving and have better things to do than discuss things with people behind keyboards on an Internet forum.
Could you show me where you answered [url=singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/police-kettling-cyclists-outside-olympic-opening/page/7#post-4029250http://]this question[/url] please?
Thanks for allowing me an opinion. Even if it is invalid, as are any other opinions or views that don't coincide with yours, it appears.
Which view do you lean towards politically Mike, out of interest? Trotsky or Marx?
Requesting 200 / 500 / 1000 (depending on which source you believe) cyclists to not go to a "sensitive area" is not provocative.
It is if no good reason is given, and people are told thay cannot exercise their legal rights. Let or Hindrance.
Why on earth should the Met act in CM's interests?
Because the people on CM rides are citizens like any other, and he Law must be applied equally and without prejudice. Did the police ban taxi drivers or anyone else from driving near the venue?
So far, I have yet to see adequate justification by the police for their actions. i doubt we ever will, somehow.
Comparing CM to the EDL etc is just laughable, quite frankly. I can't take such nonsense seriously.
So I need to move back to London to have an opinion?
But one person who was not at the ride is allowed an opinion?
those who attended the ride did not see why they should obey what they believed to be an unreasonable request.
That's the crux. Either they heed the request and stay away, or ignore the request. Like I said, I'm not arguing the legality of CM or the Police's actions; I'm already convinced that the Met were heavy handed (Justified, legally, or otherwise, this isn't my beef).
It is clear however, that CM chose to act in the manner the Police didn't want them to. Once again, [i]this is fine and legal[/i]. However, I feel that this action dilutes the message behind CM. Instead of being a bike ride, it became about politics, rights and liberties. [i]Is this really what CM is about?[/i]
Instead of having a group to rally behind which is solely concerned with raising the profile of cycling, potential supporters see a wealth of political ideologies within CM which they can potentially disagree with. This weakens CMs support.
Whatcha reckon?
Not obeying a request, with mass numbers of people, saying "we have the right" IS provocative.
People exercising their legal right to do something is 'provocative'?
How bizarre.
They went where they did, on the 1 day it could have been a problem, in defiance.
No, they did what they always do on the last Friday of every month. Read up on CM for more information about this. That this day coincided with the Olympic opening ceremony is purely coincidental. that a group of people rode to a place near the venue to watch fireworks is purely up to them, not you, not the police, but they themselves. Neither you nor the police can tell them otherwise. It's as simple as that.
CM is there to "celebrate cycling"... so celebrate it. Give cycling a good positive image.
THIS
I suspect we all support your aims and all dislike your methods which are self defeating.
EDIT:
It is if no good reason is given, and people are told thay cannot exercise their legal rights. Let or Hindrance.
Keep fighting thr good fight to be an irritating arse wheneve ryou feel like it..I cannot see how that wont help cyclists
Why on earth should the Met act in CM's interests?
Because the people on CM rides are citizens like any other, and he Law must be applied equally and without prejudice. Did the police ban taxi drivers or anyone else from driving near the venue?
Plane drivers are not allowed.....what ither protest groups was allowed there? they did treat yuo the same you just want better treatement by pretending to not be a protest group
So far, I have yet to see adequate justification by the police for their actions. i doubt we ever will, somehow.
I doubt you ever will to but fopr very different reasons
Comparing CM to the EDL etc is just laughable, quite frankly. I can't take such nonsense seriously.
No one has the point was if you "celebrate" why cant they clebrate Englishness in their capital city on this night etc there ..its not aportest we are celebrating Englishness how can you infringe their rights etc
STW is there to "celebrate arguing"... so celebrate it. Give arguing a good positive image.
People exercising their legal right to do something is 'provocative'?How bizarre.
People attempting to promote cycling in a positive light, decide that exercising their rights and standing up against the machine of authority, while in possession of "bust cards", with legal advisers present, having revised their rights beforehand... is more important than promoting cycling in a positive light.
How bizarre.
People exercising their legal right to do something is 'provocative'?How bizarre.
I assume I can legitmately turn up at weddings funerals and BAr mitzvahs and hulr abuse at the participants all perfectly legally.
Is this not provaocative?
I mean I have the right to do this and screw them as if they think they have the right to bury their dead with respect, get married without being called a fat slag ...I HAVE RIGHTS AND YOURS DONT COUNT ?
Comparing CM to the EDL etc is just laughable, quite frankly. I can't take such nonsense seriously.
Permission to have an opinion please Mike?
Ahem.... I'll voice it anyway.... If the Police allow you to [s]act like a bunch of naughty schoolboys[/s] exercise your democratic right to protest/celebrate*, then they would surely then have to allow the EDL to host a celebration of short haircuts and tattoos? Or for the Muslim Brotherhood to hold a celebration of great big beards, and lovely long flowing white gowns? Or pretty much anyone else, who wants to 'celebrate' anything at all really? That's how democracy works, isn't it?
Or are you saying that YOU should be allowed to do what you like, but everyone else can't as they're not entitled to an opinion either? As it differs from yours
This last bit seems to sum up your attitude to everyone and everything really
* we've still not resolved which it is, have we?
And for this reason, i am done with this discussion
yaay
[img]
[/img]
other than with those who are capable of behaving in a respectful and intelligent manner.
ahhh booo
[img]
[/img]
Permission to have an opinion please
Sorry, not possible.
Activists and ideologists don't have opinions... only facts. Therefore everyone else is wrong 😉
Most people just wanted to watch the opening ceremony fireworks.
I'm sorry..... But ...... Balls ! Just that...... Complete Balls.
There really does not seem to be the claimed attempt to 'disrupt' the opening ceremony at all, in fact quite the opposite. but that's just what I've heard from those who were there. Maybe i should listen to people sitting behind keyboards in places like manchester instead; obviously they appear to know better.
I was there, and as I said earlier......
What I saw (first hand) where a load of people purposefully blocking busy junctions for no other reason than to antagonise motorists.
If they wanted to see the bloody fireworks, how would that have helped them achieve their goal.
It does seem like the claimed "goal" of this event changes daily by the way.
Is it a protest (against whatever)
Is it a "celebration of cycling
Or is it a lovely trip out to watch some fireworks.
For what it's worth, I watched the fireworks and they were awesome.
And all I did to achieve that, was act in a responsible adult manner.
At one stage in fact, a Volunteer Gamesmaker in a purple uniform asked me to walk on the other side of the path as it was a bit busy.
Didn't even cross my mind to argue my rights as a citizen to walk wherever I wanted as I live in a free country.
I just smiled and did as I was asked. And in doing so, I got to watch the fireworks, rather than getting arrested for acting like a juvenile muppet.
